losing the rear wheel

[rexwexford.]

I'm into my first winter of biking, although ive had a licence for coming up for 2 years. I didnt get to do as much riding as i hoped in my first year but looking to rectify that now and keep it for commuting over winter.

I had the uneasy feeling of the back end stepping out in the wet on a roundabout the other day for the first time. I wasnt going particularly quickly (conscious that it was wet + i had moments before been thinking i havent done much wet riding..) but was starting to open the throttle as i saw the exit. It probably only slid a few inches and i managed to just keep looking where i wanted to go and rectify it.

tyres seem good, and i'm on a fairly low powered bike. it was within the first 10 mins of riding so cold tyres maybe or something on the road, or maybe just terrible judge of conditions.

what im wondering is how common place is this? it didnt feel like something id want to experience regularly...

how close on a scale of 'happens occasionally dont sweat it' to 'very nearly dead' would you place this?

ta

[archie456]

It happens occasionally don't sweat it.

Better that you experienced it and caught it, rather than it not having happened at all.

Riding smoothly in the wet will mean that you will likely have time to react before it all goes wrong.

[hiccy18]

This is the time of the year when roads are very slippery as temperatures drop and all the grease and dirt has built up over the summer in time for autumn rains to make it slick. Even up here in deep fried mars bar land there's not enough rain to clear the grease away and enough dry time to top it all back up again. Add in tyres taking longer to warm up (as you've identified) and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Accept that there is less traction, keep it smooth and avoid the particularly greasy looking stuff, after a few weeks there should be enough rain pissing down that it will just be soaking tarmac and maybe frost and ice to worry about, you'll probably be going a bit faster. Come spring you'll be wondering where the corners in your squared off tyres have appeared from.

[black-k1]

Definitely at the 'happens occasionally dont sweat it' end of the scale. As has been said, be smooth and apply power, brakes etc. gently and progressively.

[Pothole]

You caught it. Winning!!

[BritVsRedneck]

Can you find some gravel roads to practice on? The loose feeling is the norm and you get used to shifting your bodyweight around to control the grip.

On some bikes I've ridden on gravel that's almost the only way to turn! In a turn; loosey goosey grip on the bars, keep body as vertical as you can, move your ass to the side of the seat, keep inside arm straight, don't drop the inside shoulder, almost counter steer the bike, throttle out the corner.

I ride a KTM 200 XC-W off road, hare scrambles, hard enduro, dual sports etc
BMW F650 GS for gravel roads and adventure riding type stuff.

[rexwexford.]

thanks for all the replies.

so something you dont want to happen but can happen if you're bit lazy with the inputs then. I suppose its a bit like finding the difference in grip level in wet and dry in a car, only the margin for error is a lot smaller on a bike.

its a transalp actually so ive done a few gravel tracks in scotland and wales on it. My gfs drive is gravel actually and its badly laid so its really deep in the places that dont get used much (i.e where i have to put the bike to keep her happy).

maybe ive honed some skills from that daily rigmarole haha

[Piersman2]

rexwexford. said:

I suppose its a bit like finding the difference in grip level in wet and dry in a car, only the margin for error is a lot smaller on a bike.

This.

You just can't throw a bike around in the wet like you can in the dry especially at this time of the year.

You almost have to re-learn where the limits are all over again at each bend when the roads are wet as the difference in road surfaces between wet and dry can vary so tremendously.

For example, wet , smooth manhole covers are like ice in the wet, the tarmac around them still has decent grip though. Can make hitting a manhole cover on a long sweeping a-road bend a proper heart stopping moment!

And white lines, wet white lines can cause a wobble too.

Just accept that in the wet you're going to feel like you're tip-toeing round the bends; smooth in, smooth out!

[ssray]

What bike and what tyres? Tyres make a Huge difference in the wet

[V8RX7]

I'm used to it off road and it's happened a few times on road, without a problem but I took my bike for an MOT 5 miles from home - got there no issue but went to pull out from the Industrial Estate and my bike went completely sideways got my foot down to stop it falling, let off then reapplied power - it did it again

Never had it happen before, I presumed diesel or something but there was nothing obvious on the road nor on the tyre, as I went up the hill I blipped the throttle to test grip - it span.

