Star on the bonnet
Discussion
The 1/18th scale model I have of a Willys MB has the star pointing to the windscreen. As far as I can remember from trawling thru' the Wills related web-sites...the star has always been that way.
However!! (update)..that just shows how good my memory is lol...must be my age or too much Cornish sunshine.....a quick look at Flatfender sites etc.,
an M38 A1 has the star pointing fowards, but a 1941 Slat Grill has it pointing to the 'screen I am now confused as well, so much so that I'm going to have to take to my bed and have a tablet.
>> Edited by driftwood on Sunday 26th June 15:30
However!! (update)..that just shows how good my memory is lol...must be my age or too much Cornish sunshine.....a quick look at Flatfender sites etc.,
an M38 A1 has the star pointing fowards, but a 1941 Slat Grill has it pointing to the 'screen I am now confused as well, so much so that I'm going to have to take to my bed and have a tablet.
>> Edited by driftwood on Sunday 26th June 15:30
seems the regulation star isn't on the bonnet after all, but much smaller and just a bit away from the base of the screen - so it can be seen when the winscreen is folded down!
;o)
www.hardscrabblefarm.com/car_club/1944mb.htm</a>
nice pictorial restoration of a Willys MB
and a more obvious set of pictures (a model)
www.m151a2.jp/toys/vc/mb1.html
>> Edited by boldfish on Sunday 26th June 16:34
;o)
www.hardscrabblefarm.com/car_club/1944mb.htm</a>
nice pictorial restoration of a Willys MB
and a more obvious set of pictures (a model)
www.m151a2.jp/toys/vc/mb1.html
>> Edited by boldfish on Sunday 26th June 16:34
Hi boys
Great pics, Boldfish!
I don't know if I would have followed the regs as my windscreen doesn't fold.
The way I see it is - There must have been hundreds and hundreds of GP's all over Europe and the States -including the one Sgt. Bilko uses and I can just see a G.I. from Brooklyn, with a stencil and not much knowledge of regs. - He would spray a star on the bonnet - any way up - then go for a coke to the ?? what is their name for the NAAFFI.?
Anyone else got a theory ??
Logibear
Great pics, Boldfish!
I don't know if I would have followed the regs as my windscreen doesn't fold.
The way I see it is - There must have been hundreds and hundreds of GP's all over Europe and the States -including the one Sgt. Bilko uses and I can just see a G.I. from Brooklyn, with a stencil and not much knowledge of regs. - He would spray a star on the bonnet - any way up - then go for a coke to the ?? what is their name for the NAAFFI.?
Anyone else got a theory ??
Logibear
Whilst I was trawling through I noted (but can't remember where that the star in a circle on the bonnet was post D-Day Invasion.
My theory is that if you didn't want to draw friendly fire you made sure your jeep was obviously USofA from 20,000 feet!
some more stuff:
# Flat White :
* Front & Rear unit markings on Front Bumper and Rear Bumperettes;
* Stars - Hood, Front Bumper, Left and Right rear 1/4 panel, and Rear panel on early jeeps without a Gas Can Rack.
o With exceptions being;
+ a short period from the end of 1941 to the first months of 1942 when White star with Blue or Red Ball in center was in use.
+ Also, a yellow star was authorized early in 1942.
+ Also, sometimes the "Gas / Blister Agent Detecting paint was applied to the Star on the hood.
* Flat white paint was also used in the field for hood numbers on jeeps;
o 1) If the jeep was rebuilt overseas, with a different or new replacement hood being put on.
o 2) If all hood markings had been covered over with OD paint to better camouflage the jeep for some covert mission. Once the mission was completed, the hood #'s were painted back on the hood in flat white.
o 3) Vehicles transferred to and from other branches of the service. (USA -->> USMC).
o 4) Stolen vehicles. A new or fictitious number would be painted on the newly 'acquired' vehicle.
from:
http://members.aol.com/brimiljeep/WebPages/JeepNamePage.html
and this:
The white, 5-pointed star, also known as "Invasion Star", was applied to ALL allied vehicles prior the invasion of Normandy (although it was also used in the Italian theater of operations). They came in a number sizes/variations:
Hood:
- 15", point 1,5" from dash, so it would be visible with windshield up & down (this was the place according to AR-850-5, although it was rarely applied this way in the field).
- 20", with a 4" band (5:1 ratio). Some had complete circles, others broken ones, and others had no circle at all. These seem to have been applied randomly, but if there was a circle it would probably have been the broken one because it was much easier to apply.
Sides:
6"; if a circle was applied it would also have been in a 5:1 ratio.
Bumper:
3". A circle would not fit at this place. Rear bumperettes: 2"
The sizes of the stars are not from point to point, but indicate the size of the circle the star will fit within. I have seen plenty original WWII photographs with jeeps that had stars applied up-side-down etc., so they seem to have been applied with no care taken at all, and jeeps with stars according to the book were a rarity. Sometimes the space between the star and a circle was painted a greenish yellow. This was a special paint that would change colour if there was any toxic gas in the air, thus warning the crew it was time to use the gasmask they probably discarded long ago. Templates to make these stars yourself can be requested from Jeepdraw (free). Info courtesy of Jon Rogers.
from:
www.geocities.com/earlymb/markings.html
confirms the theory that the regs said one thing and in the field you got whatever you got!
;o)
another interesting page with jeeps with huge stars!
www.oramagazine.com/archive/2004/july2004/DEPT/dept03/JULY04_DEPT03_01.asp
My theory is that if you didn't want to draw friendly fire you made sure your jeep was obviously USofA from 20,000 feet!
some more stuff:
# Flat White :
* Front & Rear unit markings on Front Bumper and Rear Bumperettes;
* Stars - Hood, Front Bumper, Left and Right rear 1/4 panel, and Rear panel on early jeeps without a Gas Can Rack.
o With exceptions being;
+ a short period from the end of 1941 to the first months of 1942 when White star with Blue or Red Ball in center was in use.
+ Also, a yellow star was authorized early in 1942.
+ Also, sometimes the "Gas / Blister Agent Detecting paint was applied to the Star on the hood.
* Flat white paint was also used in the field for hood numbers on jeeps;
o 1) If the jeep was rebuilt overseas, with a different or new replacement hood being put on.
o 2) If all hood markings had been covered over with OD paint to better camouflage the jeep for some covert mission. Once the mission was completed, the hood #'s were painted back on the hood in flat white.
o 3) Vehicles transferred to and from other branches of the service. (USA -->> USMC).
o 4) Stolen vehicles. A new or fictitious number would be painted on the newly 'acquired' vehicle.
from:
http://members.aol.com/brimiljeep/WebPages/JeepNamePage.html
and this:
The white, 5-pointed star, also known as "Invasion Star", was applied to ALL allied vehicles prior the invasion of Normandy (although it was also used in the Italian theater of operations). They came in a number sizes/variations:
Hood:
- 15", point 1,5" from dash, so it would be visible with windshield up & down (this was the place according to AR-850-5, although it was rarely applied this way in the field).
- 20", with a 4" band (5:1 ratio). Some had complete circles, others broken ones, and others had no circle at all. These seem to have been applied randomly, but if there was a circle it would probably have been the broken one because it was much easier to apply.
Sides:
6"; if a circle was applied it would also have been in a 5:1 ratio.
Bumper:
3". A circle would not fit at this place. Rear bumperettes: 2"
The sizes of the stars are not from point to point, but indicate the size of the circle the star will fit within. I have seen plenty original WWII photographs with jeeps that had stars applied up-side-down etc., so they seem to have been applied with no care taken at all, and jeeps with stars according to the book were a rarity. Sometimes the space between the star and a circle was painted a greenish yellow. This was a special paint that would change colour if there was any toxic gas in the air, thus warning the crew it was time to use the gasmask they probably discarded long ago. Templates to make these stars yourself can be requested from Jeepdraw (free). Info courtesy of Jon Rogers.
from:
www.geocities.com/earlymb/markings.html
confirms the theory that the regs said one thing and in the field you got whatever you got!
;o)
another interesting page with jeeps with huge stars!
www.oramagazine.com/archive/2004/july2004/DEPT/dept03/JULY04_DEPT03_01.asp
Hi again
Boldfish, I hand it to you.
We had a bit debate whether to have a full circle or a broken one. if you think about it, a stencil could not have a full circle. My partner, Lynda, wanted to draw the star so I let her make the decision and she painted the full one.
You say " randomly " which, joking apart, fits my Brooklyn GI theory - must be.
Was it the P.X where they went???
Logibear
p.s. A pic of mine is currently on Ebay - a red one - gallery pic is sheild shaped.
Logi
Boldfish, I hand it to you.
We had a bit debate whether to have a full circle or a broken one. if you think about it, a stencil could not have a full circle. My partner, Lynda, wanted to draw the star so I let her make the decision and she painted the full one.
You say " randomly " which, joking apart, fits my Brooklyn GI theory - must be.
Was it the P.X where they went???
Logibear
p.s. A pic of mine is currently on Ebay - a red one - gallery pic is sheild shaped.
Logi
Gassing Station | Jago Owners Forum | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff