Leaking Loos Waste water
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54326178
"About 400 million litres of water are estimated to leak from UK toilets every day.
But much of this can be blamed on dual-flush toilets, designed to save water, the BBC has learned."
"Most dual-flush toilets use a drop valve system, which was allowed onto the UK market back in 2001 due to a change in regulations.
The Bathroom Manufacturers Association (BMA) admits the drop valve system is more prone to leakage than the traditional siphon.
The siphon, on the other hand, works when the flush handle forces a volume of water over a lip down into a tube linked to the pan."
The primary issue here is leaking 'drop valve' button type flush mechanisms, rather than the dual-flush aspect.
As detailed toward the end, syphon based dual-flush systems have been around a long time and do not have the issue of hard to detect leaks.
Daniel
"About 400 million litres of water are estimated to leak from UK toilets every day.
But much of this can be blamed on dual-flush toilets, designed to save water, the BBC has learned."
"Most dual-flush toilets use a drop valve system, which was allowed onto the UK market back in 2001 due to a change in regulations.
The Bathroom Manufacturers Association (BMA) admits the drop valve system is more prone to leakage than the traditional siphon.
The siphon, on the other hand, works when the flush handle forces a volume of water over a lip down into a tube linked to the pan."
The primary issue here is leaking 'drop valve' button type flush mechanisms, rather than the dual-flush aspect.
As detailed toward the end, syphon based dual-flush systems have been around a long time and do not have the issue of hard to detect leaks.
Daniel
Many of these environmental policies come under the heading "empty virtual signalling" and often do more environmental harm than good.
I would be happy to recycle as much as possible, not waste water, improve air quality, preserve green spaces as much as possible etc etc, but that isnt the real agenda.
I would be happy to recycle as much as possible, not waste water, improve air quality, preserve green spaces as much as possible etc etc, but that isnt the real agenda.
Edited by JagLover on Tuesday 29th September 13:07
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
I fitted a Gerberit look a few years ago and could not work it out, so spoke to Gerberit Customer Services who did not know etiher. They came back a week later telling me it is push and release the small button, but all that did was flush for the short time yuo pressed it. They did not believe me, as that was how it should work.....
They're a pain in the arse.
I fitted a Gerberit look a few years ago and could not work it out, so spoke to Gerberit Customer Services who did not know etiher. They came back a week later telling me it is push and release the small button, but all that did was flush for the short time yuo pressed it. They did not believe me, as that was how it should work.....
They're a pain in the arse.
poo at Paul's said:
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?amusingduck said:
poo at Paul's said:
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?JagLover said:
Many of these environmental policies come under the heading "empty virtual signalling" and often do more environmental hard than good.
I would be happy to recycle as much as possible, not waste water, improve air quality, preserve green spaces as much as possible etc etc, but that isnt the real agenda.
I'd say that's because the practical application of the policies is in the hands of people that don't give a monkey's.I would be happy to recycle as much as possible, not waste water, improve air quality, preserve green spaces as much as possible etc etc, but that isnt the real agenda.
amusingduck said:
poo at Paul's said:
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?I was a on the tools when these were allowed in, everyone knew they were going to be an infernal waste of time compared to what we had.
poo at Paul's said:
amusingduck said:
poo at Paul's said:
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?
amusingduck said:
That would annoy me far more than it ought to
Duravit CS told me to press the bottom button of the two that are the same size. When i asked, is the "bottom button" the "left one or the right one", they went very quiet, then said, it depends how you installed it! We all gave up years ago! I think the only one that vaguely makes sense if the Twyford Indulgence loo, with a small triangular button that is the small flush, but it is quite pitiful so needs the big one pushing even for a decent wee!
poo at Paul's said:
amusingduck said:
poo at Paul's said:
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?Sophisticated Sarah said:
poo at Paul's said:
amusingduck said:
poo at Paul's said:
I have 5 loos in the house, all of which are dual flush. I dont know hwo any of them work, what button to press to do what, so i just push both and hold them down each time i use it!
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?Sure are!!
ONe of the old duravit ones we had was a round button with a tiny square button in it, smaller than little finger. So you would think, prss the fiddly small one and low flush, but no! Press the bigger part of the button and the big part goes down, the little silly button stays up, half flush. For full flush, you pressed the silly little button and the WHOLE thing went down and did a full flush.