I crept home wondering WTF was wrong

and found nothing obvious

[Chipchap]

If the bike has enough torque then try riding one gear higher through corners and roundabouts when its wet or greasy. This makes the bike more docile.

Avoid using big throttle openings, be smooth on all the controls, be early but gentle on the brakes. Make sure everything is in good condition such as tyre pressures and tread.

HTH

Allan

[jjones]

ssray said:

What bike and what tyres? Tyres make a Huge difference in the wet

This

[Rubin215]

Where is BN?

He's the man to ask about losing the rear end isn't he...?

[Esceptico]

Don’t sweat it. Rear spinning is generally fine. Got to be more worried about losing the front as not so easy to save (unless you are MM). I would still check your tyres though - age, wear, type and pressure. Buying new tyres cheaper than crashing.

[rexwexford.]

ssray said:

What bike and what tyres? Tyres make a Huge difference in the wet

its got the tyres that came on the bike - avon distanzia's on them. which i think are/were fairly average ?

they have plenty of tread. but worryingly ive just googled for reviews and they were discontinued in 2016 so at least four years old.

might be getting my answer here ...

[Donbot]

Four years is nothing.

Though the date of manufacture will be on the tyre.

I start to get concerned when they are over ten years

[pessimal]

Buy some decent tyres, might cost more than you want to spend, but definitely worth it

[AdamIndy]

rexwexford. said:

its got the tyres that came on the bike - avon distanzia's on them. which i think are/were fairly average ?

they have plenty of tread. but worryingly ive just googled for reviews and they were discontinued in 2016 so at least four years old.

might be getting my answer here ...

For what it’s worth, I’ve never ridden on them but I’ve never heard a single good word about Avon tyres on a bike. Their car tyres are average at best. I know there is a lot of cock waving in the bike world but not everyone can be wrong surely? Maybe someone here can vouch for them?

Having a bit of slide will strengthen up the rectum no end. Especially on the road where the surface is so changeable. You kept it upright so you are practically Marc Marquez now.

The first time I got a (proper) slide was at around 120mph at portimao on a destroyed Bridgestone R11. Not willy waving at all but I was actually hugely surprised how easily the bike pretty much corrected itself. I shat myself so it certainly wasn’t me that saved it!

[Kent Border Kenny]

rexwexford. said:

I'm into my first winter of biking, although ive had a licence for coming up for 2 years. I didnt get to do as much riding as i hoped in my first year but looking to rectify that now and keep it for commuting over winter.

I had the uneasy feeling of the back end stepping out in the wet on a roundabout the other day for the first time. I wasnt going particularly quickly (conscious that it was wet + i had moments before been thinking i havent done much wet riding..) but was starting to open the throttle as i saw the exit. It probably only slid a few inches and i managed to just keep looking where i wanted to go and rectify it.

tyres seem good, and i'm on a fairly low powered bike. it was within the first 10 mins of riding so cold tyres maybe or something on the road, or maybe just terrible judge of conditions.

what im wondering is how common place is this? it didnt feel like something id want to experience regularly...

how close on a scale of 'happens occasionally dont sweat it' to 'very nearly dead' would you place this?

ta

The grip varies, hugely, on normal roads.

Overbanding, manhole covers, grooves from lorries, gravel in the middle, diesel, damp, ice, leaves...

You’ll learn to spot quite well what’s ahead of you, meaning that unless you are pushing on you shouldn’t often lose the rear, but if you do, it’s normally OK.

One way to help is to ride in a lower gear. When the wheel slips the engine will spin up above the torque peak, acting as a kind of traction control.

In a higher gear, at low revs, you’ll be using more throttle for a given amount if acceleration, and a slip takes the engine into the meat of the torque, keeping it spinning for longer.

[pip t]

pessimal said:

Buy some decent tyres, might cost more than you want to spend, but definitely worth it

Very much this, tyres, particularly when it comes to wet grip, are far from all equal.

I went from the tyres that came with my bike (I forget the brand, but very average) to a set of Michelin PR4s and the difference in wet grip and feel was huge. Ok, you still can’t take liberties on wet roads, but they feel far more planted and far more consistent.

Not the cheapest tyres, but worth the investment. Michelin PR5s are the latest of that line of tyres I believe - haven’t tried them, but I’ve heard good things.