BMW M 1000RR

[Triaguar]

Pal of mine just ordered one of these at £35000 on the road. It will be a road only bike. We are having the discussion about why he has done so. My argument is that it is meant as a race bike and will (should) be the starting point for someone to use as a track bike, be that amateur or professional. For the racey people among us how many do you think will be used purely as a race machine.

(No comments on price please in these circumstances it's an irrelevance)

[mickymellon1]

that he wants one is reason enough

I've been riding the M package quite a bit and before getting the ecu flash done (and invalidating the warranty) I found the engine very underwhelming, that the M sport version pushes the peak torque & power further up the revs is imho a waste on a road bike but the handling is better than any bike I've been on ever - Honda have gone a similar route with an eye on racing results with the new fireblade too

just pick another 1000cc sportsbike from a K5 GSXR1000 onwards to leave them on a ride out and should have got a V4S or R

[LF5335]

Triaguar said:

Pal of mine just ordered one of these at £35000 on the road. It will be a road only bike. We are having the discussion about why he has done so. My argument is that it is meant as a race bike and will (should) be the starting point for someone to use as a track bike, be that amateur or professional. For the racey people among us how many do you think will be used purely as a race machine.

(No comments on price please in these circumstances it's an irrelevance)

Why not? Within an hour of them being released my local dealer was on the phone to discuss it. I think sports bikes on the road are beyond me now though. It’s a homologation special for WSB, just like Ducati release almost every other month, or others do as SP models.

Many will be bought and stored, some bought and raced by the top end club racers, some will appear on the road and be ridden however the owner wants to ride them. No sportsbike makes any sense on the road nowadays and haven’t done for decades. However, since when did logic make any difference to what people buy? It’s a special buy for someone who can afford one, let him enjoy it.

mickymellon1 said:

that he wants one is reason enough

I've been riding the M package quite a bit and before getting the ecu flash done (and invalidating the warranty) I found the engine very underwhelming, that the M sport version pushes the peak torque & power further up the revs is imho a waste on a road bike but the handling is better than any bike I've been on ever - Honda have gone a similar route with an eye on racing results with the new fireblade too

just pick another 1000cc sportsbike from a K5 GSXR1000 onwards to leave them on a ride out and should have got a V4S or R

I don’t understand this answer. How have you been riding the M? It was only announced less than a fortnight ago and dealers are only just ordering stock with a lengthy lead time. This isn’t the M-sport version, it’s a different bike, much like the true M cars aren’t comparable to the M sport badged normal cars.

I had a run on the S1000RR a feel weeks ago and it was amazing, miles better than my previous version and felt lighter more agile than my Gen 3 SuperStock spec race bike, so not sure why you think it’s so poor. The engine power and delivery was incredible, apart from low down, but then all bikes are like that to beat emissions and shouldn’t be judged on that.

Your comment about buying a V4S or V4R says it all. They’re just as compromised a bike for the road and just created, like this M1000RR, to scrape through WSB homologation rules.

[WarnieV6GT]

The M 1000 rr is sold as a road bike. It is not an HP4 race.

It will have cruise and heated grips. Yes it makes no sense for the road but neither do any of the sportsbikes on sale now.

If he's ordered one at £35k then money is obviously not a huge issue for him so why not. I imagine it will hold a lot of its value come resale anyway.

[Carl-H]

Can't see the problem myself. If I had that sort of money spare I'd have one for the road and something cheaper for the track. They'll be great for race teams and hopefully bring BMW up a bit, but for an average rider or trackday rider? No need. May as well show it off tootling round on the road

[Ho Lee Kau]

Cruise control and heated grips and wind protection - how is that not a road bike?
Who says 1000cc sportsbikes have to be pushed into take off speed bracket on the street?

I rode S1000RR M Package last year.
It was an amazing bike.
Very light, comfortable, beautiful instrumentation, heated grips, cruise control, sweet fueling, power certainly way over the top for the street.
Imho lacks a bit of character, sounds so-so and looks...well, this is all subjective.

[Triaguar]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Cruise control and heated grips and wind protection - how is that not a road bike?
Who says 1000cc sportsbikes have to be pushed into take off speed bracket on the street?

I rode S1000RR M Package last year.
It was an amazing bike.
Very light, comfortable, beautiful instrumentation, heated grips, cruise control, sweet fueling, power certainly way over the top for the street.
Imho lacks a bit of character, sounds so-so and looks...well, this is all subjective.

