Ongoing website costs - how much are you paying?
Discussion
Hi all
I help run a training company - we started in 2010 and turnover is in the region of £1m with the website providing the significant majority of the leads for new business.
We've been with our current web dev/design studio since the beginning of 2020 and we are being pestered by the new 'account manager' to increase our monthly retainer to 3 days (just shy of £3k + VAT) for "enhancements and bug fixes". So far we've already spent £20k this year (this includes £5k on a visual re-skin of the website which we are happy with - but no structural or functional changes).
This is significantly more than we've spent in previous years - we moved from a very small firm with four or five staff to these guys who are a more like 15/20 - can't shake the feeling most of the additional monthly spend is going on nice offices and paying the salary of the (non technical) account manager who only seems to be capable of discussing money.
I don't want to nickel-and-dime an important part of the business, but also don't want to be a cash cow for someone else. How much are you guys paying and do you feel you are getting value for money?
I help run a training company - we started in 2010 and turnover is in the region of £1m with the website providing the significant majority of the leads for new business.
We've been with our current web dev/design studio since the beginning of 2020 and we are being pestered by the new 'account manager' to increase our monthly retainer to 3 days (just shy of £3k + VAT) for "enhancements and bug fixes". So far we've already spent £20k this year (this includes £5k on a visual re-skin of the website which we are happy with - but no structural or functional changes).
This is significantly more than we've spent in previous years - we moved from a very small firm with four or five staff to these guys who are a more like 15/20 - can't shake the feeling most of the additional monthly spend is going on nice offices and paying the salary of the (non technical) account manager who only seems to be capable of discussing money.
I don't want to nickel-and-dime an important part of the business, but also don't want to be a cash cow for someone else. How much are you guys paying and do you feel you are getting value for money?
maturin23 said:
Hi all
I help run a training company - we started in 2010 and turnover is in the region of £1m with the website providing the significant majority of the leads for new business.
We've been with our current web dev/design studio since the beginning of 2020 and we are being pestered by the new 'account manager' to increase our monthly retainer to 3 days (just shy of £3k + VAT) for "enhancements and bug fixes". So far we've already spent £20k this year (this includes £5k on a visual re-skin of the website which we are happy with - but no structural or functional changes).
This is significantly more than we've spent in previous years - we moved from a very small firm with four or five staff to these guys who are a more like 15/20 - can't shake the feeling most of the additional monthly spend is going on nice offices and paying the salary of the (non technical) account manager who only seems to be capable of discussing money.
I don't want to nickel-and-dime an important part of the business, but also don't want to be a cash cow for someone else. How much are you guys paying and do you feel you are getting value for money?
3 days retainer for (overall)m1 person's time there? As in £1000 +VAT day rate?I help run a training company - we started in 2010 and turnover is in the region of £1m with the website providing the significant majority of the leads for new business.
We've been with our current web dev/design studio since the beginning of 2020 and we are being pestered by the new 'account manager' to increase our monthly retainer to 3 days (just shy of £3k + VAT) for "enhancements and bug fixes". So far we've already spent £20k this year (this includes £5k on a visual re-skin of the website which we are happy with - but no structural or functional changes).
This is significantly more than we've spent in previous years - we moved from a very small firm with four or five staff to these guys who are a more like 15/20 - can't shake the feeling most of the additional monthly spend is going on nice offices and paying the salary of the (non technical) account manager who only seems to be capable of discussing money.
I don't want to nickel-and-dime an important part of the business, but also don't want to be a cash cow for someone else. How much are you guys paying and do you feel you are getting value for money?
Whats their normal rate you are paying? And is it Central London or somewhere cheaper.
There are a number of ways in which companies can offer web services - ultimately they will be working out their costs (staff / overheads) and needing to pay for them - if they are a business with offices etc. then you will be paying for them - however, there is an upside in that hopefully with a bigger company there will be perhaps a quicker response time / more resource / more skill base / etc.
however - you need to look at what needs doing with the website on an ongoing basis and what that might cost - I would only look at agreeing a monthly fee if you feel it effectively is giving you a discount on the spend you might anticipate - the advantage to you is the ability to budget / the advantage to them is knowing their income allowing them to manage staff etc. So for example, if they charge £100 p/h you might expect that in buying 30 hours a month at £3k you would get a discount and perhaps be paying £2,500 instead - if you are likely to use the time, then it would be worth doing that...
your post suggests though that you feel you are not using anywhere near the level of time you are paying for, so have you talked to them about possibly paying the full hourly rate but only against work done?
There are also some questions to ask about the website as suggested above:
- what technology does it sit on?
- is the system proprietary (harder to move)?
- what are the updates that they are doing?
- does the additional work drive extra income - if not, why are you doing it?
I have been running my web business now for over 16 years, and in that time we have had a wide range of relationships with clients:
- some who are still using a website we wrote for them 10+ years ago (still does the job so why change?!)
- some who are changing their websites / updating them / tweaking them every 3-5 years or every 2-3 years
- some who are constantly doing work every month as they build sophisticated process based systems - and some of those spend way more than you are spending - others, very little...
We made a decision some years ago that we would charge a flat hourly rate - and only against work we do, no contracts / no monthly retainers / etc. as long as you have paid your bills you are free to come and go as you please - and as a result we have a high retention rate of clients who feel very few ties and are not spending money when not needed... harder for us to budget, but much fairer for the client...
