K5 GSXR 1000 vs new Duc V4S
Discussion
AmirGSXR said:
Steve Bass said:
Interesting vid but I don't completely agree with their final assessment.....
Could I ask why?In real performance terms, 30 bhp difference isn't so much when you consider that the Ducati is rated as 214 @ 13000 whereas the Suzuki is rated at 178 @ 11000.
What we don't see is the relative power curves overlaid against the track data trace. Given that the Suzuki is geared and the Ducati is standard, it's possible the Suzuki is making as much power as the Ducati for any particular piece of track. Consider that the Suzuki makes its peak torque at 8500 whereas the Ducat needs 10000 on the dial to make only 6nm more, so the Suzuki will never be far behind n acceleration up to the 150 mph mark...
Next up, the Suzuki is old BUT has been geared down and has decent suspension. Ohlins rear and (based on stickers) K-Tech front.
DO NOT under estimate the benefit of good suspension and correct gearing for a given track....You might find the Ducati never got out of 5th (for example) but we'll never know, they don't give the data...
The Ducati looks completely standard, so long gearing but most importantly, we don't know what settings the bike was using. The 2020 V4 is known to have a soft power curve to tame its wild side and allied to unknown suspension and other settings such as wheelie control etc, may have been quite intrusive in the bikes power delivery and therefore ability to get out of corners. We might even see the Duc was quicker in some parts of the lap but lost out on corner exit etc.... Details...Details, Details.
So, like for like is never as it seems. For reference, the lap time difference between my Frankenstein Ducati race bike and my Triumph 675 Endurance bike is far less than you would think, even at a fast open circuit, maybe less than 2 secs.....
So in reference to this headline catching vid (remember, they're fishing for views) is that they don't do is show the data, especially rpm, speed and gearing across the whole lap. This would be the first area to investigate where time was won or lost. Instead they make up some arse hat flow chart to try to show all the possible variables rather than show the data and finally decide to take the Ducati to a dealer thinking it's broken. Dicks. Don't use data loggers if you're not going to use data properly.......
People think power is the be all and end all of times. Not so.
For context, what's the average lap time delta between a MotoGP bike with nearly 300bhp and a Moto3 bike with 50bhp?? Answer... usually around 10 to 13 seconds. For a >200bhp deficit....
You get the picture...
Edited by Steve Bass on Sunday 13th September 16:36
... reminded me of the Performance Bikes 2008 modded FireBlade article, they threw enough parts and made enough detail changes it topped their leaderboard of all the new models just a year or two back, lapping quicker around Donnington against bikes which , on paper stats, which should be quicker.
Ive not ridden an V4 but my brother has a V2 Pani R and complains how stiff and uncompromising that is, while these more race track orientated bikes will perhaps be quicker in the hands of an expert, maybe for most folk something a little less focusedlike the GSXR is more mangeable , forgiving and quicker in most peoples hands?
Ive not ridden an V4 but my brother has a V2 Pani R and complains how stiff and uncompromising that is, while these more race track orientated bikes will perhaps be quicker in the hands of an expert, maybe for most folk something a little less focusedlike the GSXR is more mangeable , forgiving and quicker in most peoples hands?
Thanks for the explanation Steve
Zarco said:
Isn't the GSXR on slicks?
I watched this a couple of weeks ago and that is what I recall. Remember thinking it was a bit of a silly comparison and turning it off.
These guys do turn out some good content but this was a bit too much click bait.
They did change back to road tyres and swap bikes to compare later on. I watched this a couple of weeks ago and that is what I recall. Remember thinking it was a bit of a silly comparison and turning it off.
These guys do turn out some good content but this was a bit too much click bait.
trickywoo said:
Unless you think the GSXR was specifically set up for that track and they ran rubbish settings on the Duc deliberately most of what you said makes no difference to the video comparison.
Based on?Steve gave, what I thought to be a fairly credible account of why he thought it was a skewed comparison.
But you can't jump in and say that someone is talking s**t without giving an alternative account of why you think what they have said is s**t along with an explanation as to why its s**t.
Steve Bass said:
.......
People think power is the be all and end all of times. Not so.
...
Reminds me again about this Fast Bikes Mag article where they tested the supernakeds and Speed Triple RS won over Aprilia Tuono on a race track, despite having large power deficit.People think power is the be all and end all of times. Not so.
...
The reason for the win was explained with great suspension (Ohlins) and handling, tractable engine and easy-to-ride behaviour (smooth throttle and engine at lower revs).
As another thing, look at the track configuration of Button Willow.
3.1 km track with a lap speed of 1:46 from a race S1KRR.
Compared to a track local to me with the same outline shape but a length of 2.4kms the National race pace is circa 1:01
So 40+ seconds for 700meters says it's a track that won't suit high power road bikes and this is a huge leveller.
Like I said, context is king. To say the Suzuki is faster is disingenuous at best and without any data or information about bike gearing and set up it's meaningless
3.1 km track with a lap speed of 1:46 from a race S1KRR.
Compared to a track local to me with the same outline shape but a length of 2.4kms the National race pace is circa 1:01
So 40+ seconds for 700meters says it's a track that won't suit high power road bikes and this is a huge leveller.
Like I said, context is king. To say the Suzuki is faster is disingenuous at best and without any data or information about bike gearing and set up it's meaningless
trickywoo said:
Zarco said:
Isn't the GSXR on slicks?
I watched this a couple of weeks ago and that is what I recall.
Wouldn’t fancy relying on you as a witness in court. Your summary is more half arsed than you ironically claim the video to be.I watched this a couple of weeks ago and that is what I recall.
I leave the full arsed summary to Steve.
I bet on some circuits the Duc would be faster. But for me that’s not the real point. It just shows that a well set up (and lots less expensive) bike like the k5 is still extremely rapid even by today’s standards. Although without rider aids, you may need to be a very skilled rider to extract that level of performance
Anyone going to track days will tell you, there’s often some gadge on a steel beam framed cbr600 and scuffed to f
k fairings that is 5 seconds a lap faster than you on your latest 250hp super bike!
It’s not just how good you are, but how much you’re willing to push! And 25k bike vs 3k bike....
But shows how good them gixers were !
k fairings that is 5 seconds a lap faster than you on your latest 250hp super bike! It’s not just how good you are, but how much you’re willing to push! And 25k bike vs 3k bike....
But shows how good them gixers were !
poo at Paul's said:
But shows how good them gixers were !
They still are!You could throw reasonable $$ at a good example and have a terrific track weapon for fat less than a modern superbike. Tons of change for slicks etc .
leave the engine completely alone and just fit choice components like system and slipper clutch, decent brembo calipers, K-Tech or Ohlins forks and shock, Dymag/BST wheels and it's be cracker....
Steve Bass said:
poo at Paul's said:
But shows how good them gixers were !
They still are!You could throw reasonable $$ at a good example and have a terrific track weapon for fat less than a modern superbike. Tons of change for slicks etc .
leave the engine completely alone and just fit choice components like system and slipper clutch, decent brembo calipers, K-Tech or Ohlins forks and shock, Dymag/BST wheels and it's be cracker....
Also tells you that the price Suzuki charges for the bikes is not low, their bikes need additional mods, even for street riding.
P.S. I really liked my modded GSXR1000 K5.
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