Employee Notice Period

[Sump]

We had an issue with an employee continuously making mistakes. Worked for 15 or so years , was dismissed and so he's serviing a 12 week notice.

If the employee still makes mistakes during these 12 weeks notice period are we able to ask him to leave immediately?

[anonymous-user]

Just give him the money and tell him not to come back

[Scrump]

JPJPJP said:

Just give him the money and tell him not to come back

This

[Sump]

I can't afford to pay someone for 12 weeks and also hire someone new on top for those 12 weeks.

[Drumroll]

If they are so bad then surely you should have just dismissed them (following procedures of course)

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

I'm confused as to how someone can be dismissed but then working a 12 week notice period???

[Sump]

They were dismissed however a notice period still stands.

What they were doing doesn't fall under gross misconduct or summary dismissal. Thus they are entitled to their notice period which has ended up being 12 weeks as they've been with the company for 15 years or so.

Copied below:

Dismissing an employee
Employers usually must give employees at least the notice stated in the contract of employment or the legal minimum notice period, whichever is the longer. The legal minimum notice required to dismiss is:

one week if the employee has been employed between one month and two years
one week for each complete year of employment up to a maximum of twelve weeks. For example, for two years continuous employment the notice period will be two weeks, for six years continuous employment the notice period will be six weeks.
An employer can only dismiss without notice when something has happened that it considers to amount to gross misconduct. Gross misconduct is usually an incident that is so serious that there is no way the employment can continue.

Examples of gross misconduct could include:

theft
fraud
violence.
An employer should always follow a fair procedure when considering any dismissal.

[craigjm]

Sump said:

They were dismissed however a notice period still stands.

What they were doing doesn't fall under gross misconduct or summary dismissal. Thus they are entitled to their notice period which has ended up being 12 weeks as they've been with the company for 15 years or so.

This. Most companies would just pay them the 12 weeks and they leave immediately. If you can’t afford to do that and rehire then that’s your issue .

[Sump]

craigjm said:

Sump said:

They were dismissed however a notice period still stands.

What they were doing doesn't fall under gross misconduct or summary dismissal. Thus they are entitled to their notice period which has ended up being 12 weeks as they've been with the company for 15 years or so.

This. Most companies would just pay them the 12 weeks and they leave immediately. If you can’t afford to do that and rehire then that’s your issue .

Yes but my point is more if they continue to make mistakes during their notice period, surely there is a limit on how much you can accept with it.

[V8 Stang]

Not sure i would want a fired employee still working for me for 12 weeks!

The potential damage could far outweigh the notice pay.

[craigjm]

Sump said:

Yes but my point is more if they continue to make mistakes during their notice period, surely there is a limit on how much you can accept with it.

Well if they were making mistakes before then what did you expect to change in the notice period? Have you spent enough time trying to rectify the mistakes they make through training and coaching them? There isn’t really anything you can do unless you pay them their salary in lieu of notice. Anything else would be an unsafe dismissal.

[DoubleD]

This person will only get worse as the 12 weeks go on.

[Muzzer79]

Sump said:

craigjm said:

Sump said:

They were dismissed however a notice period still stands.

What they were doing doesn't fall under gross misconduct or summary dismissal. Thus they are entitled to their notice period which has ended up being 12 weeks as they've been with the company for 15 years or so.

This. Most companies would just pay them the 12 weeks and they leave immediately. If you can’t afford to do that and rehire then that’s your issue .

Yes but my point is more if they continue to make mistakes during their notice period, surely there is a limit on how much you can accept with it.

Only if they do something which constitutes gross misconduct.

If they are that bad, bite the bullet and pay them off - if they’re making that many mistakes, that are that crucial, it’ll be cheaper for you.

[Drumroll]

Sump said:

They were dismissed however a notice period still stands.

What they were doing doesn't fall under gross misconduct or summary dismissal. Thus they are entitled to their notice period which has ended up being 12 weeks as they've been with the company for 15 years or so.

