Child Arrangements Order - defining contact by text message?
Discussion
A quick question that I'm sure has a long answer... lol
In a Child Arrangements Order, how have people here set out contact with the other parent by mobile phone / text / WhatsApp etc?
The current Order sets out contact by telephone / videocall, but I'm struggling to get my head round how one might best seek to integrate some form of defined arrangement around text messaging / WhatsApp...
The fear is that the other party will, once they are aware a text messaging facility exists, use it to maintain constant contact with the child in question, even on the days that no face-to-face or telephone / videocall contact is set out.
If this was a 'normal' person we were talking about, there'd be no worries - but there is strong potential for the child to never have a break from the constant grilling for information and the emotional manipulation that they have previously endured, which would undo all the progress that has been made while they have had much-restricted contact over the past few months.
If anyone has any template wording or any recommendations, I would be extremely appreciative, thank you!
In a Child Arrangements Order, how have people here set out contact with the other parent by mobile phone / text / WhatsApp etc?
The current Order sets out contact by telephone / videocall, but I'm struggling to get my head round how one might best seek to integrate some form of defined arrangement around text messaging / WhatsApp...
The fear is that the other party will, once they are aware a text messaging facility exists, use it to maintain constant contact with the child in question, even on the days that no face-to-face or telephone / videocall contact is set out.
If this was a 'normal' person we were talking about, there'd be no worries - but there is strong potential for the child to never have a break from the constant grilling for information and the emotional manipulation that they have previously endured, which would undo all the progress that has been made while they have had much-restricted contact over the past few months.
If anyone has any template wording or any recommendations, I would be extremely appreciative, thank you!
RSTurboPaul said:
A quick question that I'm sure has a long answer... lol
In a Child Arrangements Order, how have people here set out contact with the other parent by mobile phone / text / WhatsApp etc?
The current Order sets out contact by telephone / videocall, but I'm struggling to get my head round how one might best seek to integrate some form of defined arrangement around text messaging / WhatsApp...
The fear is that the other party will, once they are aware a text messaging facility exists, use it to maintain constant contact with the child in question, even on the days that no face-to-face or telephone / videocall contact is set out.
If this was a 'normal' person we were talking about, there'd be no worries - but there is strong potential for the child to never have a break from the constant grilling for information and the emotional manipulation that they have previously endured, which would undo all the progress that has been made while they have had much-restricted contact over the past few months.
If anyone has any template wording or any recommendations, I would be extremely appreciative, thank you!
Theres no need to make it over complicated.In a Child Arrangements Order, how have people here set out contact with the other parent by mobile phone / text / WhatsApp etc?
The current Order sets out contact by telephone / videocall, but I'm struggling to get my head round how one might best seek to integrate some form of defined arrangement around text messaging / WhatsApp...
The fear is that the other party will, once they are aware a text messaging facility exists, use it to maintain constant contact with the child in question, even on the days that no face-to-face or telephone / videocall contact is set out.
If this was a 'normal' person we were talking about, there'd be no worries - but there is strong potential for the child to never have a break from the constant grilling for information and the emotional manipulation that they have previously endured, which would undo all the progress that has been made while they have had much-restricted contact over the past few months.
If anyone has any template wording or any recommendations, I would be extremely appreciative, thank you!
Theres an order that sets out video/telephone contact at certain specified times, thats what you stick to. Why didn't this question cone up when requesting the order?
Purchase a second device, and use that.
Follow the Order and confirm to the other parent that it will be switched on and ready, at the times described in the order.
If you use whatsapp or messenger, linking to your ‘phone, for video calling, its easy to switch of ‘message forwarding’ so that the second device doesn't receive messages or texts, nor send them. However, you still receive them on the primary device.
However, make it clear that if the child wishes to speak with the other parent, at any time, don't refuse. Just monitor.
Alternatively, be overcomplicated....
Go for a variation. £250 a pop plus Court fees. Find some lovely wording and drop £5k on a problem that doesn't exist.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 01:39
TVR1 said:
Theres no need to make it over complicated.
