Accident with a horse
Discussion
Yesterday I was unfortunate enough to have an accident with a horse. However the police were not interested when I called later to report it (for the record) as an RTA.
The accident happened on a bridal pathway between 4 horses, 3 riders under training from the other, and my 7 yr old son on his bicycle. One of the training horses “side stepped” over to my son who was cycling slowly. I was about 10 feet behind. Suddenly the last horse became nervous, and kicks out with its back feet, knocking my son over. The riders all continue onwards. I cared for my son. Bruises immediately came up on his left leg and arm. Further examination (later), shows bruises on his upper arm, shoulder, both legs, and a graze to his shin, and a bicycle that is probably more in cost to put right (A bent pedal, broken chain, broken hand brake) than a new one.
I caught up with the riders, and told them what had happened, and the “teacher” was only willing to give me was her mobile number. I gave her my details but she took no note of them.
On returning home I called the police who stated that the Road Traffic Acts don’t apply to horses and bicycles involved in an accident, and that I should contact her myself to recover costs.
Judging from her language I doubt if I will get a bean.
So is true that the RT Acts apply only to motorised vehicles? Even the police had to call me back to “confirm” this. And what else can I do?
The accident happened on a bridal pathway between 4 horses, 3 riders under training from the other, and my 7 yr old son on his bicycle. One of the training horses “side stepped” over to my son who was cycling slowly. I was about 10 feet behind. Suddenly the last horse became nervous, and kicks out with its back feet, knocking my son over. The riders all continue onwards. I cared for my son. Bruises immediately came up on his left leg and arm. Further examination (later), shows bruises on his upper arm, shoulder, both legs, and a graze to his shin, and a bicycle that is probably more in cost to put right (A bent pedal, broken chain, broken hand brake) than a new one.
I caught up with the riders, and told them what had happened, and the “teacher” was only willing to give me was her mobile number. I gave her my details but she took no note of them.
On returning home I called the police who stated that the Road Traffic Acts don’t apply to horses and bicycles involved in an accident, and that I should contact her myself to recover costs.
Judging from her language I doubt if I will get a bean.
So is true that the RT Acts apply only to motorised vehicles? Even the police had to call me back to “confirm” this. And what else can I do?
Hope your son is alright,
Maybe you could get in touch with one of those "no-win no fee" compensation culture lawyers and get them do an honest days work for a change. At the very least they would be able to recover the cost of your sons bicycle and i expect that in this day and age they would be able to obtain compensation for teh emotional scars you son has endured as a result...
Good luck
Maybe you could get in touch with one of those "no-win no fee" compensation culture lawyers and get them do an honest days work for a change. At the very least they would be able to recover the cost of your sons bicycle and i expect that in this day and age they would be able to obtain compensation for teh emotional scars you son has endured as a result...
Good luck
If that's what happened then the mare should be shot (The one on the horse...) That is a disgusting attitude when your 7 yr old was hurt. The police didn't do themselves any favours either, that should be classed the same as if a dog attacked your child.
Hope the kid is ok though, could have been worse if it damaged the bike that much.
Hope the kid is ok though, could have been worse if it damaged the bike that much.
IIRC horses have right of way on bridal paths above all else (and I actually think the same applies to roads) so I doubt in the letter of the law you have a leg to stand on (pun not intended). I'm sure DVD can possibly correct me if I'm wrong.
It maybe worth tracking down the riding school and writing a stern letter and then approaching the local rag just to warn others. Son might be happy to get his piccy in the paper!
It maybe worth tracking down the riding school and writing a stern letter and then approaching the local rag just to warn others. Son might be happy to get his piccy in the paper!
I think it may be the case that an accident with a horse is not covered, especially if not on the road, unless the Horse owner has some type of insurance - I would think that a riding school must have some basic insurance though.
When my wife was young she had a horse that jumped over the fence from it's field and ran in to the road, colliding with a car and whilst her parents did pay for the damage to the car I don't think that they were obliged to do so legally.
Of course it may be different if the Horse is being ridden but I don't think you'll have any joy unless the rider/owner offers to pay.
>> Edited by catso on Monday 27th June 11:22
When my wife was young she had a horse that jumped over the fence from it's field and ran in to the road, colliding with a car and whilst her parents did pay for the damage to the car I don't think that they were obliged to do so legally.
Of course it may be different if the Horse is being ridden but I don't think you'll have any joy unless the rider/owner offers to pay.
>> Edited by catso on Monday 27th June 11:22
Sorry to read of this accident. Passing a horse always requires a lot of care, as they can be easily spooked, not that I'm implying your son didn't take such care.
But I'm afraid on a bridlepath it's a potential hazard, just as riding on a mountain bike track wiping out & knackering yourself is (as I have done).
I also have a 7 year old & I do sympathise with you both & wish your son a very speedy recover. I hope it will not put him off biking.