If you want someone to have a look at your website / have a chat / discuss what you should be spending - without commitment - give me a call (website in my profile)...
however - you need to look at what needs doing with the website on an ongoing basis and what that might cost - I would only look at agreeing a monthly fee if you feel it effectively is giving you a discount on the spend you might anticipate - the advantage to you is the ability to budget / the advantage to them is knowing their income allowing them to manage staff etc. So for example, if they charge £100 p/h you might expect that in buying 30 hours a month at £3k you would get a discount and perhaps be paying £2,500 instead - if you are likely to use the time, then it would be worth doing that...
your post suggests though that you feel you are not using anywhere near the level of time you are paying for, so have you talked to them about possibly paying the full hourly rate but only against work done?
There are also some questions to ask about the website as suggested above:
- what technology does it sit on?
- is the system proprietary (harder to move)?
- what are the updates that they are doing?
- does the additional work drive extra income - if not, why are you doing it?
I have been running my web business now for over 16 years, and in that time we have had a wide range of relationships with clients:
- some who are still using a website we wrote for them 10+ years ago (still does the job so why change?!)
- some who are changing their websites / updating them / tweaking them every 3-5 years or every 2-3 years
- some who are constantly doing work every month as they build sophisticated process based systems - and some of those spend way more than you are spending - others, very little...
We made a decision some years ago that we would charge a flat hourly rate - and only against work we do, no contracts / no monthly retainers / etc. as long as you have paid your bills you are free to come and go as you please - and as a result we have a high retention rate of clients who feel very few ties and are not spending money when not needed... harder for us to budget, but much fairer for the client...
If you want someone to have a look at your website / have a chat / discuss what you should be spending - without commitment - give me a call (website in my profile)...
Are you making a lot of changes to the site? As someone who hosts 90+ websites and works with developers my gut reaction is that seems high unless you’re on the phone to them constantly tweaking and fixing things. But I only know what you said in the OP which is little, could be wrong.
Is this just a brochure website with information/contact forms, or it is a platform for delivering training online?
£1k per day seems very much on the high end in either case.
I'm in the South East, run a very small web dev company (me and one other dev from a small office) and charge £60+VAT/h for work done.
Neither type of system should need bug fixes on a monthly basis if built properly.
Updates depends of course on your requests, plus maybe an hour or two on average per month for updating underlying software, if its a complex setup.
£1k per day seems very much on the high end in either case.
I'm in the South East, run a very small web dev company (me and one other dev from a small office) and charge £60+VAT/h for work done.
Neither type of system should need bug fixes on a monthly basis if built properly.
Updates depends of course on your requests, plus maybe an hour or two on average per month for updating underlying software, if its a complex setup.
wheelerc said:
Is this just a brochure website with information/contact forms, or it is a platform for delivering training online?
£1k per day seems very much on the high end in either case.
I'm in the South East, run a very small web dev company (me and one other dev from a small office) and charge £60+VAT/h for work done.
Neither type of system should need bug fixes on a monthly basis if built properly.
Updates depends of course on your requests, plus maybe an hour or two on average per month for updating underlying software, if its a complex setup.
I don't think we can tell... a website can need very little work, but we have had clients who have spent over £10k a month, building very sophisticated process based systems, there is everybtype of system out there!£1k per day seems very much on the high end in either case.
I'm in the South East, run a very small web dev company (me and one other dev from a small office) and charge £60+VAT/h for work done.
Neither type of system should need bug fixes on a monthly basis if built properly.
Updates depends of course on your requests, plus maybe an hour or two on average per month for updating underlying software, if its a complex setup.
maturin23 said:
Hi all
I help run a training company - we started in 2010 and turnover is in the region of £1m with the website providing the significant majority of the leads for new business.
We've been with our current web dev/design studio since the beginning of 2020 and we are being pestered by the new 'account manager' to increase our monthly retainer to 3 days (just shy of £3k + VAT) for "enhancements and bug fixes". So far we've already spent £20k this year (this includes £5k on a visual re-skin of the website which we are happy with - but no structural or functional changes).
This is significantly more than we've spent in previous years - we moved from a very small firm with four or five staff to these guys who are a more like 15/20 - can't shake the feeling most of the additional monthly spend is going on nice offices and paying the salary of the (non technical) account manager who only seems to be capable of discussing money.
I don't want to nickel-and-dime an important part of the business, but also don't want to be a cash cow for someone else. How much are you guys paying and do you feel you are getting value for money?
Sounds like the account manager needs a 'shot across the bows' especially given the short time they have gotten to know your company's needs. They look to be trying to ramp up your costs unnecessarily, I'd be setting things straight with them about your expectations. If you don't t get a feeling they are going to buck up their ideas I'd be moving again.I help run a training company - we started in 2010 and turnover is in the region of £1m with the website providing the significant majority of the leads for new business.
We've been with our current web dev/design studio since the beginning of 2020 and we are being pestered by the new 'account manager' to increase our monthly retainer to 3 days (just shy of £3k + VAT) for "enhancements and bug fixes". So far we've already spent £20k this year (this includes £5k on a visual re-skin of the website which we are happy with - but no structural or functional changes).
This is significantly more than we've spent in previous years - we moved from a very small firm with four or five staff to these guys who are a more like 15/20 - can't shake the feeling most of the additional monthly spend is going on nice offices and paying the salary of the (non technical) account manager who only seems to be capable of discussing money.
I don't want to nickel-and-dime an important part of the business, but also don't want to be a cash cow for someone else. How much are you guys paying and do you feel you are getting value for money?
To give you an idea of costs, I run a web design & hosting business. If your website is WordPress our monthly maintenance is £25 which includes updates, backups, downtime monitoring, malware scanning etc. For monthly dev work this starts from £50 a month with the above but also includes 2 hours dev work a month.
This then climbs depending on the amount of monthly work. More than happy to have a chat if you think I could help lower your costs?
This then climbs depending on the amount of monthly work. More than happy to have a chat if you think I could help lower your costs?
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff