Fuel stabiliser for winter storage?
Discussion
Yup, throw it in and run for a few minutes so it works into the fuel system and you’re good to go.
I just STA-BIL recently. My plans changed so I ended up burning about half a tank with it in. It definitely cleaned what I presume are the injectors, whereby the engine ran notably smoother up the lower rev-Range.
I just STA-BIL recently. My plans changed so I ended up burning about half a tank with it in. It definitely cleaned what I presume are the injectors, whereby the engine ran notably smoother up the lower rev-Range.
Because an engine is full of bits of metal that move against each other. The highest wear phase is when the engine is 'cold'. This is because the bits of metal need space to expand to operating temp. So when you start a 'cold' engine, there are a few very hot bits, and many cold bits.
From a 'wear' point of view, you want the engine to be in this phase for a short as time as possible - hence the advice to move off straight away, and not let the engine idle.
You want the engine to get to operating temperature as quickly as possible. By driving and keeping the revs down, you make the engine 'do work', as this evens the temperature gradients quicker, and moving means the air-flow over the engine helps to achieve the same result.
If you don't care about engine wear, then it doesn't matter. But as the OP asked about keeping his car in the best state for storage, I presume he likes it and wants to keep it.
From a 'wear' point of view, you want the engine to be in this phase for a short as time as possible - hence the advice to move off straight away, and not let the engine idle.
You want the engine to get to operating temperature as quickly as possible. By driving and keeping the revs down, you make the engine 'do work', as this evens the temperature gradients quicker, and moving means the air-flow over the engine helps to achieve the same result.
If you don't care about engine wear, then it doesn't matter. But as the OP asked about keeping his car in the best state for storage, I presume he likes it and wants to keep it.
Orangecurry said:
Because an engine is full of bits of metal that move against each other. The highest wear phase is when the engine is 'cold'. This is because the bits of metal need space to expand to operating temp. So when you start a 'cold' engine, there are a few very hot bits, and many cold bits.
From a 'wear' point of view, you want the engine to be in this phase for a short as time as possible - hence the advice to move off straight away, and not let the engine idle.
You want the engine to get to operating temperature as quickly as possible. By driving and keeping the revs down, you make the engine 'do work', as this evens the temperature gradients quicker, and moving means the air-flow over the engine helps to achieve the same result.
If you don't care about engine wear, then it doesn't matter. But as the OP asked about keeping his car in the best state for storage, I presume he likes it and wants to keep it.
Every day is a school day From a 'wear' point of view, you want the engine to be in this phase for a short as time as possible - hence the advice to move off straight away, and not let the engine idle.
You want the engine to get to operating temperature as quickly as possible. By driving and keeping the revs down, you make the engine 'do work', as this evens the temperature gradients quicker, and moving means the air-flow over the engine helps to achieve the same result.
If you don't care about engine wear, then it doesn't matter. But as the OP asked about keeping his car in the best state for storage, I presume he likes it and wants to keep it.
Orangecurry said:
Because an engine is full of bits of metal that move against each other. The highest wear phase is when the engine is 'cold'. This is because the bits of metal need space to expand to operating temp. So when you start a 'cold' engine, there are a few very hot bits, and many cold bits.
From a 'wear' point of view, you want the engine to be in this phase for a short as time as possible - hence the advice to move off straight away, and not let the engine idle.
You want the engine to get to operating temperature as quickly as possible. By driving and keeping the revs down, you make the engine 'do work', as this evens the temperature gradients quicker, and moving means the air-flow over the engine helps to achieve the same result.
If you don't care about engine wear, then it doesn't matter. But as the OP asked about keeping his car in the best state for storage, I presume he likes it and wants to keep it.
The engine wear would be so minimal I doubt you would even pick it up on a used oil analysis. From a 'wear' point of view, you want the engine to be in this phase for a short as time as possible - hence the advice to move off straight away, and not let the engine idle.
You want the engine to get to operating temperature as quickly as possible. By driving and keeping the revs down, you make the engine 'do work', as this evens the temperature gradients quicker, and moving means the air-flow over the engine helps to achieve the same result.
If you don't care about engine wear, then it doesn't matter. But as the OP asked about keeping his car in the best state for storage, I presume he likes it and wants to keep it.
Still I dont believe the practice of starting and idling every week would achieve very much
Nuttcase said:
The engine wear would be so minimal I doubt you would even pick it up on a used oil analysis.
But it isn't minimal. That's what engineers have always told us. It used to be written in every driver's handbook.... do not idle but drive off immediately.And if you don't get the whole engine up to proper operating temperature. then the engine/system has a higher percentage of exhaust gases and moisture that will sit in there and be absorbed back into the oil and sit in the exhaust system.... there are no positives to idling an engine from cold.
DYOR.
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 12th October 10:14
Orangecurry said:
Really not a good idea, according to the engineers.
Great way to fill your exhaust with condensation and help it to rot from the inside out though !! Also a really good way to ensure the inside of the engine becomes laden with condensation and the oil contaminated with excess fuel/condensation. As OC says, either don't use it at all, or drive it properly for at least 30 minutes to ensure it gets up to optimum temperature.
Slippydiff said:
Great way to fill your exhaust with condensation and help it to rot from the inside out though !! Also a really good way to ensure the inside of the engine becomes laden with condensation and the oil contaminated with excess fuel/condensation.
