Question for you PHEV drivers
Discussion
I am currently in the process of selecting a new company car.
I have tested the usual suspects. Passat GTE, 530e, c300e as well as the S90 T8 and S60 T8 Polestar engineered (Which is currently top of the want list). All of these test drives have been with a nice full battery charge, so great performance and mpg etc etc.
So what happens when the battery runs down? Do the cars keep charging them a little to maintain the power or do you lose the battery all together and left many HP short until you charge again?
I have tested the usual suspects. Passat GTE, 530e, c300e as well as the S90 T8 and S60 T8 Polestar engineered (Which is currently top of the want list). All of these test drives have been with a nice full battery charge, so great performance and mpg etc etc.
So what happens when the battery runs down? Do the cars keep charging them a little to maintain the power or do you lose the battery all together and left many HP short until you charge again?
stumpage said:
I am currently in the process of selecting a new company car.
I have tested the usual suspects. Passat GTE, 530e, c300e as well as the S90 T8 and S60 T8 Polestar engineered (Which is currently top of the want list). All of these test drives have been with a nice full battery charge, so great performance and mpg etc etc.
So what happens when the battery runs down? Do the cars keep charging them a little to maintain the power or do you lose the battery all together and left many HP short until you charge again?
A PHEV will self charge a little but to get any benefit you need to religiously plug in and keep the battery topped up. Once the battery is used you are just a normal ICE car lugging a big hefty battery around. This is why recent studies have suggested the emissions between PHEV and ICE are closer than advertised.I have tested the usual suspects. Passat GTE, 530e, c300e as well as the S90 T8 and S60 T8 Polestar engineered (Which is currently top of the want list). All of these test drives have been with a nice full battery charge, so great performance and mpg etc etc.
So what happens when the battery runs down? Do the cars keep charging them a little to maintain the power or do you lose the battery all together and left many HP short until you charge again?
Anecdotal tales of company car drivers taking a PHEV for tax purposes and never charging it abound!
Can only speak from experience with BMW PHEVs, but suspect other makes behave in a similar way.
The car never lets the battery fully drain. Depending on your drive setting ( Comfort / Eco etc ) it will keep the battery level at a minimum of between 3% to 9%, by recharging via the petrol engine, so you always have the electric boost available for acceleration or slow speed driving.
The only time this won't happen, is if you start the car from cold with say 3 or 4% battery. It will use some of this battery power to heat / cool the cabin and you'll get a message saying 'Electric Drive restricted'. However, after about a minute of normal driving with the petrol engine running, it will have topped the battery up enough to work as usual.
Hope this helps.
The car never lets the battery fully drain. Depending on your drive setting ( Comfort / Eco etc ) it will keep the battery level at a minimum of between 3% to 9%, by recharging via the petrol engine, so you always have the electric boost available for acceleration or slow speed driving.
The only time this won't happen, is if you start the car from cold with say 3 or 4% battery. It will use some of this battery power to heat / cool the cabin and you'll get a message saying 'Electric Drive restricted'. However, after about a minute of normal driving with the petrol engine running, it will have topped the battery up enough to work as usual.
Hope this helps.
Had a Golf GTE and I think the Passat works in the same way - there's a bit of reserve but it will feel pretty flat with an empty battery. There's always a bit of buffer there but something like a 0-70 up a sliproad will deplete it and tail off performance. If you use GTE mode it always tries to keep about 8-9 miles of electric range in reserve, including charging from the engine if necessary, so it's always ready to give good performance.
I found it doesn't really matter mpg-wise how you use up the battery as long as you aim to end each journey empty. Long trips I'd usually put it straight in hybrid mode (it defaults to EV only) and let it slowly drain it down, it's quite keen to shut the engine off if it can on the motorway or in traffic. If there's any left then switch to EV in the last few miles.
I found it doesn't really matter mpg-wise how you use up the battery as long as you aim to end each journey empty. Long trips I'd usually put it straight in hybrid mode (it defaults to EV only) and let it slowly drain it down, it's quite keen to shut the engine off if it can on the motorway or in traffic. If there's any left then switch to EV in the last few miles.
