Integrated Amp vs Power Amp - any difference in quality ?
Discussion
I guess many of you will have thought about this and tried it out, so I ask for your experiences and thoughts please.
I've an Arcam SA20 integrated amp, going through a pair of Monitor Audio silver 100s.
I like this very much.
I'm mulling over using the SA20 as a pre amp, plus a Power Amp.
There is a clean looking Arcam P90s on ebay for not much money right now. Not that I'm super fussed about only using Arcam amplifiers or anything...
Will I notice the difference in quality or tone ?
Will the P90 drive the silver 100s harder ?
Lots of folk seem to like the Arcam power amps, and Audiolab stuff too.
But would I expect to hear a noticeable difference in quality with those, or would it be more likely only with super-duper mono blocks or somesuch ?
I know this is all guesswork and subjective, but at the same I guess many of you will have experience of doing just this.
In other news - I've been a member for 18 years.
Blinking Nora !
I've an Arcam SA20 integrated amp, going through a pair of Monitor Audio silver 100s.
I like this very much.
I'm mulling over using the SA20 as a pre amp, plus a Power Amp.
There is a clean looking Arcam P90s on ebay for not much money right now. Not that I'm super fussed about only using Arcam amplifiers or anything...
Will I notice the difference in quality or tone ?
Will the P90 drive the silver 100s harder ?
Lots of folk seem to like the Arcam power amps, and Audiolab stuff too.
But would I expect to hear a noticeable difference in quality with those, or would it be more likely only with super-duper mono blocks or somesuch ?
I know this is all guesswork and subjective, but at the same I guess many of you will have experience of doing just this.
In other news - I've been a member for 18 years.
Blinking Nora !
I can't comment on your specific configurations but the answer should be yes , adding a power amp will make the sound better, how much depends on how easy your current amp finds it to drive your speakers. Adding a power amp adds headroom, just like getting a bigger engine in the car. If your amp was under powered it will make a huge difference, if you are well within the amps capabilities maybe none. The difference bwtween a 30 watt amp and a 100 watt amp is not the same as the difference between a 1600 and a 3000cc engine. Whilst the headline figure seems bigger a 30 watt class A amp with a suitable power supply may be able to drive a speaker louder than a Class AB amp with a poor quality power supply. For most systems you rarely use more than 1 watt average for comfortable listening but peak wattage could be into the 100s.
P700DEE said:
I can't comment on your specific configurations but the answer should be yes , adding a power amp will make the sound better, how much depends on how easy your current amp finds it to drive your speakers. Adding a power amp adds headroom, just like getting a bigger engine in the car. If your amp was under powered it will make a huge difference, if you are well within the amps capabilities maybe none. The difference bwtween a 30 watt amp and a 100 watt amp is not the same as the difference between a 1600 and a 3000cc engine. Whilst the headline figure seems bigger a 30 watt class A amp with a suitable power supply may be able to drive a speaker louder than a Class AB amp with a poor quality power supply. For most systems you rarely use more than 1 watt average for comfortable listening but peak wattage could be into the 100s.
Similar to the above and not a direct answer to your question but years ago I configured my yamaha AV amp to bi-amped mode and the difference even at low volumes was pretty remarkable. More of everything without needing to go loud. If the power amp is at a good price, you’ve nothing to lose by trying it. Flog it on if you don’t like it after a long test.
Sometimes you’re better off just going for a ‘better’ integrated amp, as the sound/music is determined a great deal by the pre amp section, and that’ll remain the same when adding a power amp.
Perhaps buy it, and if you like it enough, keep an eye out for an improved pre amp, used, see if that works for you.
Just be aware that cabling starts to multiply!
Sometimes you’re better off just going for a ‘better’ integrated amp, as the sound/music is determined a great deal by the pre amp section, and that’ll remain the same when adding a power amp.
Perhaps buy it, and if you like it enough, keep an eye out for an improved pre amp, used, see if that works for you.
Just be aware that cabling starts to multiply!
I bought an NAD C272 power amp to go with the C340 integrated I've had for a while, which is now the preamp feeding the C272.
