20,000 new police officers
Discussion
Extra numbers are needed to replace those cut, especially in the Theresa May time as Home Sec..
It will be interesting to see if the increase happens and by how many.
Boris has a history even from his Mayor of London days of making promises that he either forgets or reneges on.
World beating track and trace is a recent one. Oven ready Brexit deal is another.
It will be interesting to see if the increase happens and by how many.
Boris has a history even from his Mayor of London days of making promises that he either forgets or reneges on.
World beating track and trace is a recent one. Oven ready Brexit deal is another.
We have response shifts where 80% of the Officers have less than a years service. To get numbers back to 2010 levels (not just those lost to May’s cull), but to cover the ever increasing numbers of early leavers and retirements, there needs to be 40000+ recruited.
The farcical new ‘degree’ process is a s
t storm waiting to happen. The training is laughable and they are being set up to fail.
That’s before you even consider the thousands of essential support staff that were lost during Aunty Theresa’s personal crusade
The farcical new ‘degree’ process is a s
t storm waiting to happen. The training is laughable and they are being set up to fail. That’s before you even consider the thousands of essential support staff that were lost during Aunty Theresa’s personal crusade
I worked in our ops room as a civvy. In an 8 year timescale we were correctly manned for one 6 month stretch, that being after a manager (civvy) from HR did an assessment and got the numbers up. They then continued to fluctuate, mainly shortage side again.
Training in call taking was minimal and learning on the job the norm.
As for the degree route mentioned above.....the NHS did (may still do) the same with Project 2000 (i think that was the title). Nurses did minimal in ward training but a lot of classroom based stuff on managerial, non hands on patient care content. They were useless on the wards. One part of the training included visits to rubbish tips/groundfill to see what they were. Mind you, many organisations used graduate intake to a fast track promotion system.
Training in call taking was minimal and learning on the job the norm.
As for the degree route mentioned above.....the NHS did (may still do) the same with Project 2000 (i think that was the title). Nurses did minimal in ward training but a lot of classroom based stuff on managerial, non hands on patient care content. They were useless on the wards. One part of the training included visits to rubbish tips/groundfill to see what they were. Mind you, many organisations used graduate intake to a fast track promotion system.
Fatball said:
All new recruits have to learn is how to deal with domestics, social work and concerns for welfare and anything risk based. The rest is left alone.
Until the country wakes up and does something about it, this is your police force.
This is the basis of the 'defund the police' argument. Support services have been cut and the police have become social workers, chasing their tails with low level issues and then get criticised for not 'catching the bad guys'. Until the country wakes up and does something about it, this is your police force.
By my maths, since 2010, there are now c.15,000 less police officers in England and Wales...
I know someone who is due to start in October with West Mids.
Practically all of the recruitment process was done online and via video call.(including interviews). I'm not sure if the force have even seen him/ met him in person.
The current initial training programme does appear a bit, er, brief (I've seen the schedule and it's nothing like what I did back in the early 90's) so this does seem more about getting bodies on the street as quickly as possible rather than imparting the knowledge and skills the new starters will need.
Practically all of the recruitment process was done online and via video call.(including interviews). I'm not sure if the force have even seen him/ met him in person.
The current initial training programme does appear a bit, er, brief (I've seen the schedule and it's nothing like what I did back in the early 90's) so this does seem more about getting bodies on the street as quickly as possible rather than imparting the knowledge and skills the new starters will need.
Edited by Red 4 on Sunday 27th September 21:42
May cut Police numbers by 22,000
Boris has announced 20,000 new cops.
So even then its less cops than 10 years ago.
What the politicians arent reminding you of is that in the early 90s there was a massive recruitment drive, all of whom (estimated 30,000) are due to retire in the next couple of years.
So despite 20,000 new Boris cops the service will have lost over 52,000 cops in the same time frame !!
Oh and no funding for extra buildings / cars / infrastructure / uniforms / equipment for the new cops.
And because of cuts to social services, youth workers, NHS, environmental health etc who do you think people call outside 0800 x 1600 Monday to Friday ??
Workload for cops has massively increased in the last few years and it must be one of the few jobs where you are not even legally entitled to a meal break ...you try being a response officer on 10 or 12 hour shifts run ragged from call to call all day, driving under response conditions and often getting 10 mins to grab a sandwich ...day after day after day.
My last post it was regular 60 -70 hour weeks, every week for weeks on end. My record 28 days consecutively worked.. minimum of 12 hour shift every one of those.
One last thought.. if you really think an extra 20,000 cops will appear do you also think the 40 new hospitals Boris promised will also appear...and if they do who is going to staff them ???
Boris has announced 20,000 new cops.
So even then its less cops than 10 years ago.
What the politicians arent reminding you of is that in the early 90s there was a massive recruitment drive, all of whom (estimated 30,000) are due to retire in the next couple of years.
So despite 20,000 new Boris cops the service will have lost over 52,000 cops in the same time frame !!
Oh and no funding for extra buildings / cars / infrastructure / uniforms / equipment for the new cops.
And because of cuts to social services, youth workers, NHS, environmental health etc who do you think people call outside 0800 x 1600 Monday to Friday ??
Workload for cops has massively increased in the last few years and it must be one of the few jobs where you are not even legally entitled to a meal break ...you try being a response officer on 10 or 12 hour shifts run ragged from call to call all day, driving under response conditions and often getting 10 mins to grab a sandwich ...day after day after day.
My last post it was regular 60 -70 hour weeks, every week for weeks on end. My record 28 days consecutively worked.. minimum of 12 hour shift every one of those.
One last thought.. if you really think an extra 20,000 cops will appear do you also think the 40 new hospitals Boris promised will also appear...and if they do who is going to staff them ???
edthefed said:
Workload for cops has massively increased in the last few years and it must be one of the few jobs where you are not even legally entitled to a meal break ...you try being a response officer on 10 or 12 hour shifts run ragged from call to call all day, driving under response conditions and often getting 10 mins to grab a sandwich ...day after day after day.
and even when you do manage it, somebody slags you off on social media (or even in the national press).Red 4 said:
I know someone who is due to start in October with West Mids.
Practically all of the recruitment process was done online and via video call.(including interviews). I'm not sure if the force have even seen him/ met him in person.
The current initial training programme does appear a bit, er, brief (I've seen the schedule and it's nothing like what I did back in the early 90's) so this does seem more about getting bodies on the street as quickly as possible rather than imparting the knowledge and skills the new starters will need.
My brother has done similar with Northumbria.Practically all of the recruitment process was done online and via video call.(including interviews). I'm not sure if the force have even seen him/ met him in person.
The current initial training programme does appear a bit, er, brief (I've seen the schedule and it's nothing like what I did back in the early 90's) so this does seem more about getting bodies on the street as quickly as possible rather than imparting the knowledge and skills the new starters will need.
Edited by Red 4 on Sunday 27th September 21:42
No medical or fitness test either. He would be lucky to pass either pre COVID as he has a very high BMI, is seriously unfit due to knee and back injuries and would never be able to do the bleep test. However they dont care. He will start in November and the plan is they will be on the streets by January at the latest and they will do the medical and fitness tests retrospectively when its feasible......
Mate is a cop in Northumbria and is a tutor on response and their team is majority probationer and no experience.
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 28th September 08:53
turbobloke said:
A good thing, any dissent?
The ad is something else however, with one example of nicking a suspect villain in an ocean of policeforce service activity. Are 'thief-takers' (21st century not 17th) also becoming a thing of the past in recruitment terms?
Sorting out a broken courts system, putting more staff into the CPS, probation and youth services doesn't scan so well in a political soundbite. The ad is something else however, with one example of nicking a suspect villain in an ocean of police
Great to have more coppers but it's tokenism, because everything that sits around is barely fit for purpose- too hard, too expensive, too fluffy whatever to win votes.
It’s not just 24/7 response where probationers make up the numbers. My substantive post is as a detective constable in a CID office. The establishment is one detective inspector, with three teams of a detective sergeant and ten detective constables per team - on paper.
The DI role has frequently been filled by DSs “acting up”/temporarily promoted. Some have been fine, some have been great, some have been... less than ideal. Two of the three DSs were also acting/temporary for quite some time. In the six years I’ve worked in the office, we have NEVER had the 30 DCs. At best, we have six or seven per team. Staff are off sick, on maternity/paternity, acting/temporary sergeant on 24/7 response, training, seconded to projects/departments, on leave, at court for weeks on end with complex jobs (because that’s what we investigate/deal with).
There was a recruitment drive for DCs a while back. No one applied. To be a DC, there’s a national exam then a portfolio to complete, as well as the initial CID course, which used to be six weeks, then it was five weeks and now it’s down to four... if you fail the NIE (national investigator’s exam) twice, you’re off CID. Well, you used to be. I know of officers that have had “several” goes at it. The shift pattern is better on response and people actually lose money moving from shifts to CID as they won’t get the unsocial hours allowance and they have to buy their own clothes, rather than all the uniform being provided. In my force, the only bits you have to buy yourself as a response officer are socks and pants. Everything else is issued, including boots (I had to buy my own boots when I first started).
About 18 months ago, there was one team in my office who were all trainee DCs. None of them had taken/passed the exam, most hadn’t done the course and none of them had more than 4 years in the job. It’s not fair to the public, it’s not fair to colleagues and it’s not fair to those officers. Some of them were incapable of even taking a statement or interviewing a suspect for a very basic offence. It’s down to me and my colleagues to try and train them on the job, at the same time as conducting our own investigations and managing our workloads.
Some forces are now recruiting direct entry DCs, which I feel is a disaster in the making. Everyone needs to do time on 24/7 response to understand the very basic nuts and bolts of police work and to understand things like securing a scene, recovering evidence, speaking to witnesses/suspects. These are very basic things, but they still need to be learnt. Direct entry DCs won’t have that bedrock of the basics and they won’t be any good as DCs as a result, at least not initially.
The DI role has frequently been filled by DSs “acting up”/temporarily promoted. Some have been fine, some have been great, some have been... less than ideal. Two of the three DSs were also acting/temporary for quite some time. In the six years I’ve worked in the office, we have NEVER had the 30 DCs. At best, we have six or seven per team. Staff are off sick, on maternity/paternity, acting/temporary sergeant on 24/7 response, training, seconded to projects/departments, on leave, at court for weeks on end with complex jobs (because that’s what we investigate/deal with).
There was a recruitment drive for DCs a while back. No one applied. To be a DC, there’s a national exam then a portfolio to complete, as well as the initial CID course, which used to be six weeks, then it was five weeks and now it’s down to four... if you fail the NIE (national investigator’s exam) twice, you’re off CID. Well, you used to be. I know of officers that have had “several” goes at it. The shift pattern is better on response and people actually lose money moving from shifts to CID as they won’t get the unsocial hours allowance and they have to buy their own clothes, rather than all the uniform being provided. In my force, the only bits you have to buy yourself as a response officer are socks and pants. Everything else is issued, including boots (I had to buy my own boots when I first started).
About 18 months ago, there was one team in my office who were all trainee DCs. None of them had taken/passed the exam, most hadn’t done the course and none of them had more than 4 years in the job. It’s not fair to the public, it’s not fair to colleagues and it’s not fair to those officers. Some of them were incapable of even taking a statement or interviewing a suspect for a very basic offence. It’s down to me and my colleagues to try and train them on the job, at the same time as conducting our own investigations and managing our workloads.
Some forces are now recruiting direct entry DCs, which I feel is a disaster in the making. Everyone needs to do time on 24/7 response to understand the very basic nuts and bolts of police work and to understand things like securing a scene, recovering evidence, speaking to witnesses/suspects. These are very basic things, but they still need to be learnt. Direct entry DCs won’t have that bedrock of the basics and they won’t be any good as DCs as a result, at least not initially.
pavarotti1980 said:
Red 4 said:
I know someone who is due to start in October with West Mids.
Practically all of the recruitment process was done online and via video call.(including interviews). I'm not sure if the force have even seen him/ met him in person.
The current initial training programme does appear a bit, er, brief (I've seen the schedule and it's nothing like what I did back in the early 90's) so this does seem more about getting bodies on the street as quickly as possible rather than imparting the knowledge and skills the new starters will need.
My brother has done similar with Northumbria.Practically all of the recruitment process was done online and via video call.(including interviews). I'm not sure if the force have even seen him/ met him in person.
The current initial training programme does appear a bit, er, brief (I've seen the schedule and it's nothing like what I did back in the early 90's) so this does seem more about getting bodies on the street as quickly as possible rather than imparting the knowledge and skills the new starters will need.
Edited by Red 4 on Sunday 27th September 21:42
No medical or fitness test either. He would be lucky to pass either pre COVID as he has a very high BMI, is seriously unfit due to knee and back injuries and would never be able to do the bleep test. However they dont care. He will start in November and the plan is they will be on the streets by January at the latest and they will do the medical and fitness tests retrospectively when its feasible......
Mate is a cop in Northumbria and is a tutor on response and their team is majority probationer and no experience.
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 28th September 08:53
A very short career ?
The lad I know didn't do a fitness test either and I believe "the medical" was a series of questions over the phone.
I know the Covid stuff has thrown a spanner in the works but it seems to me that the recruitment process has been pretty much binned compared to how it was.
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