Edited by sjg on Monday 28th September 10:21
Ive got a 330e on order. The MPG when the batteries was a concern for me. On the demo i tried, I got pretty respectable MPG once the charge had run out. It was hovering around 41mpg on a run. Which was more than acceptable for me, the Passat GTE I tried was also pretty good at 46 mpg, we lose the fuel card if we go for a PHEV so I plumped for a 330e as you can claim back more per mile than the VAG offering due the engine size.
Granted it’s not the 55mpg that you could get with a 2.0 diesel, but 40mpg is still pretty cool.
Granted it’s not the 55mpg that you could get with a 2.0 diesel, but 40mpg is still pretty cool.
worsy said:
stumpage said:
I am currently in the process of selecting a new company car.
I have tested the usual suspects. Passat GTE, 530e, c300e as well as the S90 T8 and S60 T8 Polestar engineered (Which is currently top of the want list). All of these test drives have been with a nice full battery charge, so great performance and mpg etc etc.
So what happens when the battery runs down? Do the cars keep charging them a little to maintain the power or do you lose the battery all together and left many HP short until you charge again?
A PHEV will self charge a little but to get any benefit you need to religiously plug in and keep the battery topped up. Once the battery is used you are just a normal ICE car lugging a big hefty battery around. This is why recent studies have suggested the emissions between PHEV and ICE are closer than advertised.I have tested the usual suspects. Passat GTE, 530e, c300e as well as the S90 T8 and S60 T8 Polestar engineered (Which is currently top of the want list). All of these test drives have been with a nice full battery charge, so great performance and mpg etc etc.
So what happens when the battery runs down? Do the cars keep charging them a little to maintain the power or do you lose the battery all together and left many HP short until you charge again?
Anecdotal tales of company car drivers taking a PHEV for tax purposes and never charging it abound!
I charge mine when it's cold to pre heat.
I get 40 without charging, had had 50's in eco plus.
On a 90 mile trip to the office mainly motorway I have seen 65mpg when it's been charged.
The electric unit helps the petrol engine on the motorway hence getting better mpg.
I've got a previous model 330e (F30) just ticked over 50k and has had no issues apart from wanting coolent quite a lot.
Mine tends to stay around 15% charge when it's not been plugged in.
i've got a C300de, range on pure battery in real life works out as between 25-30 miles.
the Diesel hybrid delivers around 65-70mpg on long motorway cruises as well as recovering back into the battery, but slowly as it's typically designed just to conserve the battery level. Dropping into charge mode reduces the mpg by about 10mpg but i find that i've got enough left in the battery to finish on electric.
the C350e i had before i could only get around 40mpg on a long motorway cruise, which i assume will be similar to the C300e.
the Diesel hybrid delivers around 65-70mpg on long motorway cruises as well as recovering back into the battery, but slowly as it's typically designed just to conserve the battery level. Dropping into charge mode reduces the mpg by about 10mpg but i find that i've got enough left in the battery to finish on electric.
the C350e i had before i could only get around 40mpg on a long motorway cruise, which i assume will be similar to the C300e.
ks againWe had an i8 for a while so not your typical hybrid but a hybrid non the less
As others have said the car hangs in to a bit, and from memory the leve, was configurable. You can also control what happens. The i8 had a mode which was EV only and it wouldn’t start the engine dipping into the reserve, in sport it was the other way, petrol running and the battery charging until pretty full, in comfort it just balanced things out with a charge or range hold option which stopped the battery going lower (essentially freezes the battery level where it was when pressed). And if you used the sat nav it was said to hold back some battery for the parts of the journey that would benefit most. It was certainly more flexible and clever than a dumb system, but makes and models will implement these things differently.
There’s no non hybrid i8 equivalent but even driving hard in sport which really just used the battery as a performance boost we still got over 40mpg and a typical comfort drive would be 60mpg.