As OC says, either don't use it at all, or drive it properly for at least 30 minutes to ensure it gets up to optimum temperature.
this :-)As OC says, either don't use it at all, or drive it properly for at least 30 minutes to ensure it gets up to optimum temperature.
MY granddad was 90 odd and failed his test at 90 as he let it lapse, but still drove to the shops 1/4 mile any way, his brand new old car rotted away from the inside in quite a short time and failed it 1st MOT at 3 years.
Just don't start the car , it's only 5 months it won't hurt it, we see cars sat in storage 15 years those are the s
tters with dried up seals and white gunk in the oil.smudger911 said:
Fnumber1user said:
Fill it with a premium fuel and forget the stabiliser - its not needed.
^^ this has always worked well for me - 80's 911's & 991.2 stored for multiple months.Orangecurry said:
But it isn't minimal. That's what engineers have always told us. It used to be written in every driver's handbook.... do not idle but drive off immediately.
And if you don't get the whole engine up to proper operating temperature. then the engine/system has a higher percentage of exhaust gases and moisture that will sit in there and be absorbed back into the oil and sit in the exhaust system.... there are no positives to idling an engine from cold.
DYOR.
You have partially missed my point. I'm not advocating that idling a car every week is good practice for the other (non-wear) related problems you and others have stated - drawing in moisture is the biggest one in my experience - yes I did that in my first car back in 1989 and learned from it. I also stated that it wasn't clear to me what idling for 20 minutes a week would possibly achieve. So I think we are aligned in the overall recommendation.And if you don't get the whole engine up to proper operating temperature. then the engine/system has a higher percentage of exhaust gases and moisture that will sit in there and be absorbed back into the oil and sit in the exhaust system.... there are no positives to idling an engine from cold.
DYOR.
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 12th October 10:14
I have DMOR on engine wear - not only that, I commissioned used oil analysis every few oil changes on a car that I ran for almost 150,000 miles when I lived in the USA. I lived in the city and spent a lot of time idling in the rush hour traffic including when cold / during warm up. There was no indication of abnormal wear from the UOA and the camshafts were pristine. I don't doubt that there is wear during warm up but I've not seen any studies in the last 15 years that conclude that idling once a week for 20 minutes results in measurable wear. If you can cite any studies, UOA or experience to the contrary then I'm all eyes. I believe the instructions to drive off immediately and not idle are based more on resource conservation rather than wear avoidance.
If you examine some of the more severe wear characteristics to inflict some Porsche engines over the last two decades, such as IMS bearing failures and bore scoring and cracking, do you think they were caused by idling?
Going back to the original OP question about fuel additives. I think you will find a few statements in the owners manual that Porsche do not recommend additives to the oil and fuel. I know very little about these fuel additives but if I had a car within manufacturer warranty or extended warranty then this is not a recommendation that I would break regardless of the additive manufacturer claims.
Nuttcase said:
Orangecurry said:
But it isn't minimal. That's what engineers have always told us. It used to be written in every driver's handbook.... do not idle but drive off immediately.
And if you don't get the whole engine up to proper operating temperature. then the engine/system has a higher percentage of exhaust gases and moisture that will sit in there and be absorbed back into the oil and sit in the exhaust system.... there are no positives to idling an engine from cold.
DYOR.
You have partially missed my point. I'm not advocating that idling a car every week is good practice for the other (non-wear) related problems you and others have stated - drawing in moisture is the biggest one in my experience - yes I did that in my first car back in 1989 and learned from it. I also stated that it wasn't clear to me what idling for 20 minutes a week would possibly achieve. So I think we are aligned in the overall recommendation.And if you don't get the whole engine up to proper operating temperature. then the engine/system has a higher percentage of exhaust gases and moisture that will sit in there and be absorbed back into the oil and sit in the exhaust system.... there are no positives to idling an engine from cold.
DYOR.
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 12th October 10:14
I have DMOR on engine wear - not only that, I commissioned used oil analysis every few oil changes on a car that I ran for almost 150,000 miles when I lived in the USA. I lived in the city and spent a lot of time idling in the rush hour traffic including when cold / during warm up. There was no indication of abnormal wear from the UOA and the camshafts were pristine. I don't doubt that there is wear during warm up but I've not seen any studies in the last 15 years that conclude that idling once a week for 20 minutes results in measurable wear. If you can cite any studies, UOA or experience to the contrary then I'm all eyes. I believe the instructions to drive off immediately and not idle are based more on resource conservation rather than wear avoidance.
(edited - I'm overcomplicating things)
Is there more wear starting an engine from cold and letting it run for 10 minutes than at any other time, yes or no.
If yes, why would you do that to your engine?
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 12th October 22:06
Orangecurry said:
I learned my lesson a looooong time ago that pointing out things to people from americaland doesn't usually go anywhere. But I'm a glutton for punishment.
(edited - I'm overcomplicating things)
Is there more wear starting an engine from cold and letting it run for 10 minutes than at any other time, yes or no.
If yes, why would you do that to your engine?
The fact that you incorrectly assume I'm from Americaland simply because I lived there in the past speaks volumes about your interpretation capabilities.(edited - I'm overcomplicating things)
Is there more wear starting an engine from cold and letting it run for 10 minutes than at any other time, yes or no.
If yes, why would you do that to your engine?
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 12th October 22:06
Nuttcase said:
The fact that you incorrectly assume I'm from Americaland simply because I lived there in the past speaks volumes about your interpretation capabilities.
but I'm not interpreting anything. I'm passing on engineering advice, which you with your oil analyses are free to ignore.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff