Possible Convert To 911 land
Discussion
Hi Chaps, after a number of years of owning (and loving TVR's), I have been looking for a Griffith but just can't seem to find one that looks good for the money so I've started seriously looking at 997.1 C2S's. My budget as going to be around the 25K mark so will be a 05\06 with 80K+ miles (would prefer to buy private, as my past experience with warrantees is not good). I've been reading through the forum and apart from the IMS, bore scoring etc what are the main issues to look out for (I'm assuming a good service history), is high mileages a problem? and what are the nice things to have i.e. crono, hardback seats? My OH wants to go auto (tiptronic) but I'm looking manual. After 6 TVR's and a L322 Range Rover, I'm fairly good with the spanners, what are they like to work on?
Lots of questions but any advice would be appreciated
thanks
Alan
Lots of questions but any advice would be appreciated
thanks
Alan
I think I'd want to buy one of these from a specialist like 911 Virgin, Portiacraft, RSJ and I'd insist on 12 month bumper to bumper warranty. Useful in first year of ownership as engines are a weaker point but having said that many may have been sorted by now. Was best 997 I had a go in years ago but still went turbo as it was a poster bucket list car for me.
L1OFF said:
I'm fairly good with the spanners, what are they like to work on?
The standard road cars win a lot of the features from the GT cars which, in turn, get a lot of their features form the Cup and GT race cars. So dropping engines and gearboxes is designed to be 'a thing' and quite a bit of access for service jobs can also be enabled by removing the rear bumper and heat shields.The big snags with any non Mezger engined 996 or 997 can be the IMS or bore scoring issues. You might DIY the former but not the latter. Hartech have solutions which remedy the issue and work reliably.
Have a lurk on the 911uk forum if you haven;t already for a few more ideas and opinions.
Stock 911 Carrera are great sportscars, likely to be less of an ‘experience’ than a Griff though?
An 05/06 at 80k might be in the eye-of-the-storm for maintenance;
Suspension refresh
Clutch replace
Gearbox rebuild
LSD rebuild
Exhaust silencers
Radiator replace
Plenty of potential spanner work if not already taken care!
An 05/06 at 80k might be in the eye-of-the-storm for maintenance;
Suspension refresh
Clutch replace
Gearbox rebuild
LSD rebuild
Exhaust silencers
Radiator replace
Plenty of potential spanner work if not already taken care!
Orangecurry said:
How many 'seats' do you need?
My knowledge is poor on the Cayman/Boxster, but wouldn't that be a better route to a more reliable engine and autobox? Because a newer one is in your budget?
Over to the experts
OP, this is certainly something to consider.My knowledge is poor on the Cayman/Boxster, but wouldn't that be a better route to a more reliable engine and autobox? Because a newer one is in your budget?
Over to the experts
You could get a Gen 2 987 Cayman S for your budget.
It would have the reliable 3.4 engine, and a very nice PDK gearbox that would keep your wife happy.
Obviously it's not quite as fast as a 911 in a straight line, but it is still a fantastic car and handles brilliantly.
Is Gen2 2010 onwards?
Or you might be able to stretch to an early 981? Are they better?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007271...
Or you might be able to stretch to an early 981? Are they better?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007271...
Orangecurry said:
Is Gen2 2010 onwards?
Or you might be able to stretch to an early 981? Are they better?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007271...
From memory Gen 2 was some point in 2008.Or you might be able to stretch to an early 981? Are they better?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007271...
I have owned a 2006 C2S for four years and if my experience is typical I'd do two things 1) as suggested buy from a reputable specialist who can show you they've done a thorough inspection and with an ironclad warranty if possible (probably not or at least it won't be cheap) 2) keep £2-3k available for any work that crops up.
Mine came with one of those Quentin Wilson warranties. Absolutely useless waste of money. Covered nothing that actually broke. Mine had done 33,000 miles when I got it. Big stuff that needed doing in first 2 years:
Clutch and flywheel
Coolant pipes
Inner door seals (nasty one, that leak with age and let water in to the car)
Ignition packs
All that was about £4k I think and it had had the official Porsche 110 point used car pre-sale inspection done on it! But once done it's only had the usual minor stuff since (alternator, cooling fans sticking, new tyres, brake discs/pads etc)
Anther one to look out for is rotten exhaust manifolds that need changing but when they are the studs sheer off in the heads. In hindsight I think my mistake was buying a low mileage car that hadn't been used enough. With an 80k car I'd check when the clutch was last replaced, but if it has a good history it shouldn't worry you too much with other stuff.
