Job issues... Working but still on furlough!
Discussion
So a few issues needing some advice here...
Girlfriend works for a big national company within the leisure industry. She got furloughed in March and brought back to work in July, and yet somehow without realising she has been paid furlough pay for August & September. It actually says it on her payslip and is slightly down on her regularly basic pay... how she didn’t notice sooner I don’t know.
Next up... her contract changed in April 2017 to 37.5hr rather than 40hr with no change in pay. It’s only just dawned on her (3.5yrs later!) that she still works 40+hrs a week, with no official break or even time really to take a proper one. Her job role changed a lot and she gained a lot more responsibilities for no additional pay/lots more stress/more hours (essentially covering someone who went on maternity and a few leavers). To add to this she has been booking holiday as 8hrs per day taken rather than the 7.5 as her contract states.
Final one... again don’t ask me how she didn’t realise this sooner... based on the 40hrs she actually works rather than the 37.5h contracted, she isn’t even paid the minimum wage. To top it off her colleague doing the exact same job and been there half the time is paid about £2500 a year more. She’s asked for a payrise and essentially been told to jog on. As you can imagine... she is now looking for another job.
I’ve advised her she needs to speak to a solicitor specialising in employment law, and she did phone one today but it seemed like they weren’t that interested. Is there anything to go on here or would it just be better to jump ship and move on?
Girlfriend works for a big national company within the leisure industry. She got furloughed in March and brought back to work in July, and yet somehow without realising she has been paid furlough pay for August & September. It actually says it on her payslip and is slightly down on her regularly basic pay... how she didn’t notice sooner I don’t know.
Next up... her contract changed in April 2017 to 37.5hr rather than 40hr with no change in pay. It’s only just dawned on her (3.5yrs later!) that she still works 40+hrs a week, with no official break or even time really to take a proper one. Her job role changed a lot and she gained a lot more responsibilities for no additional pay/lots more stress/more hours (essentially covering someone who went on maternity and a few leavers). To add to this she has been booking holiday as 8hrs per day taken rather than the 7.5 as her contract states.
Final one... again don’t ask me how she didn’t realise this sooner... based on the 40hrs she actually works rather than the 37.5h contracted, she isn’t even paid the minimum wage. To top it off her colleague doing the exact same job and been there half the time is paid about £2500 a year more. She’s asked for a payrise and essentially been told to jog on. As you can imagine... she is now looking for another job.
I’ve advised her she needs to speak to a solicitor specialising in employment law, and she did phone one today but it seemed like they weren’t that interested. Is there anything to go on here or would it just be better to jump ship and move on?
loskie said:
Citizens Advice or a union if she is in one or join one
She has to take some if not all of the responsibility though for being so dim
I know, believe me. I think it’s passed her by as she just didn’t realise and thought it was the norm. I come from an hourly paid, factory background with unions and such... whereas she is salaried. She also used to love her job and worked with some great people so I imagine she didn’t really care too much about the technicals and just got on with it and enjoyed it, doing what was needed almost like a family run business. A few changes have happened in the last 12 months and she’s really fallen out of love with the place, and then all of this came to light when I quizzed her a bit.She has to take some if not all of the responsibility though for being so dim
320d is all you need said:
How long has she been working?
She needs to speak to an Employment Lawyer specifically relating.
She could be in for a rather big windfall (money over the time at 0.5 hours per day) plus any holiday owed etc.
Needs very careful handling.
Been there for about 5 years, been back at work since mid-July. I thought the same but it could be a grey area... I’m sure they’ll try to say she has a half hour break every day but she definitely doesn’t. She needs to speak to an Employment Lawyer specifically relating.
She could be in for a rather big windfall (money over the time at 0.5 hours per day) plus any holiday owed etc.
Needs very careful handling.
I wouldlook into the Furlough thing, as the company may have been trying to pull a bit of a scam there.
But with the hours, I would have thought that the company could argue that she has chosen to work the extra hours, and if a half hour break is available, and she doesnt take it, then again, possible argue that its her responsibility to make sure she takes it.
But with the hours, I would have thought that the company could argue that she has chosen to work the extra hours, and if a half hour break is available, and she doesnt take it, then again, possible argue that its her responsibility to make sure she takes it.
Mr E said:
Turkish91 said:
The Spruce Goose said:
is the colleague a man?
YeahProper advice required.
Turkish91 said:
So a few issues needing some advice here...
Girlfriend works for a big national company within the leisure industry. She got furloughed in March and brought back to work in July, and yet somehow without realising she has been paid furlough pay for August & September. It actually says it on her payslip and is slightly down on her regularly basic pay... how she didn’t notice sooner I don’t know.
Next up... her contract changed in April 2017 to 37.5hr rather than 40hr with no change in pay. It’s only just dawned on her (3.5yrs later!) that she still works 40+hrs a week, with no official break or even time really to take a proper one. Her job role changed a lot and she gained a lot more responsibilities for no additional pay/lots more stress/more hours (essentially covering someone who went on maternity and a few leavers). To add to this she has been booking holiday as 8hrs per day taken rather than the 7.5 as her contract states.
Final one... again don’t ask me how she didn’t realise this sooner... based on the 40hrs she actually works rather than the 37.5h contracted, she isn’t even paid the minimum wage. To top it off her colleague doing the exact same job and been there half the time is paid about £2500 a year more. She’s asked for a payrise and essentially been told to jog on. As you can imagine... she is now looking for another job.
I’ve advised her she needs to speak to a solicitor specialising in employment law, and she did phone one today but it seemed like they weren’t that interested. Is there anything to go on here or would it just be better to jump ship and move on?
Are you absolutely sure she hasn't gone from a 40 hour week including an unpaid half hour break to a 37.5 hour week excluding a half hour break? i.e no difference in pay?Girlfriend works for a big national company within the leisure industry. She got furloughed in March and brought back to work in July, and yet somehow without realising she has been paid furlough pay for August & September. It actually says it on her payslip and is slightly down on her regularly basic pay... how she didn’t notice sooner I don’t know.
Next up... her contract changed in April 2017 to 37.5hr rather than 40hr with no change in pay. It’s only just dawned on her (3.5yrs later!) that she still works 40+hrs a week, with no official break or even time really to take a proper one. Her job role changed a lot and she gained a lot more responsibilities for no additional pay/lots more stress/more hours (essentially covering someone who went on maternity and a few leavers). To add to this she has been booking holiday as 8hrs per day taken rather than the 7.5 as her contract states.
Final one... again don’t ask me how she didn’t realise this sooner... based on the 40hrs she actually works rather than the 37.5h contracted, she isn’t even paid the minimum wage. To top it off her colleague doing the exact same job and been there half the time is paid about £2500 a year more. She’s asked for a payrise and essentially been told to jog on. As you can imagine... she is now looking for another job.
I’ve advised her she needs to speak to a solicitor specialising in employment law, and she did phone one today but it seemed like they weren’t that interested. Is there anything to go on here or would it just be better to jump ship and move on?
98elise said:
Mr E said:
Turkish91 said:
The Spruce Goose said:
is the colleague a man?
YeahProper advice required.
Turkish91 said:
Yeah
If it was me I would raise a grievance in relation to the equality act 2010. I would focus on this to get their attention as this is the most clear breach and very winnable and easy to show."By law, men and women must get equal pay for doing 'equal work' (work that equal pay law classes as the same, similar, equivalent or of equal value). This means someone must not get less pay compared to someone who is both: the opposite sex. doing equal work for the same employer."
ACAS
Turkish91 said:
So a few issues needing some advice here...
Girlfriend works for a big national company within the leisure industry. She got furloughed in March and brought back to work in July, and yet somehow without realising she has been paid furlough pay for August & September. It actually says it on her payslip and is slightly down on her regularly basic pay... how she didn’t notice sooner I don’t know.
Most likely an admin error. Someone in payroll has forgotten to tick a box. Chase it up with her manager/payroll and get it sorted out.Girlfriend works for a big national company within the leisure industry. She got furloughed in March and brought back to work in July, and yet somehow without realising she has been paid furlough pay for August & September. It actually says it on her payslip and is slightly down on her regularly basic pay... how she didn’t notice sooner I don’t know.
