Dual Carriageways
Discussion
hey,
I realise there is a fair bit of confusion over what a dual carriageway is and hence the speed limit. I was under the impression that a dual carriageway just had to have a central reservation. The number of lanes being irrelevant. However, I have been on roads where the posted limit is NSL and there is a central reservation but at the point where the 1 lane becomes 2 there is a sign saying Dual Carriageway ahead. Does this mean the stretch with only 1 lane is not a dual carriageway and hence only a 60 limit? (Which would mean the number of lanes does matter...)
Bit confused!
Cheers,
Andy
I realise there is a fair bit of confusion over what a dual carriageway is and hence the speed limit. I was under the impression that a dual carriageway just had to have a central reservation. The number of lanes being irrelevant. However, I have been on roads where the posted limit is NSL and there is a central reservation but at the point where the 1 lane becomes 2 there is a sign saying Dual Carriageway ahead. Does this mean the stretch with only 1 lane is not a dual carriageway and hence only a 60 limit? (Which would mean the number of lanes does matter...)
Bit confused!
Cheers,
Andy
If you're on a road that has no speed limit signs, provided that the lamp posts are no less than 200 yards apart you can take it for granted that the limit is NSL - any less will have speed limit repeaters every few hundred yards.
Lamp posts less than 200 yards apart = 30mph unless otherwise indicated AFAIK.
Lamp posts less than 200 yards apart = 30mph unless otherwise indicated AFAIK.
All the definitions I can find are similar:
A dual carriageway or divided highway is a road or highway in which the two directions of traffic are separated by a central barrier or strip of land, known as a central reservation or median.
I don't remember ever seeing a 'dual carriageway ahead' sign when a dual carriageway changes from one lane each way to two lanes each way, but if I did I would suspect that the sign was wrong.
A dual carriageway or divided highway is a road or highway in which the two directions of traffic are separated by a central barrier or strip of land, known as a central reservation or median.
I don't remember ever seeing a 'dual carriageway ahead' sign when a dual carriageway changes from one lane each way to two lanes each way, but if I did I would suspect that the sign was wrong.
Legislation on speed limits is contained in Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 so to this Act one has look at what is defined as a "dual carriageway road". and it is so at Schedule 6 Part IV:
"D.C.R means a road part of which consists of a central reservation to separate a carriageway to be used by vehicles proceeding in one direction from a carriageway to be used by vehicle proceeding in the opposite direction."
Part 1 of same Schedule deals with the limits for private and goods vehicle etc on single and dual carriageways etc..
As far as I am aware there is no obligation on leaving a single carriageway (60NSL) to place a derestriction sign at its end and the start of the DCR with a 70NSL or to indicate the higher limit.
I suppose it is similar to the fact that a restricted road (30mph) with street lighting and absence of derestriction signs means 30, so the presence of dualing itself indicates the higher limit and reduction on leaving.
Consider the speed limit on an Interchange of a dual carriageway - does not fit the criteria of a DCR soo 60NSL and on leaving there are no signs to indicate the higher limit on reaching the DCR.
As to signing, there is only three signs in the Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002. All are purely informatory without direction as to display/ erection.
Sign 818.1 - Dual carriageway 2 miles ahead - distance to start of dual carriageway road ahead.
Sign 818 - Dual carriageway ahead - Section of dual carriageway road begins directly ahead.
Sign 818 1A - Dual carriageway for half or quarter mile. Distance over which a short length of dual carrieway road (which begins directly ahead) extends.
DVD
"D.C.R means a road part of which consists of a central reservation to separate a carriageway to be used by vehicles proceeding in one direction from a carriageway to be used by vehicle proceeding in the opposite direction."
Part 1 of same Schedule deals with the limits for private and goods vehicle etc on single and dual carriageways etc..
As far as I am aware there is no obligation on leaving a single carriageway (60NSL) to place a derestriction sign at its end and the start of the DCR with a 70NSL or to indicate the higher limit.
I suppose it is similar to the fact that a restricted road (30mph) with street lighting and absence of derestriction signs means 30, so the presence of dualing itself indicates the higher limit and reduction on leaving.
Consider the speed limit on an Interchange of a dual carriageway - does not fit the criteria of a DCR soo 60NSL and on leaving there are no signs to indicate the higher limit on reaching the DCR.
As to signing, there is only three signs in the Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002. All are purely informatory without direction as to display/ erection.
Sign 818.1 - Dual carriageway 2 miles ahead - distance to start of dual carriageway road ahead.
Sign 818 - Dual carriageway ahead - Section of dual carriageway road begins directly ahead.