Incidentally the IMS thing is less of an issue than the interweb would have you believe. Mine is an '06 car and has the (less troublesome) larger bearing fitted. My indy specialist though told me that all 997s suffer with bore scoring it's just that some will last a very long time before it gets them and others not.
I love my 911. You won't regret buying one and don't let all the doomsday talk put you off. For me the colour and Sports seats were a must. I didn't want a Silver one and the majority seem to be Silver (mine is Seal Grey). Oh, and if you buy an '07 car the road tax is cheaper despite it being the exact same car.
Mine came with one of those Quentin Wilson warranties. Absolutely useless waste of money. Covered nothing that actually broke. Mine had done 33,000 miles when I got it. Big stuff that needed doing in first 2 years:
Clutch and flywheel
Coolant pipes
Inner door seals (nasty one, that leak with age and let water in to the car)
Ignition packs
All that was about £4k I think and it had had the official Porsche 110 point used car pre-sale inspection done on it! But once done it's only had the usual minor stuff since (alternator, cooling fans sticking, new tyres, brake discs/pads etc)
Anther one to look out for is rotten exhaust manifolds that need changing but when they are the studs sheer off in the heads. In hindsight I think my mistake was buying a low mileage car that hadn't been used enough. With an 80k car I'd check when the clutch was last replaced, but if it has a good history it shouldn't worry you too much with other stuff.
Incidentally the IMS thing is less of an issue than the interweb would have you believe. Mine is an '06 car and has the (less troublesome) larger bearing fitted. My indy specialist though told me that all 997s suffer with bore scoring it's just that some will last a very long time before it gets them and others not.
I love my 911. You won't regret buying one and don't let all the doomsday talk put you off. For me the colour and Sports seats were a must. I didn't want a Silver one and the majority seem to be Silver (mine is Seal Grey). Oh, and if you buy an '07 car the road tax is cheaper despite it being the exact same car.
OK, but let me put one more thing past you. Reading between the lines, after a TVR, if it 'must be a 911' then I think a cooking 997 isn't going to be enough for you.
I would up the budget to 30k and find a decent 996 turbo - not only is it 'the' 911, it has none of the engine issues. What's more, it will probably start going up in 'value' (selling it to the wife).
I would up the budget to 30k and find a decent 996 turbo - not only is it 'the' 911, it has none of the engine issues. What's more, it will probably start going up in 'value' (selling it to the wife).
g7jhp said:
987.2 Boxster 2 would be my choice with £25k to spend.
I think a manual would be fine they'll very light compared to older Porsche.
I agree with this choice. I have had TVRs for 10 years and a Boxster 987.1 for three of those and a 996 for the last year.I think a manual would be fine they'll very light compared to older Porsche.
Probably going to change the 996 for a 987.2 Boxster at some point. Ideally with a switchable exhaust.
Be aware, these German things can make a Cerb or Tuscan seem like a cheap car to run if you are unlucky
911”s are brilliant. They will get under your skin, they have a depth of abilities few other cars have, and they take time to learn how to drive them.
However.....
For £25k, in a 911....you’re in difficult territory. 997.1 with medium to high miles and the well known engine weaknesses. Unless you get one with a Hartech rebuild, you could be in for a £10k bill, for the car to broadly be worth the same value afterwards.
If you really want a 911 and I totally get that (been there, many times), I’d say up your budget to £35k, get a £10k loan from Sainsburys or Tesco at 2% over 5 years and for approx £200 a month you’ll get a lovely 997.2...
However (again)..these cars are 12 years + old now and components underneath are rusting and need replacing...at some cost. Easy £3k bill for exhaust brackets, heatshields, suspension arms.... it easily mounts up, so get an inspection is the best advice you could get.
Oddly....after coming from Lotus and TVR’s a few years ago..and having had 6 x 911’s plus many other Porsche’s.... I’m looking at TVR’s again
Shoot me now!
However.....
For £25k, in a 911....you’re in difficult territory. 997.1 with medium to high miles and the well known engine weaknesses. Unless you get one with a Hartech rebuild, you could be in for a £10k bill, for the car to broadly be worth the same value afterwards.
If you really want a 911 and I totally get that (been there, many times), I’d say up your budget to £35k, get a £10k loan from Sainsburys or Tesco at 2% over 5 years and for approx £200 a month you’ll get a lovely 997.2...
However (again)..these cars are 12 years + old now and components underneath are rusting and need replacing...at some cost. Easy £3k bill for exhaust brackets, heatshields, suspension arms.... it easily mounts up, so get an inspection is the best advice you could get.
Oddly....after coming from Lotus and TVR’s a few years ago..and having had 6 x 911’s plus many other Porsche’s.... I’m looking at TVR’s again
Shoot me now!
Orangecurry said:
OK, but let me put one more thing past you. Reading between the lines, after a TVR, if it 'must be a 911' then I think a cooking 997 isn't going to be enough for you.
I would up the budget to 30k and find a decent 996 turbo - not only is it 'the' 911, it has none of the engine issues. What's more, it will probably start going up in 'value' (selling it to the wife).
I think 911's are special enough, because they do it all so well. I actually think engine noise and character is definitely better in non-turbo cars too. Having owned a 996 turbo, they are ace - bonkers fast - but can be eyewateringly expensive to own and maintain (properly).I would up the budget to 30k and find a decent 996 turbo - not only is it 'the' 911, it has none of the engine issues. What's more, it will probably start going up in 'value' (selling it to the wife).
MrVert said:
911”s are brilliant. They will get under your skin, they have a depth of abilities few other cars have, and they take time to learn how to drive them.
However.....
For £25k, in a 911....you’re in difficult territory. 997.1 with medium to high miles and the well known engine weaknesses. Unless you get one with a Hartech rebuild, you could be in for a £10k bill, for the car to broadly be worth the same value afterwards.
If you really want a 911 and I totally get that (been there, many times), I’d say up your budget to £35k, get a £10k loan from Sainsburys or Tesco at 2% over 5 years and for approx £200 a month you’ll get a lovely 997.2...
However (again)..these cars are 12 years + old now and components underneath are rusting and need replacing...at some cost. Easy £3k bill for exhaust brackets, heatshields, suspension arms.... it easily mounts up, so get an inspection is the best advice you could get.
Oddly....after coming from Lotus and TVR’s a few years ago..and having had 6 x 911’s plus many other Porsche’s.... I’m looking at TVR’s again
Shoot me now!
I'm still in the TVRCc and reading this month's story about a guys obsession and longstanding (on off) owenership of his 4 litre Griffith, I am almost at the same cracking point. The GT3 would have to stay, a TVR would be an "extra".However.....
For £25k, in a 911....you’re in difficult territory. 997.1 with medium to high miles and the well known engine weaknesses. Unless you get one with a Hartech rebuild, you could be in for a £10k bill, for the car to broadly be worth the same value afterwards.
If you really want a 911 and I totally get that (been there, many times), I’d say up your budget to £35k, get a £10k loan from Sainsburys or Tesco at 2% over 5 years and for approx £200 a month you’ll get a lovely 997.2...
However (again)..these cars are 12 years + old now and components underneath are rusting and need replacing...at some cost. Easy £3k bill for exhaust brackets, heatshields, suspension arms.... it easily mounts up, so get an inspection is the best advice you could get.
Oddly....after coming from Lotus and TVR’s a few years ago..and having had 6 x 911’s plus many other Porsche’s.... I’m looking at TVR’s again
Shoot me now!
I never did own a 400SE...
A good mate of mine has a 2005 997.1 Carrera 2 and he had the bore score problems. About £15K later spent with Hartech all is well with the engine as it will be bullet proof. He did have a few other things replaced when Hartech dropped the engine out as it was prudent to do that at the same time rather than having to take the engine out again at a later date to replace those other parts. Like others have said look very carefully for the right car.
I was looking at a 997.1 Carrera 2S about 18 months ago now at £32K, the car had covered 25,000 miles and was immaculate but the owner had spent £12K with Hartech on an engine rebuild. I didn't buy the car as I was thinking about others at the time but I was staggered that a 25,000 mile engine that had been fastidiously maintained needed a rebuild due to bore score. The chap did sell the car a month or so later and I bought something else about six months after that time.
I was looking at a 997.1 Carrera 2S about 18 months ago now at £32K, the car had covered 25,000 miles and was immaculate but the owner had spent £12K with Hartech on an engine rebuild. I didn't buy the car as I was thinking about others at the time but I was staggered that a 25,000 mile engine that had been fastidiously maintained needed a rebuild due to bore score. The chap did sell the car a month or so later and I bought something else about six months after that time.
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