Theres an order that sets out video/telephone contact at certain specified times, thats what you stick to. Why didn't this question cone up when requesting the order?
Purchase a second device, and use that.
Follow the Order and confirm to the other parent that it will be switched on and ready, at the times described in the order.
If you use whatsapp or messenger, linking to your ‘phone, for video calling, its easy to switch of ‘message forwarding’ so that the second device doesn't receive messages or texts, nor send them. However, you still receive them on the primary device.
However, make it clear that if the child wishes to speak with the other parent, at any time, don't refuse. Just monitor.
Alternatively, be overcomplicated....
Go for a variation. £250 a pop plus Court fees. Find some lovely wording and drop £5k on a problem that doesn't exist.
Many thanks for your reply Theres an order that sets out video/telephone contact at certain specified times, thats what you stick to. Why didn't this question cone up when requesting the order?
Purchase a second device, and use that.
Follow the Order and confirm to the other parent that it will be switched on and ready, at the times described in the order.
If you use whatsapp or messenger, linking to your ‘phone, for video calling, its easy to switch of ‘message forwarding’ so that the second device doesn't receive messages or texts, nor send them. However, you still receive them on the primary device.
However, make it clear that if the child wishes to speak with the other parent, at any time, don't refuse. Just monitor.
Alternatively, be overcomplicated....
Go for a variation. £250 a pop plus Court fees. Find some lovely wording and drop £5k on a problem that doesn't exist.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 01:39
I'm being a McKenzie Friend for a chap representing himself because he has no money.
The current Order is an interim pending a Final Hearing.
Getting something written within the Final Order that defines things exactly and means contact is not wide open to abuse / circumvention is the ideal outcome.
Contact is currently via wifi tablet device so no text messaging (AFAIK). I believe Zoom is being used (as a free, non-paid account), so no call duration logs or other records seem to be available. This is very convenient for the other party because they are manipulative and secretive and trying to control / mentally abuse the child for their own benefit. (A narcissist, basically.)
The child does not have a mobile 'phone but might start walking to school, so getting one for that situation would mean text messaging would be possible from the other party.
We think a risk is that the other party will try to claim contact is being restricted if text messaging becomes technically available but the child is not immediately responsive - even if contact is sought outside of scheduled video/telephone call times.
As a related example, we expect that if we can show abuse of the current telephone/videocall timeslots (i.e. gross exceedances of the specified time limits) the other party will just claim it is entirely the child's wishes and not the other party ignoring the Order currently set out.
The main worry, as already mentioned, is that if contact by text message becomes technically available 24/7 but is not specifically defined with the Final Order, therefore can't be 'managed' by the chap I am helping without claims of 'control' being made by the other side, there is a real risk the child will have to endure a constant stream of questions and manipulation - hence my asking if there's any recommended way to get defined text message contact within the forthcoming order.
Having it defined within this Final Order would also remove risk of the other side taking my chap back to court to get a variation to define it later.
(The other side pretty much attempt to get round anything not specifically defined.)
If it is possible to have a phone as a second phone on an account, or to forward whatsapp/Messenger contact to the second phone from the chap's phone, and be able to turn off call/message forwarding to the second phone, that is news to (luddite) me and could be useful.
We have looked at a duplicate phone on an account, to be able to review the other side's communications if there are worries, but such a phone would have things deleted off it if (for example) dubious text messages were deleted off the primary phone, making monitoring/safeguarding difficult.
As mentioned, all this covering-off 'just in case' scenarios would not be necessary if the other side was a normal human being interested in the child's welfare and able to exercise Parental Responsibility for the benefit of the child, but sadly they are a narcissist only concerned with being in control and winning at any cost (to the child and to their bank account).
For the zoom and telephone calls, why do you not send the session invite yourself? That way you can join the conversation yourself, but keep your microphone muted, and just listen to the conversation and record if necessary? Ditto with phone calls, call from your device to childs phone, then ex, and merge calls, and mute yourself (or use a house phone and simply stay on the line in another room). Because you're party to the calls then I think it's legal enough for you to record them.
If you catch the other party manipulating the child then I think its appropriate that you can then unmute yourself, and speak to them directly to remind them that that conduct is inappropriate. If they keep doing it, then you can apply to the courts to vary the order further - perhaps to contact via a contact center only where they will be supervised.
If you have to give the child a phone then you can of course have certain numbers blocked from that device, so they cannot call or text the other party from it. Indeed, I think you can set them up to only call certain numbers for children (though you'd probably need to buy an app to allow that). I'd suggest looking at Qustodio, it seems to do all that stuff plus limits screen time etc. Works best on 'droid too.
Honestly though, some Adults are unbelievable if you've got to go to these lengths, I really feel for you!
If you catch the other party manipulating the child then I think its appropriate that you can then unmute yourself, and speak to them directly to remind them that that conduct is inappropriate. If they keep doing it, then you can apply to the courts to vary the order further - perhaps to contact via a contact center only where they will be supervised.
If you have to give the child a phone then you can of course have certain numbers blocked from that device, so they cannot call or text the other party from it. Indeed, I think you can set them up to only call certain numbers for children (though you'd probably need to buy an app to allow that). I'd suggest looking at Qustodio, it seems to do all that stuff plus limits screen time etc. Works best on 'droid too.
Honestly though, some Adults are unbelievable if you've got to go to these lengths, I really feel for you!
Cyberprog said:
For the zoom and telephone calls, why do you not send the session invite yourself? That way you can join the conversation yourself, but keep your microphone muted, and just listen to the conversation and record if necessary? Ditto with phone calls, call from your device to childs phone, then ex, and merge calls, and mute yourself (or use a house phone and simply stay on the line in another room). Because you're party to the calls then I think it's legal enough for you to record them.
If you catch the other party manipulating the child then I think its appropriate that you can then unmute yourself, and speak to them directly to remind them that that conduct is inappropriate. If they keep doing it, then you can apply to the courts to vary the order further - perhaps to contact via a contact center only where they will be supervised.
If you have to give the child a phone then you can of course have certain numbers blocked from that device, so they cannot call or text the other party from it. Indeed, I think you can set them up to only call certain numbers for children (though you'd probably need to buy an app to allow that). I'd suggest looking at Qustodio, it seems to do all that stuff plus limits screen time etc. Works best on 'droid too.
Honestly though, some Adults are unbelievable if you've got to go to these lengths, I really feel for you!
Thanks for your reply! If you catch the other party manipulating the child then I think its appropriate that you can then unmute yourself, and speak to them directly to remind them that that conduct is inappropriate. If they keep doing it, then you can apply to the courts to vary the order further - perhaps to contact via a contact center only where they will be supervised.
If you have to give the child a phone then you can of course have certain numbers blocked from that device, so they cannot call or text the other party from it. Indeed, I think you can set them up to only call certain numbers for children (though you'd probably need to buy an app to allow that). I'd suggest looking at Qustodio, it seems to do all that stuff plus limits screen time etc. Works best on 'droid too.
Honestly though, some Adults are unbelievable if you've got to go to these lengths, I really feel for you!
Good ideas are noted - but, alas, the other side has made it clear that she refuses to be recorded for any reason. It's almost like she doesn't want there to be any sort of evidence trail...
This has meant the court orders to date have set out that conversations should be 'private' unless in an emergency. How a parent can know it's an emergency if they can't monitor communications, I don't know...
I will check out Qustodio, it might be a good option. Anything we can do to ensure the child is not exposed to 24/7 manipulation is a good thing!
RSTurboPaul said:
Thanks for your reply!
Good ideas are noted - but, alas, the other side has made it clear that she refuses to be recorded for any reason. It's almost like she doesn't want there to be any sort of evidence trail...
This has meant the court orders to date have set out that conversations should be 'private' unless in an emergency. How a parent can know it's an emergency if they can't monitor communications, I don't know...
I will check out Qustodio, it might be a good option. Anything we can do to ensure the child is not exposed to 24/7 manipulation is a good thing!
Ok, so the court's order would prevent recording. One suggestion would be to keep a log regarding these conversations, so after each contact you sit with your child and do a "debrief" - how do they feel, did they think their parent said anything that was wrong or controversial? Is there anything specific they wanted to tell you about the call etc, and log it down in a notebook.Good ideas are noted - but, alas, the other side has made it clear that she refuses to be recorded for any reason. It's almost like she doesn't want there to be any sort of evidence trail...
This has meant the court orders to date have set out that conversations should be 'private' unless in an emergency. How a parent can know it's an emergency if they can't monitor communications, I don't know...
I will check out Qustodio, it might be a good option. Anything we can do to ensure the child is not exposed to 24/7 manipulation is a good thing!
This would provide you with some more definitive evidence, still somewhat hearsay but probably the courts will listen to it if needed, if you can go into court and say "after 75% of contact interactions with $parent, $child felt upset" and back that up with notes from the time.
Cyberprog said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Thanks for your reply!
Good ideas are noted - but, alas, the other side has made it clear that she refuses to be recorded for any reason. It's almost like she doesn't want there to be any sort of evidence trail...
This has meant the court orders to date have set out that conversations should be 'private' unless in an emergency. How a parent can know it's an emergency if they can't monitor communications, I don't know...
I will check out Qustodio, it might be a good option. Anything we can do to ensure the child is not exposed to 24/7 manipulation is a good thing!
Ok, so the court's order would prevent recording. One suggestion would be to keep a log regarding these conversations, so after each contact you sit with your child and do a "debrief" - how do they feel, did they think their parent said anything that was wrong or controversial? Is there anything specific they wanted to tell you about the call etc, and log it down in a notebook.Good ideas are noted - but, alas, the other side has made it clear that she refuses to be recorded for any reason. It's almost like she doesn't want there to be any sort of evidence trail...
This has meant the court orders to date have set out that conversations should be 'private' unless in an emergency. How a parent can know it's an emergency if they can't monitor communications, I don't know...
I will check out Qustodio, it might be a good option. Anything we can do to ensure the child is not exposed to 24/7 manipulation is a good thing!
This would provide you with some more definitive evidence, still somewhat hearsay but probably the courts will listen to it if needed, if you can go into court and say "after 75% of contact interactions with $parent, $child felt upset" and back that up with notes from the time.
I think this could be worth doing, even if it's just a 'how was your call?' question to see if anything untoward is mentioned.
I don't know how the courts decide whether a log of incidents is genuine or not - what dealing with the other party in this situation has taught me is that some people live their entire lives lying and trying to construct situations that will benefit them in the long term!
RSTurboPaul said:
TVR1 said:
Theres no need to make it over complicated.
Theres an order that sets out video/telephone contact at certain specified times, thats what you stick to. Why didn't this question cone up when requesting the order?
Purchase a second device, and use that.
Follow the Order and confirm to the other parent that it will be switched on and ready, at the times described in the order.
If you use whatsapp or messenger, linking to your ‘phone, for video calling, its easy to switch of ‘message forwarding’ so that the second device doesn't receive messages or texts, nor send them. However, you still receive them on the primary device.
However, make it clear that if the child wishes to speak with the other parent, at any time, don't refuse. Just monitor.
Alternatively, be overcomplicated....
Go for a variation. £250 a pop plus Court fees. Find some lovely wording and drop £5k on a problem that doesn't exist.
Many thanks for your reply Theres an order that sets out video/telephone contact at certain specified times, thats what you stick to. Why didn't this question cone up when requesting the order?
Purchase a second device, and use that.
Follow the Order and confirm to the other parent that it will be switched on and ready, at the times described in the order.
If you use whatsapp or messenger, linking to your ‘phone, for video calling, its easy to switch of ‘message forwarding’ so that the second device doesn't receive messages or texts, nor send them. However, you still receive them on the primary device.
However, make it clear that if the child wishes to speak with the other parent, at any time, don't refuse. Just monitor.