I thought it made a nice difference, bass tighter and more controlled and definitely more detail - hearing subtle things I hadn't noticed before. I was using Acoustic Energy Aegis two floorstanders when I added the C272, and I've now changed to Monitor Audio Bronze 6 and still happy.
I thought it made a nice difference, bass tighter and more controlled and definitely more detail - hearing subtle things I hadn't noticed before. I was using Acoustic Energy Aegis two floorstanders when I added the C272, and I've now changed to Monitor Audio Bronze 6 and still happy.
Comparing the specs between the SA20 and P90 shows practically identical power output.
The only compromise with an integrated amp, is that at high (very high) power levels, sometimes power supply "sag" (drop in voltage) can affect the small signal circuitry.
This should not happen in any competent design (which you'd hope the Arcam is).
Given the SA20 is specified as 90w per channel at 0.5% THD - I suspect you are probably using 1/10th of that power (if that) most of the time.
The P90 is also rated at 90w per channel (THD not specified but I suspect 0.5%) so you won't notice any difference at all (volume wise) by adding a P90.
But - the SA20 is a Class G design, and I believe the P90 is a conventional Class AB design - so the amplifiers have different topologies, which may sound different to you (unlikely).
You could of course biamp your speakers, however the differing amplifier topology might be subtly different across the frequency range - might.
Would you notice any difference there? I can't say...
The only compromise with an integrated amp, is that at high (very high) power levels, sometimes power supply "sag" (drop in voltage) can affect the small signal circuitry.
This should not happen in any competent design (which you'd hope the Arcam is).
Given the SA20 is specified as 90w per channel at 0.5% THD - I suspect you are probably using 1/10th of that power (if that) most of the time.
The P90 is also rated at 90w per channel (THD not specified but I suspect 0.5%) so you won't notice any difference at all (volume wise) by adding a P90.
But - the SA20 is a Class G design, and I believe the P90 is a conventional Class AB design - so the amplifiers have different topologies, which may sound different to you (unlikely).
You could of course biamp your speakers, however the differing amplifier topology might be subtly different across the frequency range - might.
Would you notice any difference there? I can't say...
Obviously this example was with completely different amps to yours, but when I first decided to get a decent hifi, I'd saved up a certain budget - I think just under £1000 in 1987. Went to the hifi shop in Huddersfield wanting to listen to an Audiolab 8000 integrated amp, Celestion speakers and a suitable CD player.
After listening to the Audiolab, the guy suggested I listen to a Sugden pre/power combination (C28 pre and P28 power) through Rogers speakers which was still within budget. At the time the Audiolab was highly thought of (I understand it still is), but the Sugden amps sounded significantly better. A year later I went back and bought a second P28 power amp (they were around £180-£200) as they could be jumpered to run in bridged mono mode. That further improved the sound slightly, and provided a lot more power - which did get used from time to time at the odd house party (I was a student at the time)!
33 years later I still have this combination - now relegated to a gym/games room and it still sounds really excellent.
I guess the only way for you to find out would be to try it and see what you think. As has been mentioned, if you're not that impressed you should be able to sell it again for very little loss.
After listening to the Audiolab, the guy suggested I listen to a Sugden pre/power combination (C28 pre and P28 power) through Rogers speakers which was still within budget. At the time the Audiolab was highly thought of (I understand it still is), but the Sugden amps sounded significantly better. A year later I went back and bought a second P28 power amp (they were around £180-£200) as they could be jumpered to run in bridged mono mode. That further improved the sound slightly, and provided a lot more power - which did get used from time to time at the odd house party (I was a student at the time)!
33 years later I still have this combination - now relegated to a gym/games room and it still sounds really excellent.
I guess the only way for you to find out would be to try it and see what you think. As has been mentioned, if you're not that impressed you should be able to sell it again for very little loss.
Thanks for all the comments. Very helpful.
To be clear, I wasn't neccessarily wishing for louder. I was wondering if the quality of the sound woud be improved by removing the dual role of the integrated amplifier.
Ability to go louder is not a bad thing though.
Maybe I'll put in a bid and see if I win.
To be clear, I wasn't neccessarily wishing for louder. I was wondering if the quality of the sound woud be improved by removing the dual role of the integrated amplifier.
Ability to go louder is not a bad thing though.
Maybe I'll put in a bid and see if I win.
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