Sign 818 1A - Dual carriageway for half or quarter mile. Distance over which a short length of dual carrieway road (which begins directly ahead) extends.
DVD
GreenV8S said:
I don't remember ever seeing a 'dual carriageway ahead' sign when a dual carriageway changes from one lane each way to two lanes each way, but if I did I would suspect that the sign was wrong.
We have this situation near us, a dual is restricted from double to single lanes in one or both directions at various points.
There are no dual begins/ends signs at those points.
Equally assume a dual, 2 + 2 + central reserve. You don't see dual begins/ends signs at each junction where there is a crossover point, even though strictly speaking there is no central reserve at that specific location.
So if the signs are as described by OP then they would appear to be incorrect.
Any chance of posting up a few pics? Or letting us know where it is?
FiF
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Sunday 26th June 15:55
Nickccc said:If the limit was incorrectly signed from side roads, enforcability might be an issue. One for DVD and our other well-informed bretheren:
This nearly mixed me up the other week.
I joined what looked like a DC (two lanes in each direction seperated by armco) accelerated up to 70ish, to then discover it was a 40!
It was not signed as I entered, I joined from country lanes indicated NSL.
Nick
If you enter a road and the sign at the entrance indicates one limit but you then notice one or more repeaters that indicates a lower limit ... when (if at all) does the lower limit apply?
Streaky
7db said:
I noticed yesterday on the A283 on the way to Goodwood many repeater signs were covered in plastic bags. With no streetlights, does this automatically make the road NSL? (or at least only enforceable as NSL?)
Does this mean some but not all repeaters were covered?
Seen this happen before in other locations when council are ahead of themselves in limit changes. Erecting signs so they are ready on the day the order comes into force.
Sadly what usually happens is that the bin liners get removed and you have a mess where nobody knows the limit.
It is arguable that on an incorrectly signed stretch of highway, in pure law the limit would revert to NSL when unlit, or 30 when lit.
Personally where the signing is illegal, and there are many stretches of highway which do fall into this category, then I try and work out what the council intend it to be and stick to that.
Don't know if that helps in your case, just what I do to remain Persil. Of course then I have a whinge at the council afterwards if road in our county.
FiF
I'm still confused.
The bits that get me are Leeds Ring Road from Lawnswood round to Seacroft... lots of urban dual carriageway and normal carriageway and all sorts.
Baically, if there is a central reservation between opposing direction traffic, no matter how big, wide or high, then it is classed as a DCR. This limit is national unless otherwise stated using repeaters. If no repeaters, then it's 60mph.
Say on my way to work, there is a 50mph wide road (Normanton by-pass). Then I hit a roundabout and go left towards the motorway junctions. There are two roundabouts after this one, with dual-carriageway between the,, with a kerb-high meter and a half wide central reservation down the middle seperating traffic.
There are no repeater signs, and no lamp-posts that I can see. Is this a national limit (60mph).
Is 70mph only on motorway grade roads? Does this mean that the A1 (DCR) was 60mph?
Dave
The bits that get me are Leeds Ring Road from Lawnswood round to Seacroft... lots of urban dual carriageway and normal carriageway and all sorts.
Baically, if there is a central reservation between opposing direction traffic, no matter how big, wide or high, then it is classed as a DCR. This limit is national unless otherwise stated using repeaters. If no repeaters, then it's 60mph.
Say on my way to work, there is a 50mph wide road (Normanton by-pass). Then I hit a roundabout and go left towards the motorway junctions. There are two roundabouts after this one, with dual-carriageway between the,, with a kerb-high meter and a half wide central reservation down the middle seperating traffic.
There are no repeater signs, and no lamp-posts that I can see. Is this a national limit (60mph).
Is 70mph only on motorway grade roads? Does this mean that the A1 (DCR) was 60mph?
Dave
Hmmmmm, so if the lights are more than 200 yards apart, and there are two lanes each way, with a physical barrier to stop you changing lanes, then it's 70mph.
If it's barrier with single lanes, then 60mph, like any other NSL main road.
So what if it's a dual carriageway with lights more often that 200 yards, say every 100 yards maybe?
Surely if it's a DCR then anything other than NSL 60/70 has to be posted, ie 30mph, 40mph, 50mph?
Dave
If it's barrier with single lanes, then 60mph, like any other NSL main road.
So what if it's a dual carriageway with lights more often that 200 yards, say every 100 yards maybe?
Surely if it's a DCR then anything other than NSL 60/70 has to be posted, ie 30mph, 40mph, 50mph?
Dave
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