As others have said the car hangs in to a bit, and from memory the leve, was configurable. You can also control what happens. The i8 had a mode which was EV only and it wouldn’t start the engine dipping into the reserve, in sport it was the other way, petrol running and the battery charging until pretty full, in comfort it just balanced things out with a charge or range hold option which stopped the battery going lower (essentially freezes the battery level where it was when pressed). And if you used the sat nav it was said to hold back some battery for the parts of the journey that would benefit most. It was certainly more flexible and clever than a dumb system, but makes and models will implement these things differently.
There’s no non hybrid i8 equivalent but even driving hard in sport which really just used the battery as a performance boost we still got over 40mpg and a typical comfort drive would be 60mpg.
Edited by Heres Johnny on Tuesday 29th September 08:02
sjg said:
Had a Golf GTE and I think the Passat works in the same way - there's a bit of reserve but it will feel pretty flat with an empty battery. There's always a bit of buffer there but something like a 0-70 up a sliproad will deplete it and tail off performance. If you use GTE mode it always tries to keep about 8-9 miles of electric range in reserve, including charging from the engine if necessary, so it's always ready to give good performance.
I found it doesn't really matter mpg-wise how you use up the battery as long as you aim to end each journey empty. Long trips I'd usually put it straight in hybrid mode (it defaults to EV only) and let it slowly drain it down, it's quite keen to shut the engine off if it can on the motorway or in traffic. If there's any left then switch to EV in the last few miles.
I have a Passat GTE and would basically agree with this. Certainly with the battery flat or very close to flat it feels pretty slow. I do notice that ours will charge itself (slowly) cruising on the motorway or even on A roads. It seems to run the engine at it's max efficiency RPM if this is slightly higher than required for road speed and use the excess to charge the battery.I found it doesn't really matter mpg-wise how you use up the battery as long as you aim to end each journey empty. Long trips I'd usually put it straight in hybrid mode (it defaults to EV only) and let it slowly drain it down, it's quite keen to shut the engine off if it can on the motorway or in traffic. If there's any left then switch to EV in the last few miles.
Edited by sjg on Monday 28th September 10:21
We mostly do short distance journeys so ours is driven mostly on battery.
robbieduncan said:
I have a Passat GTE and would basically agree with this. Certainly with the battery flat or very close to flat it feels pretty slow. I do notice that ours will charge itself (slowly) cruising on the motorway or even on A roads. It seems to run the engine at it's max efficiency RPM if this is slightly higher than required for road speed and use the excess to charge the battery.
We mostly do short distance journeys so ours is driven mostly on battery.
That's why I'm liking the S60 Polestar Engineered. Petrol engine is 313bhp on its own so should have enough progress without battery assistance. We mostly do short distance journeys so ours is driven mostly on battery.
Heres Johnny said:
We had an i8 for a while so not your typical hybrid but a hybrid non the less
As others have said the car hangs in to a bit, and from memory the leve, was configurable. You can also control what happens. The i8 had a mode which was EV only and it wouldn’t start the engine dipping into the reserve, in sport it was the other way, petrol running and the battery charging until pretty full, in comfort it just balanced things out with a charge or range hold option which stopped the battery going lower (essentially freezes the battery level where it was when pressed). And if you used the sat nav it was said to hold back some battery for the parts of the journey that would benefit most. It was certainly more flexible and clever than a dumb system, but makes and models will implement these things differently.
There’s no non hybrid i8 equivalent but even driving hard in sport which really just used the battery as a performance boost we still got over 40mpg and a typical comfort drive would be 60mpg.
May I ask why you sold it. As I think the i8 is a good combo for long journeys and avoids range anxiety. As others have said the car hangs in to a bit, and from memory the leve, was configurable. You can also control what happens. The i8 had a mode which was EV only and it wouldn’t start the engine dipping into the reserve, in sport it was the other way, petrol running and the battery charging until pretty full, in comfort it just balanced things out with a charge or range hold option which stopped the battery going lower (essentially freezes the battery level where it was when pressed). And if you used the sat nav it was said to hold back some battery for the parts of the journey that would benefit most. It was certainly more flexible and clever than a dumb system, but makes and models will implement these things differently.
There’s no non hybrid i8 equivalent but even driving hard in sport which really just used the battery as a performance boost we still got over 40mpg and a typical comfort drive would be 60mpg.
Edited by Heres Johnny on Tuesday 29th September 08:02
rooflover said:
Heres Johnny said:
We had an i8 for a while so not your typical hybrid but a hybrid non the less
As others have said the car hangs in to a bit, and from memory the leve, was configurable. You can also control what happens. The i8 had a mode which was EV only and it wouldn’t start the engine dipping into the reserve, in sport it was the other way, petrol running and the battery charging until pretty full, in comfort it just balanced things out with a charge or range hold option which stopped the battery going lower (essentially freezes the battery level where it was when pressed). And if you used the sat nav it was said to hold back some battery for the parts of the journey that would benefit most. It was certainly more flexible and clever than a dumb system, but makes and models will implement these things differently.
There’s no non hybrid i8 equivalent but even driving hard in sport which really just used the battery as a performance boost we still got over 40mpg and a typical comfort drive would be 60mpg.
May I ask why you sold it. As I think the i8 is a good combo for long journeys and avoids range anxiety. As others have said the car hangs in to a bit, and from memory the leve, was configurable. You can also control what happens. The i8 had a mode which was EV only and it wouldn’t start the engine dipping into the reserve, in sport it was the other way, petrol running and the battery charging until pretty full, in comfort it just balanced things out with a charge or range hold option which stopped the battery going lower (essentially freezes the battery level where it was when pressed). And if you used the sat nav it was said to hold back some battery for the parts of the journey that would benefit most. It was certainly more flexible and clever than a dumb system, but makes and models will implement these things differently.
There’s no non hybrid i8 equivalent but even driving hard in sport which really just used the battery as a performance boost we still got over 40mpg and a typical comfort drive would be 60mpg.
Edited by Heres Johnny on Tuesday 29th September 08:02
worsy said:
A PHEV will self charge a little but to get any benefit you need to religiously plug in and keep the battery topped up. Once the battery is used you are just a normal ICE car lugging a big hefty battery around. This is why recent studies have suggested the emissions between PHEV and ICE are closer than advertised.
Anecdotal tales of company car drivers taking a PHEV for tax purposes and never charging it abound!
It basically becomes a self charging hybrid car. Anecdotal tales of company car drivers taking a PHEV for tax purposes and never charging it abound!
Ive had PHEV's for years enjoying the BIK incentives - mainly Outlanders. I think the bubble has / is bursting on the PHEV market now and will only go upwards on BIK. Ive gone full electric now to again enjoy the zero BIK incentive. I enjoy the savings but hate the car - hate electric full stop. These cars are just modes of transport - a pod to get you from A>B. Driving used to be fun so what I save goes on my weekend cars a Z4 and a 32 year old diesel land rover!!!
NS66 said:
worsy said:
A PHEV will self charge a little but to get any benefit you need to religiously plug in and keep the battery topped up. Once the battery is used you are just a normal ICE car lugging a big hefty battery around. This is why recent studies have suggested the emissions between PHEV and ICE are closer than advertised.
Anecdotal tales of company car drivers taking a PHEV for tax purposes and never charging it abound!
It basically becomes a self charging hybrid car. Anecdotal tales of company car drivers taking a PHEV for tax purposes and never charging it abound!
Ive had PHEV's for years enjoying the BIK incentives - mainly Outlanders. I think the bubble has / is bursting on the PHEV market now and will only go upwards on BIK. Ive gone full electric now to again enjoy the zero BIK incentive. I enjoy the savings but hate the car - hate electric full stop. These cars are just modes of transport - a pod to get you from A>B. Driving used to be fun so what I save goes on my weekend cars a Z4 and a 32 year old diesel land rover!!!
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