BMW 1 Series F20 – manual or ZF 8HP automatic?

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I’m considering a lightly used small petrol F20 and wondering what transmission to get.

Car will be used mainly for long trips at the weekend and holidays (I live in a big city so don’t commute by car). Hope to keep it for ten years. Maybe more.

I drove a friend’s manual 2015 car and was impressed with the auto rev-matching on down-shifts (after years of throttle-blipping). But I’d never heard of that feature before the drive, so I spent most of the time figuring out what was going on rather than noticing the details. Does it also match revs on the up-shift?

Incredibly, the owner can’t tell me and hadn’t even noticed the rev-matching before I asked about it! Not a technical person.

That was a nice gearbox (except for the high arm-rest bumping my elbow). I’d be happy with it.

But I’ve also heard good things about the ZF 8HP. Some questions:

1. Might the auto’s higher top gear cause increased engine wear from higher cylinder pressures and torque? Small petrol, remember.
2. How does fuel economy compare to the manual, in general use and at a 130 km/h cruise? (I didn’t find comparable WLTP Extra-high figures, which would give a good indication.)
3. Maintenance costs and long-term reliability / lifespan?

Thanks!

(I have a couple of questions about the production changes over the years, too. Maybe later.)

[ashenfie]

The revs are matched. Like most modern Autos when coasting the revs drop to tick over and when you reapply power they are matched. The extra gear reduces engine temp. and seems to have no negatives that I can see. Fuel wise you will save on the motorway for sure, but around town maybe not.

Edited by ashenfie on Wednesday 16th September 10:21

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Thanks. Interesting that you’re confident consumption would be lower with the automatic at motorway speeds. I guess the torque converter locks up to achieve that?

About the rev-matching, I was talking about the auto rev-matching that the manual transmission has. But good to know the automatic has an auto-coasting function.

[danneth]

I've gone from a f31 330d 8zf to a manual m135i

The auto really is a great box and if I was doing lots of miles and looking for an easy time, wouldn't hesitate in getting it again.

With the M135i I was looking for something a bit more fun and to "properly" drive and feel more engaged, the manual is also a very good box imo

The manual of course ia a little worse mpg, but then you don't have servicing costs that the auto has also, I'd defenitly try both out

[BFleming]

danneth said:

The manual of course ia a little worse mpg, but then you don't have servicing costs that the auto has also, I'd defenitly try both out

What servicing costs of the auto box are you referring to? The fluid change that BMW don't actually schedule, but makes sense every 80,000+ miles?

[Pica-Pica]

ashenfie said:

The revs are matched. Like most modern Autos when coasting the revs drop to tick over and when you reapply power they are matched. The extra gear reduces engine temp. and seems to have no negatives that I can see. Fuel wise you will save on the motorway for sure, but around town maybe not.

Edited by ashenfie on Wednesday 16th September 10:21

The coasting feature can be switched off in iDrive, and only occurs in Eco-Pro setting if I recall. I turned mine off because it felt weird, and took away what engine braking there was.

[BFleming]

Less_is_more said:

I’m considering a lightly used small petrol F20 and wondering what transmission to get.

118i with the 1.5 3 cylinder engine is probably what I'd recommend. Having owned one, I'd steer clear of the older N13 engine (1.6 4 cylinder) found in the 114i/116i/118i. My experience only.

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BFleming said:

118i with the 1.5 3 cylinder engine is probably what I'd recommend. Having owned one, I'd steer clear of the older N13 engine (1.6 4 cylinder) found in the 114i/116i/118i. My experience only.

I think later N13 engines had improved reliability with the timing chain, etc., but the cars they’re in are too old now. Looking for something fresh that I can look after and keep as probably my last ICE car.

But I’m convinced of the merits of three-cylinder engines. I think they’re great! Will definitely be getting one of the 3-cylinder petrols … if I go for this car in the end. The tricky question is the transmission.

[South tdf]

Having driven both the auto is far superior as you can sometimes get caught out by a lack of power in the manual if you don’t change down on some steeper inclines.

[BFleming]

Less_is_more said:

The tricky question is the transmission.

For me it's not a question - if you don't need a manual, don't get one. That ZF 8 speed autobox is a masterpiece.

[ashenfie]

Less_is_more said:

I think later N13 engines had improved reliability with the timing chain, etc., but the cars they’re in are too old now. Looking for something fresh that I can look after and keep as probably my last ICE car.

But I’m convinced of the merits of three-cylinder engines. I think they’re great! Will definitely be getting one of the 3-cylinder petrols … if I go for this car in the end. The tricky question is the transmission.

I have driven 3 cylinder cars and they rely on the turbo for power. So if you drive all the time before just before the turbo cuts in then great you save, the second the turbo cuts in you burn petrol big time. To reduce turbo lag the turbo are mounted directly on the engine as part of the manifold. The turbo no get much heat directly from the engine and is more likely to fail. 320D with Autobox is a safer and eco IMHO.

[Touring442]

The N13 MINI/PSA engine is a boat anchor. Unreliable crap. Timing chain and guides, bore wear, stem seals, Vanos solenoids turbo waste gate and heat shield plus a delightful coolant leak from the rear coolant plastic take off that requires gearbox removal to repair. Just fantastic.

I'd have an automatic over a manual any day. Similarly, unless you really need a petrol, the 118d is just vastly superior on every level and it works so well as an auto. I haven't driven a 3 pot B48 so can't comment. They seem fairly reliable so far.

[BFleming]

Touring442 said:

The N13 MINI/PSA engine... Timing chain and guides, bore wear, stem seals ... heat shield.

I left the items in the above quote that happened to mine. I've often said I wished I'd bought a 118d instead. I would (and do) take my chances with a N47 any day over a N13.

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Touring442 said:

Similarly, unless you really need a petrol, the 118d is just vastly superior on every level

LJK Setright was true to his name when he called petrol “the queen of fuels”.

Diesel is an unsuitable fuel for cars – that’s why, globally, no-one uses it except where tax policies made it popular. And Europe is waking up to the mess those policies have created, while cities like the one I live in will soon take diesel off the table entirely.

Doesn’t affect me anyway, because I wouldn’t volunteer to use the sticky, slippery, stinky stuff. I’m considering a BMW because I want a smooth, flexible, ~50/50 balance, acoustically refined car, not a nose-heavy barge with drayage symptoms.

See how the exaggerations sound in reverse? Ha.

The transmission question is more difficult. The automatic increases the cost of a used car substantially. I might swing a post-GPF car with 10,000 km if going manual. Even poor drivers struggle to wreck a car mechanically in 10,000 km (exterior and interior is another matter, but I can check that at a glance).

Whereas if I go for an automatic, it’s looking more like 2017 and 30,000 km for the same money. Maybe that would be okay?

[BFleming]

Buy what works for you. A 118i with the 3 cylinder B38 and the ZF 8 speed is a fine car.

[Shanksy87]

The auto is a masterful gearbox, I would choose that unless you have a specific affinity for the manual. We had a manual F20 for 5 years, it was no bother at all but the auto would be my preference for normal use.

As other has said, fuel economy is improved and they're very responsive, no downside in reality these days.

With respect to your comment about arm hitting the arm rest, unless you're gifted with very long upper arms this suggest your seat position is too low. Set it such that your eye line is horizontal to the rear view mirror, I bet your problem goes away and your visibility will be improved

[Touring442]

Less_is_more said:

Touring442 said:

Similarly, unless you really need a petrol, the 118d is just vastly superior on every level

LJK Setright was true to his name when he called petrol “the queen of fuels”.

Diesel is an unsuitable fuel for cars – that’s why, globally, no-one uses it except where tax policies made it popular. And Europe is waking up to the mess those policies have created, while cities like the one I live in will soon take diesel off the table entirely.

Doesn’t affect me anyway, because I wouldn’t volunteer to use the sticky, slippery, stinky stuff. I’m considering a BMW because I want a smooth, flexible, ~50/50 balance, acoustically refined car, not a nose-heavy barge with drayage symptoms.

See how the exaggerations sound in reverse? Ha.

The transmission question is more difficult. The automatic increases the cost of a used car substantially. I might swing a post-GPF car with 10,000 km if going manual. Even poor drivers struggle to wreck a car mechanically in 10,000 km (exterior and interior is another matter, but I can check that at a glance).

Whereas if I go for an automatic, it’s looking more like 2017 and 30,000 km for the same money. Maybe that would be okay?

Quality rant.

One thing though - the N47 diesel engine when fully dressed is within 0.3 of a kilo of the N13 petrol. At 97 kg 'dry' it's surprisingly light.

I don't like Derv either btw.

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Can anyone tell me what the three red warning lights are in this photo, just above the time-of-day clock?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9306/12TUPK...

It’s a 2019 car. Couldn’t find a place to download a user manual. BMW website useless.

[_Hoppers]

Rear passenger seatbelt warning I'd guess

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There is a separate seatbelt warning to the left, though.