The Instructor should have public liability insurance, but short of trying to sue the Riding Instructor, I think I'd put It down to an unfortunate accident. Without having seen the accident, It's hard to comment, but it is sad that the Instructor wasn't more concerned. I got my love of speed from riding horses as a small kid on local farms. We always went out of our way to be courteous to other road users, when we used the lanes.
But I'm afraid on a bridlepath it's a potential hazard, just as riding on a mountain bike track wiping out & knackering yourself is (as I have done).
I also have a 7 year old & I do sympathise with you both & wish your son a very speedy recover. I hope it will not put him off biking.
The Instructor should have public liability insurance, but short of trying to sue the Riding Instructor, I think I'd put It down to an unfortunate accident. Without having seen the accident, It's hard to comment, but it is sad that the Instructor wasn't more concerned. I got my love of speed from riding horses as a small kid on local farms. We always went out of our way to be courteous to other road users, when we used the lanes.
I am VERY surprised by that.
Horses are exactly like cars with respect to insurance - to be allowed to drive on the road they MUST have it. As such, for any incident (be you in a car, bike, or on foot) you should be allowed to make a claim on the horse owner's insurance.
I had a coming together with a horse. Crossing one another down a single lane country road, 3 horses on my left (coming towards me) pulled in and stopped. I drove past very slowly as far away as I could. The guy on the lead horse adjusted his stirrups(sp?) which causes the horse to pummel the passenger side of my car with his legs! Put ruddy great dent in it (was my mum's old 205). He gave me his details and eventually we settled between ourselves - he gave us £300 and we agreed not to go through insurance, though found out that legally we were entirley able to.
I'm very surprised by the police's comments - perhaps a copper on here could comment more, but from my coming together with a horse it was understood they MUST have insurance.
Glad to hear your son is ok, could have been so much worse as horses are big things with a big kick (especially to a 7yr old!).
Good luck - and be sure to post what happens
Tony
Horses are exactly like cars with respect to insurance - to be allowed to drive on the road they MUST have it. As such, for any incident (be you in a car, bike, or on foot) you should be allowed to make a claim on the horse owner's insurance.
I had a coming together with a horse. Crossing one another down a single lane country road, 3 horses on my left (coming towards me) pulled in and stopped. I drove past very slowly as far away as I could. The guy on the lead horse adjusted his stirrups(sp?) which causes the horse to pummel the passenger side of my car with his legs! Put ruddy great dent in it (was my mum's old 205). He gave me his details and eventually we settled between ourselves - he gave us £300 and we agreed not to go through insurance, though found out that legally we were entirley able to.
I'm very surprised by the police's comments - perhaps a copper on here could comment more, but from my coming together with a horse it was understood they MUST have insurance.
Glad to hear your son is ok, could have been so much worse as horses are big things with a big kick (especially to a 7yr old!).
Good luck - and be sure to post what happens
Tony
I think your best bet would be to phone the woman and argue for the repairs. Its not going to be a lot of money, perhaps £20 or so for the broken bits. The pedal is easy to replace, just remember that the thread may be in the opposite direction depending upon which side of the bike its on.
Certainly not worth bothering in a legal sense IMO.
Personally, if I were 7 I'd be making capital at school from the "evil red-eyed horse that jumped up and down on my face and kicked 12 people across a field, before I managed to get it in a headlock and kill it" story.
Certainly not worth bothering in a legal sense IMO.
Personally, if I were 7 I'd be making capital at school from the "evil red-eyed horse that jumped up and down on my face and kicked 12 people across a field, before I managed to get it in a headlock and kill it" story.
Bah, horses have right of way on a Bridleway.
So what if one kicks you in the head? And you die?
"Ah well, the horse had right of way", "you should have moved well out of the way for it"
Why do horsie people get away with so much crap!
If you'd have been on scrambler bikes and bommed past at 30mph and the horse had bucked and thrown a girl off, then she'd have sued you!!!
Look at the woman who was thrown off when a C130 Hercules flew over near her horse!
If they can't control them, they shouldn't be on them!
If you have an agressive dog and it bites someone, it's the owners fault!
Should be the same with a horse. It is an animal under your control, and you should be responsible for it's actions.
A farmer who's stock gets on the road is liable for any accidents, so a bloody horse should be!
Seems like horsie people get it their way either way it goes
Dave
So what if one kicks you in the head? And you die?
"Ah well, the horse had right of way", "you should have moved well out of the way for it"
Why do horsie people get away with so much crap!
If you'd have been on scrambler bikes and bommed past at 30mph and the horse had bucked and thrown a girl off, then she'd have sued you!!!
Look at the woman who was thrown off when a C130 Hercules flew over near her horse!
If they can't control them, they shouldn't be on them!
If you have an agressive dog and it bites someone, it's the owners fault!
Should be the same with a horse. It is an animal under your control, and you should be responsible for it's actions.
A farmer who's stock gets on the road is liable for any accidents, so a bloody horse should be!
Seems like horsie people get it their way either way it goes
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Why do horsie people get away with so much crap!
Dave
My sentiments exactly. A few years ago I was out in my TVR on a country lane. I was following a car in front at about 40 MPH, with the roof down, not even trying to make progress. As we came round a corner I spotted a woman on a horse. The car in front pulled out and shot past, without even bothering to slow down....
I slowed down to a crawl and as I passed she shouted a load of abuse at me. How I managed to show some restraint I will never know....
The key point in this unfortunate accident is that it occured on a bridle path, definition of which is "A track in the countryside that you ride horses on."
No excuse for the instructor not to have been more concerned though. Still I guess you get bad riders as well as drivers!
I haven't ridden a horse since I was a kid, but I'm concious that they have been around as transport for man for longer than anything else. So I do respect them.
No excuse for the instructor not to have been more concerned though. Still I guess you get bad riders as well as drivers!
I haven't ridden a horse since I was a kid, but I'm concious that they have been around as transport for man for longer than anything else. So I do respect them.
a quick google finds :
Horse Insurance
Horse insurance and equine liability cover from Stoneways Insurance
IF YOU OWN OR ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A HORSE THIS AFFECTS YOU!
Due to a decision in the House of Lords you are now liable for any damage or injury that your horse does to other people regardless of whether you are negligent or not. So make sure you have third party liability insurance cover if nothing else.
Horse Insurance
Horse insurance and equine liability cover from Stoneways Insurance
IF YOU OWN OR ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A HORSE THIS AFFECTS YOU!
Due to a decision in the House of Lords you are now liable for any damage or injury that your horse does to other people regardless of whether you are negligent or not. So make sure you have third party liability insurance cover if nothing else.
old fogey said:
a quick google finds :
Horse Insurance
Horse insurance and equine liability cover from Stoneways Insurance
IF YOU OWN OR ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A HORSE THIS AFFECTS YOU!
Due to a decision in the House of Lords you are now liable for any damage or injury that your horse does to other people regardless of whether you are negligent or not. So make sure you have third party liability insurance cover if nothing else.
Many thanks for that.
I shall have a read on the way home tonight of that
www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldjudgmt/jd030320/mirva-1.htm
However, I'm sure I will have the problem the only details I have is a mobile number, and she was unwilling to give me her address then so is unlikely to give me her address over the phone.
Can I ask the police to call and demand her details for me ?
The question is - is a "bridleway" a road for the purpose of Road Traffic Acts. Being defined as a :
"highway over which the public have the following, not other, rights of way,that is to say, a right of way ON FOOT (this excluding motor vehicle) and a right of way on horseback, or leading a horse, with or without a right to drive animals of any description along the highway."
By excluding motor vehicles then IMHO it cannot be classed as a road for the purpose of reporting accidents (Section 170 RTA 88). In any case had it been a road then stopping and reporting apply "owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road". This was a cycle and a horse. Not covered.
I have a note - Subject to any orders made by a LA and to any Byelaw, the public, as a right of way, the right to ride a pedal cycle on any bridleway but cyclist MUST GIVE WAY to pedestrians and persons on horseback. (Section 30 Countryside Act 1968)
Because of the injury/damage aspect it might be prudent to have a session with a CB Solicitor as to a view whether a claim in the small claims Court would be likely to succeed. Surely wouldn't take much to trace the Riding school.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 27th June 15:22
"highway over which the public have the following, not other, rights of way,that is to say, a right of way ON FOOT (this excluding motor vehicle) and a right of way on horseback, or leading a horse, with or without a right to drive animals of any description along the highway."
By excluding motor vehicles then IMHO it cannot be classed as a road for the purpose of reporting accidents (Section 170 RTA 88). In any case had it been a road then stopping and reporting apply "owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road". This was a cycle and a horse. Not covered.
I have a note - Subject to any orders made by a LA and to any Byelaw, the public, as a right of way, the right to ride a pedal cycle on any bridleway but cyclist MUST GIVE WAY to pedestrians and persons on horseback. (Section 30 Countryside Act 1968)
Because of the injury/damage aspect it might be prudent to have a session with a CB Solicitor as to a view whether a claim in the small claims Court would be likely to succeed. Surely wouldn't take much to trace the Riding school.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Monday 27th June 15:22
Couldn't agree more, would it have still been fine for horsey type if this poor kid had been killed? Took my 7yr old out on her bike this evening, thinking about this topic & as she is only 7 & not a fantasticly skilled cyclist plus her bike is a bit big for her, what would be the situation if she damaged a car or caused any sort of accident? I would offer to pay for any minor damage caused but what if someone was hurt or a car written off.
Really have no clue with regard to kids on their bikes, certainly have no specific insurance for such an eventuality.
Really have no clue with regard to kids on their bikes, certainly have no specific insurance for such an eventuality.
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