It's the M 1000RR not the S with M package that is a mainly cosmetic package. This is a new bike. We were merely discussing that as it is an homologation vehicle how many would be street bikes and how many would be track only

[Ho Lee Kau]

Triaguar said:

...It will be a road only bike. We are having the discussion about why he has done so....

my answer to this discussions of yours is why not

[Ho Lee Kau]

Triaguar said:

It's the M 1000RR not the S with M package that is a mainly cosmetic package. This is a new bike. We were merely discussing that as it is an homologation vehicle how many would be street bikes and how many would be track only

carbon wheels are cosmetic, but only on M package, not on M1000RR?

or you mean M animation in the instrumentation of M1000RR is not cosmetic?

[Esceptico]

Wasn’t aware of this bike. Looked at BMW site. Struggling to see why this is almost 50% more expensive than the base S1000RR as there doesn’t seem much difference (looks or performance). Given that the base bike is so good I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.

If I were spending £35k I would rather buy something that would be more distinctive eg RC30 or R7.

[LF5335]

It’s a completely different bike in terms of engine intervals, wings, and other trick bits that they’ve added. It’s a homologation bike, nothing else. They have to sell a fixed amount of units and be priced under €40,000 to be acceptable. Ducati do it all the time with their S, R, FE, Tricolore and every other bloomin edition they’ve randomly created to allow them to add some thing to their race bike.

However, as before just because these are sold as road bikes doesn’t mean they are good road bikes. They are massively compromised due to the race focus, just as plenty love their GT3 RS on the road, but they’re a far worse car than a 911 Turbo in terms of useability / practicality on the road, if you could ever claim that a 911 turbo is practical.

One thing to repeat again. The M1000RR, is not the S1000RR M Sport package. It is a different bike. Look at the specs both internal and external and it should be obvious. However, that shouldn’t stop someone buying one because they want to. I doubt people would be so opposed to it if was yet another iteration of a Ducati.

[Esceptico]

It might be a different bike but apart from the wings and prominent use of M it looks pretty much the same in photos to the standard S 1000 RR. 5 bhp more power and 5 kg less weight also doesn’t sound like much. Not really comparable to a V4R (completely different engine to standard Panigale) or the Superleggera versions - or particularly the Desmo, which was a stand-alone bike.

[LF5335]

Esceptico said:

It might be a different bike but apart from the wings and prominent use of M it looks pretty much the same in photos to the standard S 1000 RR. 5 bhp more power and 5 kg less weight also doesn’t sound like much. Not really comparable to a V4R (completely different engine to standard Panigale) or the Superleggera versions - or particularly the Desmo, which was a stand-alone bike.

The Desmo is a red herring, as I didn’t mention that and it’s nearly 15 years old now. Accept the V4R is a different engine, but the rest are all just variations on a theme, much like this M1000RR is. It’s a homologation special, every manufacturer does it. ZX10RRRRR winter test edition, CBR1000RR SP, R1M, GSXRRRRR and so on. It’s nothing new, it’s very expensive, but if someone wants to buy one why not? It might become a collectors item, it probably won’t and it probably won’t be great on the road, as it’s very track focussed. So what? People buy all the compromised specials I’ve mentioned and nobody gets too upset about that.

[rodericb]

V4R engine isn't that different to the V4. About as different as R's and SP's get. It's not like it's a V2, nonetheless there's differences in them which mean that a few major bits of the engine are quite different (i.e. the pistons....). The Superleggera is a red herring as that's just something Ducati could do, because they can (and people love that kind of thing).

Edit: I had of a read of an article of the M1000RR and I was looking for huge things which would turn a S1000RRR into a pig on the road but didn't find anything. Less friction, racier steering, fancy front brakes and carbon fibre fillets in the fairings (whooooo.....). I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the S and the M if you covered up the badges.

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 6th October 14:20

[mickymellon1]

LF5335 said:

I don’t understand this answer. How have you been riding the M? It was only announced less than a fortnight ago and dealers are only just ordering stock with a lengthy lead time. This isn’t the M-sport version, it’s a different bike, much like the true M cars aren’t comparable to the M sport badged normal cars.

spent a lot of time on the S1000RR M Package - its very similar

I had a run on the S1000RR a feel weeks ago and it was amazing, miles better than my previous version and felt lighter more agile than my Gen 3 SuperStock spec race bike, so not sure why you think it’s so poor. The engine power and delivery was incredible, apart from low down, but then all bikes are like that to beat emissions and shouldn’t be judged on that.

I found it weak coming from an old R1 and my current Superduke - the M1000RR moves the peak power and torque further up the revs = weaker low / mid range

Your comment about buying a V4S or V4R says it all. They’re just as compromised a bike for the road and just created, like this M1000RR, to scrape through WSB homologation rules.

The BMW wouldn't make it into my top 10 due to the engine.

Edited by mickymellon1 on Tuesday 6th October 17:31

[LF5335]

rodericb said:

V4R engine isn't that different to the V4. About as different as R's and SP's get. It's not like it's a V2, nonetheless there's differences in them which mean that a few major bits of the engine are quite different (i.e. the pistons....). The Superleggera is a red herring as that's just something Ducati could do, because they can (and people love that kind of thing).

Edit: I had of a read of an article of the M1000RR and I was looking for huge things which would turn a S1000RRR into a pig on the road but didn't find anything. Less friction, racier steering, fancy front brakes and carbon fibre fillets in the fairings (whooooo.....). I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the S and the M if you covered up the badges.

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 6th October 14:20

They’ve done some stuff to the engine too. I’m not sure exactly what, as I'm not technical. I’m also not defending this bike at all costs. Personally, I think it’s stupid money for a bike, but if you’ve got it spare then I don’t see why people shouldn’t buy it. Most would struggle to tell most bikes within each genre apart nowadays as they’re all so close to each other in size and performance.

https://riders.drivemag.com/news/bmw-m1000rr-revea...

I don’t think it’ll be a pig on the road, but it won’t be as easy to use and ride as a more sensible sit up or naked for example. All sports bikes are a pain to ride to ride on the road if we’re honest and the more track focussed they get, the less road friendly they get.

mickymellon1 said:

spent a lot of time on the S1000RR M Package - its very similar

I found it weak coming from an old R1 and my current Superduke - the M1000RR moves the peak power and torque further up the revs = weaker low / mid range

Your comment about buying a V4S or V4R says it all. They’re just as compromised a bike for the road and just created, like this M1000RR, to scrape through WSB homologation rules.

The BMW wouldn't make it into my top 10 due to the engine.

Edited by mickymellon1 on Tuesday 6th October 17:31

The engine is full of different internals, different exhaust system, different chassis and so on. It’s like saying a chipped BMW 340i is pretty much the same as an M3. It’s not, the performance on paper may appear similar, but they’re very different.

You’re welcome to your view on the S1000RR, but until any of us have ridden the M1000RR we can't pass comment on the engine and how it feels.

[towser44]

Reading this thread, I think BMW's biggest problem is going to be making people aware this bike is different to and is not the existing S1000RR M-Sport package whatever ha ha!

[AdamIndy]

rodericb said:

V4R engine isn't that different to the V4. About as different as R's and SP's get. It's not like it's a V2, nonetheless there's differences in them which mean that a few major bits of the engine are quite different (i.e. the pistons....). The Superleggera is a red herring as that's just something Ducati could do, because they can (and people love that kind of thing).

Edit: I had of a read of an article of the M1000RR and I was looking for huge things which would turn a S1000RRR into a pig on the road but didn't find anything. Less friction, racier steering, fancy front brakes and carbon fibre fillets in the fairings (whooooo.....). I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the S and the M if you covered up the badges.

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 6th October 14:20

Isn’t the “standard” V4 a 1200cc and the “R” model 1000? Or am I just making that up?

[Esceptico]

AdamIndy said:

rodericb said:

V4R engine isn't that different to the V4. About as different as R's and SP's get. It's not like it's a V2, nonetheless there's differences in them which mean that a few major bits of the engine are quite different (i.e. the pistons....). The Superleggera is a red herring as that's just something Ducati could do, because they can (and people love that kind of thing).

Edit: I had of a read of an article of the M1000RR and I was looking for huge things which would turn a S1000RRR into a pig on the road but didn't find anything. Less friction, racier steering, fancy front brakes and carbon fibre fillets in the fairings (whooooo.....). I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the S and the M if you covered up the badges.

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 6th October 14:20

Isn’t the “standard” V4 a 1200cc and the “R” model 1000? Or am I just making that up?

The standard is 1100 and the R is 1000. I believe they are quite different engines (apart from both being V4). The R has more power - partly because the Rev limit is 3000 higher than the 1100. Compare that with the M 1000 RR where the Rev limit is just 500 higher.

[epom]

If you’ve got the cash and you want to buy it, then go for it.
Most (not all) will hardly be able to scratch the surface of the “basic” S1000RR on the road either.

Go with what you want.