Ignorance of the Holocaust
Discussion
Pretty depressing article in the Guardian about general ignorance in the US amongst “young” people (not sure I would class 18-39 as young) about the holocaust.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/16/holo...
How is it possible to get through life without coming across details of the Holocaust? What do they teach in US schools about history?
Makes it less of a mystery how Trump got elected.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/16/holo...
How is it possible to get through life without coming across details of the Holocaust? What do they teach in US schools about history?
Makes it less of a mystery how Trump got elected.
I'm going to generalise massively here but I think the US is pretty insular.
I think there's some scary stat on how few US citizens have either left the country or maybe even have a passport I forget which.
It's one of those articles that once you get past your first WTF reaction perhaps isn't as big a surprise as it ought to be.
I think there's some scary stat on how few US citizens have either left the country or maybe even have a passport I forget which.
It's one of those articles that once you get past your first WTF reaction perhaps isn't as big a surprise as it ought to be.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm going to generalise massively here but I think the US is pretty insular.
I think there's some scary stat on how few US citizens have either left the country or maybe even have a passport I forget which.
It's one of those articles that once you get past your first WTF reaction perhaps isn't as big a surprise as it ought to be.
It’s true not a lot of Americans have left America, but it’s such a large country with so many different places to visit - how many Europeans haven’t left Europe.I think there's some scary stat on how few US citizens have either left the country or maybe even have a passport I forget which.
It's one of those articles that once you get past your first WTF reaction perhaps isn't as big a surprise as it ought to be.
Heartworm said:
It’s true not a lot of Americans have left America, but it’s such a large country with so many different places to visit - how many Europeans haven’t left Europe.
Although the US is large it is culturally quite homogeneous - same language, food, sports, politics etc. Travelling within Europe exposes you to much more cultural diversity. bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Geographically that's probably fair.
I'm talking more about culturally (can't think of a better word).
I would suggest that the vast majority of those with passports in the U.K. would not have one if they could go to Spain without.I'm talking more about culturally (can't think of a better word).
Does having a passport make one cultured? I wonder how many of those with passports in the U.K. go looking for culture or 2 weeks in Benidorm for your full English in the Irish pub is culture now.
Lord.Vader said:
It didn’t happen in the USA amd wasn’t ‘against’ Americans (like for example Vietnam) so it doesn’t really ‘matter’.
Having worked in the USA a fair bit, their general level of ignorance of anything outside of the USA and / or the USA’s way of doing things was quite eye opening.
I think Jay Leno had a repeat feature on his show where he would go out and ask people on the street some basic questions eg details of the constitution. I seem to recall one where he asked Americans to identify Vietnam on a map. Despite having fought a war there not many seemed to know where it was.Having worked in the USA a fair bit, their general level of ignorance of anything outside of the USA and / or the USA’s way of doing things was quite eye opening.
My mother used to spend winters in Florida. She made a lot of friends. We visited around the time of the second Iraq war. Speaking with an ex high school teacher it was clear he knew almost nothing about Muslims. Didn’t even know that the alcohol is forbidden. Eye opening levels of ignorance. But not surprising. Most news was local so you would struggle to find out about anything outside your own state!
nikaiyo2 said:
I would suggest that the vast majority of those with passports in the U.K. would not have one if they could go to Spain without.
Does having a passport make one cultured? I wonder how many of those with passports in the U.K. go looking for culture or 2 weeks in Benidorm for your full English in the Irish pub is culture now.
Maybe but from what I know of the US I think LV was pretty much on the money with his comment above.Does having a passport make one cultured? I wonder how many of those with passports in the U.K. go looking for culture or 2 weeks in Benidorm for your full English in the Irish pub is culture now.
I was just trying to be a bit more diplomatic
Esceptico said:
I think Jay Leno had a repeat feature on his show where he would go out and ask people on the street some basic questions eg details of the constitution. I seem to recall one where he asked Americans to identify Vietnam on a map. Despite having fought a war there not many seemed to know where it was.
In another episode, Jay showed a photo of The Great Sphynx of Giza and more than one person said it is in Las Vegas!I'm not sure what kids get taught here these days, but when I was at school we did Romans and Tudors, nothing about WW2 and other 20th century goings-on. I didn't do history or politics at O-level though.
Although I was aware of the holocaust, my knowledge really only came from what I saw on TV, and my viewing was "censored" by my parents as a kid (no bedroom TVs back then).
I do remember getting very upset when visiting (I think) the Science Museum and seeing a Kamikaze plane, and reading the info board.
I reckon I would've had similar, if not worse, feelings if I'd been taught about the holocaust as a kid. That kind of thing is probably best left until kids are old enough to process without getting nightmares.
Although I was aware of the holocaust, my knowledge really only came from what I saw on TV, and my viewing was "censored" by my parents as a kid (no bedroom TVs back then).
I do remember getting very upset when visiting (I think) the Science Museum and seeing a Kamikaze plane, and reading the info board.
I reckon I would've had similar, if not worse, feelings if I'd been taught about the holocaust as a kid. That kind of thing is probably best left until kids are old enough to process without getting nightmares.
Heartworm said:
It’s true not a lot of Americans have left America, but it’s such a large country with so many different places to visit - how many Europeans haven’t left Europe.
True. The other aspects are the cost and time - unless they want to go to Mexico or Canada it's mainly long haul and although flights are cheap these days it's still much dearer and more involved than it is for us popping to anywhere in Europe for a weekend. I know that getting from New York to California is a long way, with a time zone change, but it's easier than coming to Europe.They can ski, surf, climb mountains, gamble, go to the beach and visit all sorts of Disney type things without having to change currencies or learn a new language.
clockworks said:
I'm not sure what kids get taught here these days, but when I was at school we did Romans and Tudors, nothing about WW2 and other 20th century goings-on. I didn't do history or politics at O-level though.
Although I was aware of the holocaust, my knowledge really only came from what I saw on TV, and my viewing was "censored" by my parents as a kid (no bedroom TVs back then).
I do remember getting very upset when visiting (I think) the Science Museum and seeing a Kamikaze plane, and reading the info board.
I reckon I would've had similar, if not worse, feelings if I'd been taught about the holocaust as a kid. That kind of thing is probably best left until kids are old enough to process without getting nightmares.
It's a mandatory element of the school syllabus in England - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/...Although I was aware of the holocaust, my knowledge really only came from what I saw on TV, and my viewing was "censored" by my parents as a kid (no bedroom TVs back then).
I do remember getting very upset when visiting (I think) the Science Museum and seeing a Kamikaze plane, and reading the info board.
I reckon I would've had similar, if not worse, feelings if I'd been taught about the holocaust as a kid. That kind of thing is probably best left until kids are old enough to process without getting nightmares.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Maybe but from what I know of the US I think LV was pretty much on the money with his comment above.
I was just trying to be a bit more diplomatic
Oh yeah it’s weird how insular they are.I was just trying to be a bit more diplomatic
We used to go to California for summer holidays as a kid, my mum still talks about how the news would cover northern Cali and that was about it.
I tend to think that most countries the news is far more insular than here, in Thailand for instance the news is pretty much Thai stories and that’s it. India is very similar. I tend to read the online editions of a few Indian and Thai papers and there is very little non local stories unless you go looking for the “world” section.
rscott said:
It's a mandatory element of the school syllabus in England - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/...
It may be mandatory at some stage, but in the current GCSE syllabus they seem to do Stalin, Mao and the Great Depression/New Deal. I don’t remember being explicitly taught about it, our history was all Tudors and stuff. My initial learnings about WW2 was pretty much Sven Hassel books.ash73 said:
Do Americans (or anyone else) need to know about the holocaust?
I think absolutely yes. Surely a basic education should involve the learning of major historical events, maths, and English, science, and geography? Some of the deficits in general knowledge I encounter in the USA still really shock me, particularly in geography. I've met intelligent people who thought San Juan is in Mexico (it's a US territory), several who think Africa is a country, and others who think England consists only of London.I met an American while I was travelling in Georgia (european Georgia).
He had been studying and living in Europe for a while and he learnt Russian and French while he was in Europe.
He admitted that before he left the USA he didn't really know much about the world, he used to think about france and how can they possibly survive without the freedoms that they have in the US. Kind of weird I thought.
He had been studying and living in Europe for a while and he learnt Russian and French while he was in Europe.
He admitted that before he left the USA he didn't really know much about the world, he used to think about france and how can they possibly survive without the freedoms that they have in the US. Kind of weird I thought.
ash73 said:
But why the holocaust in particular? How does your knowledge about it affect your outlook? I assume you'd still be a decent person if you didn't know anything about it.
What specifically should we learn from it? What would you teach children about it? And how much detail do people need to know? I would suggest almost none.
I actually wonder how many British people know about the nanjing massacre, frankly I knew little about it until I went there.What specifically should we learn from it? What would you teach children about it? And how much detail do people need to know? I would suggest almost none.
Heartworm said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm going to generalise massively here but I think the US is pretty insular.
I think there's some scary stat on how few US citizens have either left the country or maybe even have a passport I forget which.
It's one of those articles that once you get past your first WTF reaction perhaps isn't as big a surprise as it ought to be.
It’s true not a lot of Americans have left America, but it’s such a large country with so many different places to visit - how many Europeans haven’t left Europe.I think there's some scary stat on how few US citizens have either left the country or maybe even have a passport I forget which.
It's one of those articles that once you get past your first WTF reaction perhaps isn't as big a surprise as it ought to be.
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