Did my head in!
ONe of the old duravit ones we had was a round button with a tiny square button in it, smaller than little finger. So you would think, prss the fiddly small one and low flush, but no! Press the bigger part of the button and the big part goes down, the little silly button stays up, half flush. For full flush, you pressed the silly little button and the WHOLE thing went down and did a full flush.
Did my head in!
amusingduck said:
Aren't they pretty self-explanatory? Small button, small flush. Big button, big flush?
Indeed, that system if unanimous, would be fairly simple.However there is a second system I have seen where the small button is too small to press allow and often 'within' the main/larger buttons.
The system there being, larger button allow for small flush, both buttons together for a full flush, which also works and fits within a smaller and more normal package.
Some also have two buttons the same, one with one dot and one with two, or one with a small dot and one with a larger dot.
None of this is complicated, but also becomes a mess fast. Its as bad as fitting a 'pull' handle to both sides of an office door.
poo at Paul's said:
Duravit CS told me to press the bottom button of the two that are the same size. When i asked, is the "bottom button" the "left one or the right one", they went very quiet, then said, it depends how you installed it!
To have two apparently identical, unmarked, buttons, does appear to be idiotic. However a quick google suggests that even within Duravit most of their models clearly have a either a clearly smaller and larger button, or a main and additional button system.As for water saving, it all depends on the corresponding size of each flush. If the large is 'normal' size and the smaller a reduced size, then even if often miss-used whenever correctly used, water will be saved. However if the larger flush is a a 120-150% flush and the smaller one a 50-60% flush, or both givens a very large flush, then rife miss use will increase water consumption.
However as per my opening post, all of this is by the by, if it leaks when not being flushed at all, which most do!
Dogwatch said:
This was known at the time the regs were changed to allow continental type cisterns. Brushed aside as inconsequential because EU.
Yes, its fairly rubbish really and should have been stopped. However, reverting, is still an option.JagLover said:
Many of these environmental policies come under the heading "empty virtual signalling" and often do more environmental harm than good.
I would be happy to recycle as much as possible, not waste water, improve air quality, preserve green spaces as much as possible etc etc, but that isnt the real agenda.
As said, the issue here is not the dual-flush, or any eco signalling at all, but the use of drop-valve seals rather than syphons.I would be happy to recycle as much as possible, not waste water, improve air quality, preserve green spaces as much as possible etc etc, but that isnt the real agenda.
The likes of 'dudley duoflush'. Syphon based systems where you get a smaller flush, unless you hold down for a longer flush, has been around since before I was born.
Daniel
Mine is installed wrong, I had it in bits to clean grit out of it and didn't know which way it went back. Mine has two separate chambers, the big button also takes down the small button so it does both chambers. By putting it the wrong way around it always does both chambers, so I've left it the way it is.
I'm getting a 3D printer for Christmas, if I can find a way to get a nice finish on it I might print a new single button that just replaces the two. Actually, I bet if you Google it someone will make those already.
I'm getting a 3D printer for Christmas, if I can find a way to get a nice finish on it I might print a new single button that just replaces the two. Actually, I bet if you Google it someone will make those already.
paulrockliffe said:
Mine is installed wrong, I had it in bits to clean grit out of it and didn't know which way it went back. Mine has two separate chambers, the big button also takes down the small button so it does both chambers. By putting it the wrong way around it always does both chambers, so I've left it the way it is.
I'm getting a 3D printer for Christmas, if I can find a way to get a nice finish on it I might print a new single button that just replaces the two. Actually, I bet if you Google it someone will make those already.
But why? Why not just correct it so you have a working dual-flush again?I'm getting a 3D printer for Christmas, if I can find a way to get a nice finish on it I might print a new single button that just replaces the two. Actually, I bet if you Google it someone will make those already.
Biggest issue with ours seems to be the buttons getting stuck. We did have to have one valve replaced due to leaking, but on the others in the house the buttons getting stuck is likely the cause of most water loss.
Crap designs. The old lever operated one never leaks and has a far better flush with minimal need for several flushes.
Crap designs. The old lever operated one never leaks and has a far better flush with minimal need for several flushes.
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