Anyone here with experience of SS3 and R-Tronic gearboxes?
Discussion
Is anyone in a position to provide an informed view on the comparative merits and demerits (based on driving experience) of the SS3 gearbox found in the V12VS and Audi's R-tronic effort, found in the early R8 V8s and V10s? They are both, as I understand it, robotised single clutch automated manuals, and are both not as quick nor smooth as a PDK/DSG/S-tronic etc dual clutch box.
In particular - any idiosyncrasies that one has that the other doesn't? Is one markedly better or worse to drive than other? And if anyone (even less likely!) has any experience of an R-tronic box that has had some form of TCU firmware upgrade tune, chuck that in too.
TIA.
In particular - any idiosyncrasies that one has that the other doesn't? Is one markedly better or worse to drive than other? And if anyone (even less likely!) has any experience of an R-tronic box that has had some form of TCU firmware upgrade tune, chuck that in too.
TIA.
To open this debate.
I think all V12 manuals (including Sportshift automated manuals) ie. including DB9 and Vantage, have twin friction plate clutches.
Sorry, cannot answer your question. I drive a manual and have only experienced a Sportshift 3 once, not in road conditions, but on a high speed circuit.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 13th October 14:28
Jon39 said:
To open this debate.
I think all V12 manuals (including Sportshift automated manuals) ie. including DB9 and Vantage, have twin friction plate clutches.
(Again, my understanding
in a dual clutch set up you have two clutches, one of which is engaged for (say) even gears and one of which is waiting in the wings to engage the next gear you select (a la Indiana Jones swiping the artefact in Raiders, but without the adverse consequences). Whereas in a twin plate single clutch you have a single clutch for all gears, but it has multiple plates stacked to increase friction. Be that as it may, SS3 is not based on teh same tech as a PDK/DSG/S-tronic box, whereas it seems to be based on the same tech as an R-tronic (or even an SMG) box.
BlackTails said:
Yes, but my understanding is that they are twin plate single clutches, as opposed to dual clutch set ups.
(Again, my understanding in a dual clutch set up you have two clutches, one of which is engaged for (say) even gears and one of which is waiting in the wings to engage the next gear you select (a la Indiana Jones swiping the artefact in Raiders, but without the adverse consequences). Whereas in a twin plate single clutch you have a single clutch for all gears, but it has multiple plates stacked to increase friction.
Be that as it may, SS3 is not based on teh same tech as a PDK/DSG/S-tronic box, whereas it seems to be based on the same tech as an R-tronic (or even an SMG) box.
(Again, my understanding
in a dual clutch set up you have two clutches, one of which is engaged for (say) even gears and one of which is waiting in the wings to engage the next gear you select (a la Indiana Jones swiping the artefact in Raiders, but without the adverse consequences). Whereas in a twin plate single clutch you have a single clutch for all gears, but it has multiple plates stacked to increase friction. Be that as it may, SS3 is not based on teh same tech as a PDK/DSG/S-tronic box, whereas it seems to be based on the same tech as an R-tronic (or even an SMG) box.
I believe you are exactly correct.
The PDK/DSG/S-tronic systems are far more sophisticated. In the early days of those boxes, VW in particular had a reputation for troubles. There was even some talk about wet being more reliable than dry (or the other way round), what that means I don't know.
Have those early gremlins been sorted, and are all these two clutch gearboxes now reliable?
With Aston Martin, the manual and Sportshift gearboxes I understand, are basically identical Graziano transaxle gearbox units. The Sportshift being a computer controlled gear change arangement. SS3 being the third and last of gradually improved versions, SS1 is 6 speed, SS2 and SS3 are 7 speed.
Expect there will be V12S owners here, who also have another car with PDK (etc). Hopefully they can help you regarding the driving differences. One related aspect though, the V12 engine has huge torque, so gearchanging is perhaps of less importance.
Black tails
I've got SSIII in my V12VS and a dual clutch 7 speed box in my RS5 (different to the R8 one i suspect)
My preference is the SSIII - for a bunch of reasons, mainly to do with the ECU mapping of the engine I think
The SSIII is a manual and it drives like one once you get familiar with it (I never drive it in"D")
The RS5 is an auto - great around town just slushes along like any out, sometimes a bit clunky. But in Sport / dynamic mode it holds the gears too long so the only option for town, B road & highway if you dont want auto is to drive it in manual on the paddles - works great but the ECU tricks up the revs/gear changes to sound like a boy racer which isnt always what I want.
So for me the SSIII is better
also the gear selector sensor in the RS5 failed in the box at 56,000km - $10k bill. The clutch in the Vantage is way cheaper
Graeme
I've got SSIII in my V12VS and a dual clutch 7 speed box in my RS5 (different to the R8 one i suspect)
My preference is the SSIII - for a bunch of reasons, mainly to do with the ECU mapping of the engine I think
The SSIII is a manual and it drives like one once you get familiar with it (I never drive it in"D")
The RS5 is an auto - great around town just slushes along like any out, sometimes a bit clunky. But in Sport / dynamic mode it holds the gears too long so the only option for town, B road & highway if you dont want auto is to drive it in manual on the paddles - works great but the ECU tricks up the revs/gear changes to sound like a boy racer which isnt always what I want.
So for me the SSIII is better
also the gear selector sensor in the RS5 failed in the box at 56,000km - $10k bill. The clutch in the Vantage is way cheaper
Graeme
BlackTails said:
To be clear: I am interested in hearing about the R-Tronic from an SS3 user's perspective. I have a V12VS, and am thinking (somewhat recklessly) of pairing it with a R8 for everyday duties, for reasons which are lengthy, contrived, and a bit boring!
I maybe able to help. If you are used to how SS3 drives, then I think you should like R-Tronic. I had both a R8 V10 R-Tronic and briefly a 2015 V12VS SS3. My recollection is not much difference between the two systems. But owners of R-tronic have reported clutch issues on 2008, 2009 R8s which are V8s for those years. Driving on the street wise, same jerking motion.
I did upgrade R8 to a V10 S-tronic and acquired a V12VS dogleg eventually. Both still in the stable.
V12Vin said:
BlackTails said:
To be clear: I am interested in hearing about the R-Tronic from an SS3 user's perspective. I have a V12VS, and am thinking (somewhat recklessly) of pairing it with a R8 for everyday duties, for reasons which are lengthy, contrived, and a bit boring!
I maybe able to help. If you are used to how SS3 drives, then I think you should like R-Tronic. I had both a R8 V10 R-Tronic and briefly a 2015 V12VS SS3. My recollection is not much difference between the two systems. But owners of R-tronic have reported clutch issues on 2008, 2009 R8s which are V8s for those years. Driving on the street wise, same jerking motion.
I did upgrade R8 to a V10 S-tronic and acquired a V12VS dogleg eventually. Both still in the stable.
I would strongly recommend a test drive, I found the R-Tronic gearbox to be awful, yet I bonded with the SSII in my V8S. As you know both need time to get used to but I never did with the R8 V10... awesome engine though. If you want to add the R8 I would go S-tronic it was available in the last of the 1st gen cars... hope this helps.
Grant3 said:
I would strongly recommend a test drive, I found the R-Tronic gearbox to be awful, yet I bonded with the SSII in my V8S. As you know both need time to get used to but I never did with the R8 V10... awesome engine though. If you want to add the R8 I would go S-tronic it was available in the last of the 1st gen cars... hope this helps.
Ah! - interesting and a bit of a fly in the ointment!S-tronic is a bit out of budget, even with a generous bit of budget creep. I am also a bit reluctant to go for an s-tronic in case it is just a bit too unengaging (read: boring and too easy).
I would love to hear a bit more about what you didn't like about the r-tronic box though. I drive my SS3 on the paddles all the time, and never let it sit there in D doing the work. I'd be planning to drive an R8 in the same way, so I would be interested to hear about your experience with the r-tronic when driven on the paddles.
Hi Black Tails,
The paddles on the R8 are very short and unpleasant to use nowhere near as nice as Aston’s and where as I grew to thoroughly enjoyed the SSII the R8 box always seemed jerky and awkward, it had its moments when all worked well but they varied so it was hard to find a groove. The interior on the early cars is also rather low rent nowhere near as special as an Aston’s. BUT the v10 is epic, I had a cab’ and it was awesome for sound, performance and traction. I would not move from V12 A.M. to early R8, but if you have both I get that... particularly if ones a cab!
As ever, test drive one and find out what YOU think... best of luck .....looking is half the fun
The paddles on the R8 are very short and unpleasant to use nowhere near as nice as Aston’s and where as I grew to thoroughly enjoyed the SSII the R8 box always seemed jerky and awkward, it had its moments when all worked well but they varied so it was hard to find a groove. The interior on the early cars is also rather low rent nowhere near as special as an Aston’s. BUT the v10 is epic, I had a cab’ and it was awesome for sound, performance and traction. I would not move from V12 A.M. to early R8, but if you have both I get that... particularly if ones a cab!
As ever, test drive one and find out what YOU think... best of luck .....looking is half the fun
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