Copied below:

Dismissing an employee
Employers usually must give employees at least the notice stated in the contract of employment or the legal minimum notice period, whichever is the longer. The legal minimum notice required to dismiss is:

one week if the employee has been employed between one month and two years
one week for each complete year of employment up to a maximum of twelve weeks. For example, for two years continuous employment the notice period will be two weeks, for six years continuous employment the notice period will be six weeks.
An employer can only dismiss without notice when something has happened that it considers to amount to gross misconduct. Gross misconduct is usually an incident that is so serious that there is no way the employment can continue.

Examples of gross misconduct could include:

theft
fraud
violence.
An employer should always follow a fair procedure when considering any dismissal.

Clearly you need to look at your dismissal procedures. Most companies would have theft, fraud and violence, as a reason for instant dismissal. But they would also have a procedure where someone's performance (or should I say lack of) is also a reason for dismissal. Whilst it wouldn't be instant dismissal, it usually goes, talk with line manager, formal talk with line manager (recorded on personnel file) written warning, final written warning. dismissal.

[Driver101]

An employee of 15 years and you suddenly want to sack them? What has changed? Do they not need some assistance rather than sacked?

They are bad enough to be dismissed, but still too valuable to pay off instantly?

[Sump]

craigjm said:

Well if they were making mistakes before then what did you expect to change in the notice period? Have you spent enough time trying to rectify the mistakes they make through training and coaching them? There isn’t really anything you can do unless you pay them their salary in lieu of notice. Anything else would be an unsafe dismissal.

I tried but the stem of the persons issue was first accepting that there was even something wrong in the first place. Made it difficult to even try rectifying, eventually we concluded the rectifcation was replacement.

Driver101 said:

An employee of 15 years and you suddenly want to sack them? What has changed? Do they not need some assistance rather than sacked?

They are bad enough to be dismissed, but still too valuable to pay off instantly?

No it isn't a sudden thing

[Sump]

DoubleD said:

This person will only get worse as the 12 weeks go on.

Indeed this is my thought. Unless he can do something that consistutes as gross misconduct.

[Driver101]

Sump said:

craigjm said:

Well if they were making mistakes before then what did you expect to change in the notice period? Have you spent enough time trying to rectify the mistakes they make through training and coaching them? There isn’t really anything you can do unless you pay them their salary in lieu of notice. Anything else would be an unsafe dismissal.

I tried but the stem of the persons issue was first accepting that there was even something wrong in the first place. Made it difficult to even try rectifying, eventually we concluded the rectifcation was replacement.

Driver101 said:

An employee of 15 years and you suddenly want to sack them? What has changed? Do they not need some assistance rather than sacked?

They are bad enough to be dismissed, but still too valuable to pay off instantly?

No it isn't a sudden thing

Why is his performance an issue after 15 years?

Has your disciplinary procedure highlighted issues before? Has the employee been offered assistance, help, training or support?

[craigjm]

Drumroll said:

Clearly you need to look at your dismissal procedures. Most companies would have theft, fraud and violence, as a reason for instant dismissal. But they would also have a procedure where someone's performance (or should I say lack of) is also a reason for dismissal. Whilst it wouldn't be instant dismissal, it usually goes, talk with line manager, formal talk with line manager (recorded on personnel file) written warning, final written warning. dismissal.

Yes but capability dismissals are dismissals with notice for them to be safe. That is the crux of the issue here as the OP is saying the notice period is continuing with issues. As said above most companies would avoid that through paying salary in lieu of notice and the person leaving immediately but not in this case as they can’t afford it

[Smurfsarepeopletoo]

What happens when the employee leaves, who will be doing the job then, as if you wait until the person leaves to employ someone else, then you are going to have to train that person up, so a period where no one is doing the job, or other employees are doing the job.

If its the latter, put them on gardening leave now, and then get the other staff to pick up the slack for a few weeks, and use that time to recruit and train.