Turkish91 said:
Next up... her contract changed in April 2017 to 37.5hr rather than 40hr with no change in pay. It’s only just dawned on her (3.5yrs later!) that she still works 40+hrs a week, with no official break or even time really to take a proper one. Her job role changed a lot and she gained a lot more responsibilities for no additional pay/lots more stress/more hours (essentially covering someone who went on maternity and a few leavers). To add to this she has been booking holiday as 8hrs per day taken rather than the 7.5 as her contract states.
Did she sign anything regarding this change? Employers can't just change your contract, you have to agree to it. The change from 40>37.5 is likey to be a change in the break being paid to unpaid, but i'm just educated guessing here because the maths works. 30 mins per day is now unpaid. If she's salaried then this change actually ups the hourly rate and doesn't really change anything, because whether it's 7.5 hours work and .5 hours break OR 8 hours work. The pay is still the same for the time spent at work. If it's hourly pay then she's losing 30 mins pay per day, but this won't take her below minimum wage, she just needs to make sure she's taking the break. If it's 30 mins she's not being paid for, then make sure to take it!
Anything over her contract hours she just needs to make sure she's being paid the overtime for it, or don't work it.
For the holidays, is her entitlement viewable online anywhere? Because all the systems i've worked with physically won't let anyone use 8 hours of holiday for a 7.5 hour day.
Turkish91 said:
Final one... again don’t ask me how she didn’t realise this sooner... based on the 40hrs she actually works rather than the 37.5h contracted, she isn’t even paid the minimum wage. To top it off her colleague doing the exact same job and been there half the time is paid about £2500 a year more. She’s asked for a payrise and essentially been told to jog on. As you can imagine... she is now looking for another job.
This will be because she's counting unpaid breaks as work time, if she volunteers to work through it then that's on her. If she's doing overtime and not being paid for it then she needs to make sure that changes, or be out the door at finishing time. A few updates -
Her colleague who does the same job has asked for his employment contract... turns out even though they genuinely actually do the exact same job he is down as a duty manager whereas she is just down as sales. They literally have the exact same roles, if anything she does a more extra tasks than him. Not sure where to go with that one now there is a difference on the contacts in writing.
In regards to the change from 40 to 37.5 - yes she did sign this and yes it was over minimum wage in 2017. However with no proper payrises since, based on the 40hrs she actually works, it’s now under minimum wage for 2020/21 guidelines. She has no official break, maybe 5-10mins “working break” at her computer to quickly scran some lunch. I’ve been telling her since we found out to either take this 30mins she isn’t being paid for or just leave 30mins early.
The holiday system - it lets her book the 8hrs for each day, and is what she’s been doing for the past 3yrs. Not sure how but it does.
Her colleague who does the same job has asked for his employment contract... turns out even though they genuinely actually do the exact same job he is down as a duty manager whereas she is just down as sales. They literally have the exact same roles, if anything she does a more extra tasks than him. Not sure where to go with that one now there is a difference on the contacts in writing.
In regards to the change from 40 to 37.5 - yes she did sign this and yes it was over minimum wage in 2017. However with no proper payrises since, based on the 40hrs she actually works, it’s now under minimum wage for 2020/21 guidelines. She has no official break, maybe 5-10mins “working break” at her computer to quickly scran some lunch. I’ve been telling her since we found out to either take this 30mins she isn’t being paid for or just leave 30mins early.
The holiday system - it lets her book the 8hrs for each day, and is what she’s been doing for the past 3yrs. Not sure how but it does.
Just to add - when she signed this contract change she was told it was a company wide thing, everyone’s moving on to them. Since she’s got her contract back at 37.5, 3 other members of staff have too and theirs all say 40hrs. I personally think they’ve done this to hit minimum wage without actually paying more money/changing the hours. Conveniently taking away a paid break and not really explaining the change properly to her?
A few questions
1) When you say she works 40 hours per week, is it that she's in the office for 40 hours per week, but her contracted working hours is 37.5? This would be typical, as it leaves 30 minutes a day for a lunch break. Is that what you mean by way of her still working 40 hours per week? Why does she not take a lunch break other than 'too busy' or workload? Is there something stopping her, for example, if she's a call handler and nobody can cover her?
2) The hourly rate should be based on [Salary / 52 / 37.5]. If your partner is older than 25, she would need an hourly rate of £8.72, or £17k p/a. If she's 21-24, it should be £8.20 or £15,990 p/a. 18-21 £6.45/£12.5k pa
Holiday systems can vary. Logically it should 'cost' 7.5 hrs for a day off in her case, but it depends how they've calculated her allowance. Have they given her "number of days off per contract * 8", or "number of days off per contract * 7.5"? If the former, then that seems to stack up. If the latter, she's being swindled! HR should be able to resolve this.
1) When you say she works 40 hours per week, is it that she's in the office for 40 hours per week, but her contracted working hours is 37.5? This would be typical, as it leaves 30 minutes a day for a lunch break. Is that what you mean by way of her still working 40 hours per week? Why does she not take a lunch break other than 'too busy' or workload? Is there something stopping her, for example, if she's a call handler and nobody can cover her?
2) The hourly rate should be based on [Salary / 52 / 37.5]. If your partner is older than 25, she would need an hourly rate of £8.72, or £17k p/a. If she's 21-24, it should be £8.20 or £15,990 p/a. 18-21 £6.45/£12.5k pa
Holiday systems can vary. Logically it should 'cost' 7.5 hrs for a day off in her case, but it depends how they've calculated her allowance. Have they given her "number of days off per contract * 8", or "number of days off per contract * 7.5"? If the former, then that seems to stack up. If the latter, she's being swindled! HR should be able to resolve this.
Edited by B9 on Friday 23 October 15:05
Turkish91 said:
A few updates -
Her colleague who does the same job has asked for his employment contract... turns out even though they genuinely actually do the exact same job he is down as a duty manager whereas she is just down as sales. They literally have the exact same roles, if anything she does a more extra tasks than him. Not sure where to go with that one now there is a difference on the contacts in writing.
In regards to the change from 40 to 37.5 - yes she did sign this and yes it was over minimum wage in 2017. However with no proper payrises since, based on the 40hrs she actually works, it’s now under minimum wage for 2020/21 guidelines. She has no official break, maybe 5-10mins “working break” at her computer to quickly scran some lunch. I’ve been telling her since we found out to either take this 30mins she isn’t being paid for or just leave 30mins early.
The holiday system - it lets her book the 8hrs for each day, and is what she’s been doing for the past 3yrs. Not sure how but it does.
What exactly does your GF do?Her colleague who does the same job has asked for his employment contract... turns out even though they genuinely actually do the exact same job he is down as a duty manager whereas she is just down as sales. They literally have the exact same roles, if anything she does a more extra tasks than him. Not sure where to go with that one now there is a difference on the contacts in writing.
In regards to the change from 40 to 37.5 - yes she did sign this and yes it was over minimum wage in 2017. However with no proper payrises since, based on the 40hrs she actually works, it’s now under minimum wage for 2020/21 guidelines. She has no official break, maybe 5-10mins “working break” at her computer to quickly scran some lunch. I’ve been telling her since we found out to either take this 30mins she isn’t being paid for or just leave 30mins early.
The holiday system - it lets her book the 8hrs for each day, and is what she’s been doing for the past 3yrs. Not sure how but it does.
Is this a manual pay-per-hour type role or is this an office-based salary role?
You mention sales. This therefore sounds like an office-based salary role?
If so, it's not uncommon when salaried and in this type of environment to work through breaks, etc. It's not necessarily right, but rigidly sticking to one's hours isn't good for longevity, if you get my drift.
B9 said:
A few questions
1) When you say she works 40 hours per week, is it that she's in the office for 40 hours per week, but her contracted working hours is 37.5? This would be typical, as it leaves 30 minutes a day for a lunch break. Is that what you mean by way of her still working 40 hours per week? Why does she not take a lunch break other than 'too busy' or workload? Is there something stopping her, for example, if she's a call handler and nobody can cover her?
2) The hourly rate should be based on [Salary / 52 / 37.5]. If your partner is older than 25, she would need an hourly rate of £8.72, or £17k p/a. If she's 21-24, it should be £8.20 or £15,990 p/a. 18-21 £6.45/£12.5k pa
Holiday systems can vary. Logically it should 'cost' 7.5 hrs for a day off in her case, but it depends how they've calculated her allowance. Have they given her "number of days off per contract * 8", or "number of days off per contract * 7.5"? If the former, then that seems to stack up. If the latter, she's being swindled! HR should be able to resolve this.
1 - Actually in for 40 hrs / 8hr shifts on the rota. Far too busy nearly every day & no one to cover to take it. Workplace ethics also seems to suggest it’s outrageous to do so/not the done thing - they had a new manager who has since left who would always take a 30min break and there was uproar amongst all the staff about it “how dare he” etc. In hindsight, she now thinks he was also contracted 37.5/week, realised he’s in for 8hrs each day and was merely taking his (totally justified) unpaid break.1) When you say she works 40 hours per week, is it that she's in the office for 40 hours per week, but her contracted working hours is 37.5? This would be typical, as it leaves 30 minutes a day for a lunch break. Is that what you mean by way of her still working 40 hours per week? Why does she not take a lunch break other than 'too busy' or workload? Is there something stopping her, for example, if she's a call handler and nobody can cover her?
2) The hourly rate should be based on [Salary / 52 / 37.5]. If your partner is older than 25, she would need an hourly rate of £8.72, or £17k p/a. If she's 21-24, it should be £8.20 or £15,990 p/a. 18-21 £6.45/£12.5k pa
Holiday systems can vary. Logically it should 'cost' 7.5 hrs for a day off in her case, but it depends how they've calculated her allowance. Have they given her "number of days off per contract * 8", or "number of days off per contract * 7.5"? If the former, then that seems to stack up. If the latter, she's being swindled! HR should be able to resolve this.
Edited by B9 on Friday 23 October 15:05
2. She is 29. Her salary works out at £9.16ph based on the 37.5hr contract, but as she is actually working 40, it drops to £8.59ph.
3. just working this out bare with me
Turkish91 said:
A few updates -
Her colleague who does the same job has asked for his employment contract... turns out even though they genuinely actually do the exact same job he is down as a duty manager whereas she is just down as sales. They literally have the exact same roles, if anything she does a more extra tasks than him. Not sure where to go with that one now there is a difference on the contacts in writing.
In regards to the change from 40 to 37.5 - yes she did sign this and yes it was over minimum wage in 2017. However with no proper payrises since, based on the 40hrs she actually works, it’s now under minimum wage for 2020/21 guidelines. She has no official break, maybe 5-10mins “working break” at her computer to quickly scran some lunch. I’ve been telling her since we found out to either take this 30mins she isn’t being paid for or just leave 30mins early.
The holiday system - it lets her book the 8hrs for each day, and is what she’s been doing for the past 3yrs. Not sure how but it does.
Please don't shoot me for saying this, but isn't it your girlfriends responsibility to take a half hour break?Her colleague who does the same job has asked for his employment contract... turns out even though they genuinely actually do the exact same job he is down as a duty manager whereas she is just down as sales. They literally have the exact same roles, if anything she does a more extra tasks than him. Not sure where to go with that one now there is a difference on the contacts in writing.
In regards to the change from 40 to 37.5 - yes she did sign this and yes it was over minimum wage in 2017. However with no proper payrises since, based on the 40hrs she actually works, it’s now under minimum wage for 2020/21 guidelines. She has no official break, maybe 5-10mins “working break” at her computer to quickly scran some lunch. I’ve been telling her since we found out to either take this 30mins she isn’t being paid for or just leave 30mins early.
The holiday system - it lets her book the 8hrs for each day, and is what she’s been doing for the past 3yrs. Not sure how but it does.
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