Alternatively, be overcomplicated....
Go for a variation. £250 a pop plus Court fees. Find some lovely wording and drop £5k on a problem that doesn't exist.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 01:39
I'm being a McKenzie Friend for a chap representing himself because he has no money.
I’m simple terms, you’re (have already?) taking sides.
The point of a McKenzie friend is to act in the way a sensible lawyer would, absent funds to pay. (Although it seems McKenzie friends can charge for ‘expenses’)
With,
AND THIS IS THE REALLY IMPORTANT PART...
Some experience in the matter at hand.
Asking PH is not in my opinion, ‘having experience in these matters’
Not only are you going to be financially responsible for bad advice (I bet you didn’t know that?)
But you’re potentially going to inflame an already inflamed situation.
I prefer compromise. However much the parents want to ruin each other. It’s one of my only life’s accomplishments, thinking of the children first. I’d play with anyone, everywhere and anywhere,otherwise. (Look at my posting history)
Discuss with your friend. If you wish to do it, do it properly, don’t take sides.
For sure, be a McKenzie friend but remember, if you don’t do it properly and just think this is a way to ‘get one over’ on someone....
The Judge will ‘tell you to f
k off in 2 seconds’Your Mate will be on his own, and you’ll have a cheeky bill.
Best advice?
Look up McKenzie v McKenzie and try to understand how a McKenzie friend came about.
Don’t google or Wikki it. Thats the soft option.
Go onto bailie and sign up. Lots of things are public information.
Absorb yourself in the information.
Again, I apologise. My post before was just advice on how you can do it, not what you should try to advise.
And then....
When/if you feel inclined to read the actual case, please look at WHO was the ‘McKenzie Fiend’
BUT!!!!!!
AT ALL TIMES!!!!!!!
DO NOT FORGET,
It is THE CHILD.....
That will be the collateral DAMAGE.
Not you, not the 2 loony parents.
The CHILD.
If you wanna be a really McKenzie friend, be neutral.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:21
TVR1 said:
Apologies but you’re not being a McKenzie friend.
I’m simple terms, you’re (have already?) taking sides.
The point of a McKenzie friend is to act in the way a sensible lawyer would, absent funds to pay. (Although it seems McKenzie friends can charge for ‘expenses’)
With,
AND THIS IS THE REALLY IMPORTANT PART...
Some experience in the matter at hand.
Asking PH is not in my opinion, ‘having experience in these matters’
Not only are you going to be financially responsible for bad advice (I bet you didn’t know that?)
But you’re potentially going to inflame an already inflamed situation.
I prefer compromise. However much the parents want to ruin each other. It’s one of my only life’s accomplishments, thinking of the children first. I’d play with anyone, everywhere and anywhere,otherwise. (Look at my posting history)
Discuss with your friend. If you wish to do it, do it properly, don’t take sides.
For sure, be a McKenzie friend but remember, if you don’t do it properly and just think this is a way to ‘get one over’ on someone....
The Judge will ‘tell you to fk off in 2 seconds’
Your Mate will be on his own, and you’ll have a cheeky bill.
Best advice?
Look up McKenzie v McKenzie and try to understand how a McKenzie friend came about.
Don’t google or Wikki it. Thats the soft option.
Go onto bailie and sign up. Lots of things are public information.
Absorb yourself in the information.
Again, I apologise. My post before was just advice on how you can do it, not what you should try to advise.
And then....
When/if you feel inclined to read the actual case, please look at WHO was the ‘McKenzie Fiend’
BUT!!!!!!
AT ALL TIMES!!!!!!!
DO NOT FORGET,
It is THE CHILD.....
That will be the collateral DAMAGE.
Not you, not the 2 loony parents.
The CHILD.
If you wanna be a really McKenzie friend, be neutral. Many others here will respond. And may even PM you.
I need to go to bed so this will be a somewhat disjointed reply, so don't take that as anything other than being short on time! I’m simple terms, you’re (have already?) taking sides.
The point of a McKenzie friend is to act in the way a sensible lawyer would, absent funds to pay. (Although it seems McKenzie friends can charge for ‘expenses’)
With,
AND THIS IS THE REALLY IMPORTANT PART...
Some experience in the matter at hand.
Asking PH is not in my opinion, ‘having experience in these matters’
Not only are you going to be financially responsible for bad advice (I bet you didn’t know that?)
But you’re potentially going to inflame an already inflamed situation.
I prefer compromise. However much the parents want to ruin each other. It’s one of my only life’s accomplishments, thinking of the children first. I’d play with anyone, everywhere and anywhere,otherwise. (Look at my posting history)
Discuss with your friend. If you wish to do it, do it properly, don’t take sides.
For sure, be a McKenzie friend but remember, if you don’t do it properly and just think this is a way to ‘get one over’ on someone....
The Judge will ‘tell you to f
k off in 2 seconds’Your Mate will be on his own, and you’ll have a cheeky bill.
Best advice?
Look up McKenzie v McKenzie and try to understand how a McKenzie friend came about.
Don’t google or Wikki it. Thats the soft option.
Go onto bailie and sign up. Lots of things are public information.
Absorb yourself in the information.
Again, I apologise. My post before was just advice on how you can do it, not what you should try to advise.
And then....
When/if you feel inclined to read the actual case, please look at WHO was the ‘McKenzie Fiend’
BUT!!!!!!
AT ALL TIMES!!!!!!!
DO NOT FORGET,
It is THE CHILD.....
That will be the collateral DAMAGE.
Not you, not the 2 loony parents.
The CHILD.
If you wanna be a really McKenzie friend, be neutral. Many others here will respond. And may even PM you.
Point totally taken on the focus being the child.
All the submissions that I've helped with have kept the child as the focus, and we have avoided being drawn into petty squabbles about historic events between the parents that cannot be proven either way and bear no relation to the matters of concern now.
The chap I'm helping has offered to help the mother with the child when she might be struggling, and has offered mediation for the benefit of the child, so he would be totally fine with having a decent working relationship and putting the past behind him. Indeed, he does that day-to-day, focusing on what the child needs now, without trying to slag off the mother.
However, the mother is a narcissist. Her 'care' of the child to date has not been about the child and their wellbeing; it has been about control of all the situations she can control (and attempts on those she can't), manipulation of third parties to try to get the father viewed as a violent controlling man (ironic...), restrictions on the child seeing the father to seemingly punish the father, physical and mental abuse of the child so that he is too afraid to speak freely to anyone and reliant on her... and all without regard to the impacts on the child. These things have been recorded by external third parties, not the father, so it's not just wild unsubstantiated tit-for-tat claims.
So you will understand that it is hard to remain dead-centre neutral in such a situation... but I always remain as impartial as possible and have looked at the various submissions from both sides from their respective viewpoints, in order to ensure all aspects are considered and that the chap I'm helping can understand where the other party may well have a valid point.
I am confused re: your reference to a MF needing to 'act in the way a sensible lawyer would, absent funds to pay'.
My understanding is that a MF can provide assistance with paperwork, remind the person of things they might like to mention, take notes in court... as per the practice guidance note:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/JCO/Do...
PG said:
The Right to Reasonable Assistance
2) Litigants have the right to have reasonable assistance from a layperson, sometimes called a McKenzie Friend (MF). Litigants assisted by MFs remain litigants-in-person. MFs have no independent right to provide assistance. They have no right to act as advocates or to carry out the conduct of litigation.
What McKenzie Friends may do
3) MFs may: i) provide moral support for litigants; ii) take notes; iii) help with case papers; iii) quietly give advice on any aspect of the conduct of the case.
What McKenzie Friends may not do
4) MFs may not: i) act as the litigants’ agent in relation to the proceedings; ii) manage litigants’ cases outside court, for example by signing court documents; or iii) address the court, make oral submissions or examine witnesses.
None of the above extends as far as being an Advocate (paid or not) from my reading of it, and an MF cannot speak to the court (like an Advocate can) unless the Judge grants Right of Audience (which seems to be rare).2) Litigants have the right to have reasonable assistance from a layperson, sometimes called a McKenzie Friend (MF). Litigants assisted by MFs remain litigants-in-person. MFs have no independent right to provide assistance. They have no right to act as advocates or to carry out the conduct of litigation.
What McKenzie Friends may do
3) MFs may: i) provide moral support for litigants; ii) take notes; iii) help with case papers; iii) quietly give advice on any aspect of the conduct of the case.
What McKenzie Friends may not do
4) MFs may not: i) act as the litigants’ agent in relation to the proceedings; ii) manage litigants’ cases outside court, for example by signing court documents; or iii) address the court, make oral submissions or examine witnesses.
Is your meaning that an MF should consider both parties' arguments and reach a conclusion about the best way to proceed, then offer advice as to what the party being supported might be able to do?
I would argue that I have been doing that (see above) and I certainly am not aggressively pursuing my chap's interests, i.e. without consideration of the counter-arguments and the impacts on the child.
I don't understand how I would be financially responsible (liable) for bad advice - I am not giving advice in the manner an Advocate could, because I can't!
Can you provide examples where an MF has had costs awarded against them?
IIRC I did have a read of the summarised findings of McKenzie vs McKenzie - was it not that being an MF is about fairness in court, rather than being a 'free' Advocate?
As it’s late,
Here’s a fairly educational summary...
But don't just read the parts that suit you/your friend.
https://verycivilbarrister.co.uk/mckenzie-friend-o...
As before, I’d make a st Family Judge or Lawyer. I wouldn’t be as polite.
Here’s a fairly educational summary...
But don't just read the parts that suit you/your friend.
https://verycivilbarrister.co.uk/mckenzie-friend-o...
As before, I’d make a s
t Family Judge or Lawyer. I wouldn’t be as polite. Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:47
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:49
TVR1 said:
As it’s late,
Here’s a fairly educational summary...
But don't just read the parts that suit you/your friend.
https://verycivilbarrister.co.uk/mckenzie-friend-o...
As before, I’d make a st Family Judge or Lawyer. I wouldn’t be as polite.
Thank you for the link Here’s a fairly educational summary...
But don't just read the parts that suit you/your friend.
https://verycivilbarrister.co.uk/mckenzie-friend-o...
As before, I’d make a s
t Family Judge or Lawyer. I wouldn’t be as polite. Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:47
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:49
I offer you one in return!
https://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed1568
RSTurboPaul said:
TVR1 said:
As it’s late,
Here’s a fairly educational summary...
But don't just read the parts that suit you/your friend.
https://verycivilbarrister.co.uk/mckenzie-friend-o...
As before, I’d make a st Family Judge or Lawyer. I wouldn’t be as polite.
Thank you for the link Here’s a fairly educational summary...
But don't just read the parts that suit you/your friend.
https://verycivilbarrister.co.uk/mckenzie-friend-o...
As before, I’d make a s
t Family Judge or Lawyer. I wouldn’t be as polite. Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:47
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 12th September 00:49
I offer you one in return!
https://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed1568
But please note the bit about being too involved etc.
When you post ‘narcissistic, lunatic, abusive etc’ I think you’ve passed that threshold.
Step back and for sure, help your friend but don’t be sucked into ‘1 side of the story’.
No offence intended.
When I was going through my difficult times, a few friends offered to both ask their lawyers to help and fund it. It seems I’m a nice person! (Not that I see it) lawyer firms that hear about on the news etc.
I had a meeting in an outer chamber, just to see.
After an hours discussion, it wasn’t for me.
I would’ve won, for sure. But it would’ve been a hollow victory. I would’ve both ruined my wife and it would’ve forced my daughter to take sides.
I can’t blame wife. Relationships (ours) go through things that mostly you can’t recover from.
But, at all times, I made it clear to friends that as much as you wish to defend me, I always asked ‘is this going to help our daughter’
Be a good friend.
Tell him the truth.
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