Reducing Furlough Pay because of additional job???

[wsn03]

A teacher I know is on Furlough atm, private school. She has told the school out of courtesy that she is taking up a new out of hours part time job. It does not in any way affect her school role.
School are going to reduce her furlough pay.

Im struggling to see how that stacks up.

Anyone properly experienced in this particular area of furlough have any experience of this? Most HR departments I've ever dealt with know zero about employment law, and i expect this to be the case. As this one is however one of the most obnoxious, supremacist arrogant establishments on the planet, I'm very keen to see this teacher get the right outcome.

I usually find a letter with some big words sends HR bravados into retreat, but that is usually covering contract law which i had to study in great detail years ago.

However i have zero knowledge of the furlough scheme because I work for myself. Is this a legitimate thing they can do? Or are they taking the piss (she's foreign too so even easier pickings from anyone who needs a power trip)

[Pando99]

I have no expert knowledge but i remember at the start of furlough they were promoting people who were on furlough to get involved with a extra job of picking fruit etc on the farms with no loss of furlough

[rix]

I would guess it depends on the terms of her employment but I would guess the terms of her employment do not account for furlough!

Doesn't sound legit to me. Not sure how they would account for the claim eithet as its based on an average wage. I bet the school would be claiming for the full 80%...

[Leithen]

Have they been making up her salary to 100%, or paying her 80%?

You are aware that since August employers are paying ER NICs and since September the govt only 70%?

Are they reducing her wages to 80% from 100%?

More details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes...

[wsn03]

Pando99 said:

I have no expert knowledge but i remember at the start of furlough they were promoting people who were on furlough to get involved with a extra job of picking fruit etc on the farms with no loss of furlough

Yes you are absolutely correct, now you mention it I remember that being said in various forms. Thank you

[wsn03]

Leithen said:

Have they been making up her salary to 100%, or paying her 80%?

You are aware that since August employers are paying ER NICs and since September the govt only 70%?

Are they reducing her wages to 80% from 100%?

More details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes...

She was receiving 100%.
They said they are dropping it to 80%.

I have asked her to ask by email:
On what grounds are you reducing my furlough pay?"

If they refer to the change in government support I have told her to then ask:

"Are you applying this to all staff across the board or just me"

Appreciate your information

[wsn03]

rix said:

I would guess it depends on the terms of her employment but I would guess the terms of her employment do not account for furlough!

Doesn't sound legit to me. Not sure how they would account for the claim eithet as its based on an average wage. I bet the school would be claiming for the full 80%...

Its the fact that they said after she suggested an unrelated part time job that rings an alarm bell. See what they say when she asks them "on what grounds?"

[Leithen]

wsn03 said:

Leithen said:

Have they been making up her salary to 100%, or paying her 80%?

You are aware that since August employers are paying ER NICs and since September the govt only 70%?

Are they reducing her wages to 80% from 100%?

More details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes...

She was receiving 100%.
They said they are dropping it to 80%.

I have asked her to ask by email:
On what grounds are you reducing my furlough pay?"

If they refer to the change in government support I have told her to then ask:

"Are you applying this to all staff across the board or just me"

Appreciate your information

From our own business (not a legal expert) we were advised that we needed to obtain agreement for contract amendment to pay 80% (which we did as we are a Pub business with zero income at the time).

The employer in this case probably questions why they ought to be funding 30% and then 40% of the salary plus NIC whilst the employee is using the time to make additional earnings. At 80% they will still be funding 10% plus NIC' and then in October 20% plus NIC.

[clarkey]

Is it worth fighting? She's had 6 months off on full pay, and can now have 80% and take a part time job. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of law, I wouldn't rock the boat for a deal like that.

Just my personal opinion.

[Jasandjules]

What does the signed agreement in respect of the variation of her terms of employment to enter into the Furlough process say?

[anonymous-user]

Will she still be available to work as normal if the school requested her to come back? If yes then I don't see their decision holding water, if she isn't available to work as normal then it strengthens the school decision but IANAL.

[JxJ Jr.]

wsn03 said:

She has told the school out of courtesy that she is taking up a new out of hours part time job. It does not in any way affect her school role.

wsn03 said:

Its the fact that they said after she suggested an unrelated part time job that rings an alarm bell.

What does her contract say about taking other jobs? Many specify that the employee can't or that it must be approved by the employer.

[wsn03]

gottans said:

Will she still be available to work as normal if the school requested her to come back? If yes then I don't see their decision holding water, if she isn't available to work as normal then it strengthens the school decision but IANAL.

THIS
She will still be available to work as normal

[wsn03]

JxJ Jr. said:

wsn03 said:

She has told the school out of courtesy that she is taking up a new out of hours part time job. It does not in any way affect her school role.

wsn03 said:

Its the fact that they said after she suggested an unrelated part time job that rings an alarm bell.

What does her contract say about taking other jobs? Many specify that the employee can't or that it must be approved by the employer.

I will check the contract

[Toltec]

Is this work unpaid community work or helping out with a harvest?

Otherwise then legal or not claiming full pay and using the same time to earn more money is not exactly moral. The furlough scheme is there to allow businesses to retain staff while unable to generate the income to pay them. The bill for this will need to be paid by all of us eventually and while it was an important thing to do it wasn't to allow some to gain from it. That is an insult to those of us that have continued to work all the way through to keep things working for everyone else.

[Rivenink]

Furlough was only 80% of someones normal pay.

If she was getting 100% of her normal pay; the school was paying that extra 20% out of courtesy to her. Presumably they didn't need to, and could have dropped her to 80% as soon as furlough started.

If thats the case, I think your friend is being somewhat ungrateful to her employer for that courtesy when they've considered that she doesn't need the full 100% if shes working at another job, during time that she'd normally be working for them.

Is not enough she's being paid twice for each hour she works?

[gazza285]

Rivenink said:

Furlough was only 80% of someones normal pay.

If she was getting 100% of her normal pay; the school was paying that extra 20% out of courtesy to her. Presumably they didn't need to, and could have dropped her to 80% as soon as furlough started.

If thats the case, I think your friend is being somewhat ungrateful to her employer for that courtesy when they've considered that she doesn't need the full 100% if shes working at another job, during time that she'd normally be working for them.

Is not enough she's being paid twice for each hour she works?

Indeed. She has not had her furlough pay reduced, she is losing a courtesy payment.

[hutchst]

... and doing part-time work that might otherwise be done by somebody else that isn't fortunate enough to be receiving any furlough payments.

[anonymous-user]

Complaining to her employer may backfire in the long run. I think it would colour future relationships between her and the school - and quite possibly with colleagues, too.

[Hol]

What did her civil service Union Lawyer advise when she contacted them?


I am sure a professional would know the situation after many months of lockdown.