What gearbox for a 997 cup ?
Discussion
? I'm guessing by "Cup" box you are referring to the Hollinger sequential internals in a standard casing that the race cars ran?
If so PLEASE don't take this out, it's the main thing that sets a Cup car apart from a road car. Without that it's just an uncomfortable C2!
What, specifically, are you worried about with it? The standard multi-plate clutch is bitey but you could bin this off and fit something with more sensible for road use friction material (or just change the plates to organic ones) to give a more road car like clutch pedal, even with the fairly light flywheel they run as standard. The gearbox is pretty tough, especially if it's not got a young hot shoe in it trying to set a pole time. The flat shift is a little too brutal for the road perhaps (although nothing stops you clutching) and I get that having to heel and toe is perhaps a challenge but all of that is solveable.
Personally I'd put it on Shiftec paddle shift with a cable mounted blipper, the Shiftec GCU interfaces with the standard cut setup on the Bosch ECU and gives you proper hyper car style up shifts and down shifts where you only use the clutch at low speed and for pulling away. This always makes sure you're hitting the gearstick with sufficent force to be kind to the dogs so they last A LOT longer and removes the need for heel and toe because it takes that requirement away and robotises it. You can leave the stick in if you want so if you ever want to get properly involved for a brief spell you can but once you've driven a car with a sequential box on proper paddles you won't want to go back.
If so PLEASE don't take this out, it's the main thing that sets a Cup car apart from a road car. Without that it's just an uncomfortable C2!
What, specifically, are you worried about with it? The standard multi-plate clutch is bitey but you could bin this off and fit something with more sensible for road use friction material (or just change the plates to organic ones) to give a more road car like clutch pedal, even with the fairly light flywheel they run as standard. The gearbox is pretty tough, especially if it's not got a young hot shoe in it trying to set a pole time. The flat shift is a little too brutal for the road perhaps (although nothing stops you clutching) and I get that having to heel and toe is perhaps a challenge but all of that is solveable.
Personally I'd put it on Shiftec paddle shift with a cable mounted blipper, the Shiftec GCU interfaces with the standard cut setup on the Bosch ECU and gives you proper hyper car style up shifts and down shifts where you only use the clutch at low speed and for pulling away. This always makes sure you're hitting the gearstick with sufficent force to be kind to the dogs so they last A LOT longer and removes the need for heel and toe because it takes that requirement away and robotises it. You can leave the stick in if you want so if you ever want to get properly involved for a brief spell you can but once you've driven a car with a sequential box on proper paddles you won't want to go back.
Thanks Matt that is very interesting .
I think what I am trying to do is the opposite to others. They start with a C4 and then head towards a fast road/ track car. My logic is to start with a Cup car and make it slightly more road friendly.
Yes suspension will need making more compliant for face road/track. A light weight carpet set (and cup holders 🙂) to reduce road noise a little. My main concern had been living with the gearbox/clutch on the road. Running costs are also a slight consideration too.
It’s a bit silly but I love the Cup Looks and sounds Yes centre lock Cup wheels will bring their own problems I suspect that the wheel centres are Mag so not really suitable the our wonderful potholed roads but a aluminium replacement centre is easy to make when you have all the equipment and knowledge.
A fast road / track 997 Cup for fun what’s not to like !
Sam
I think what I am trying to do is the opposite to others. They start with a C4 and then head towards a fast road/ track car. My logic is to start with a Cup car and make it slightly more road friendly.
Yes suspension will need making more compliant for face road/track. A light weight carpet set (and cup holders 🙂) to reduce road noise a little. My main concern had been living with the gearbox/clutch on the road. Running costs are also a slight consideration too.
It’s a bit silly but I love the Cup Looks and sounds Yes centre lock Cup wheels will bring their own problems I suspect that the wheel centres are Mag so not really suitable the our wonderful potholed roads but a aluminium replacement centre is easy to make when you have all the equipment and knowledge.
A fast road / track 997 Cup for fun what’s not to like !
Sam
Redarress said:
Thanks Matt that is very interesting .
I think what I am trying to do is the opposite to others. They start with a C4 and then head towards a fast road/ track car. My logic is to start with a Cup car and make it slightly more road friendly.
Yes suspension will need making more compliant for face road/track. A light weight carpet set (and cup holders ??) to reduce road noise a little. My main concern had been living with the gearbox/clutch on the road. Running costs are also a slight consideration too.
It’s a bit silly but I love the Cup Looks and sounds Yes centre lock Cup wheels will bring their own problems I suspect that the wheel centres are Mag so not really suitable the our wonderful potholed roads but a aluminium replacement centre is easy to make when you have all the equipment and knowledge.
A fast road / track 997 Cup for fun what’s not to like !
Sam
Can’t PM you, do you have an email address I can contact you at ?I think what I am trying to do is the opposite to others. They start with a C4 and then head towards a fast road/ track car. My logic is to start with a Cup car and make it slightly more road friendly.
Yes suspension will need making more compliant for face road/track. A light weight carpet set (and cup holders ??) to reduce road noise a little. My main concern had been living with the gearbox/clutch on the road. Running costs are also a slight consideration too.
It’s a bit silly but I love the Cup Looks and sounds Yes centre lock Cup wheels will bring their own problems I suspect that the wheel centres are Mag so not really suitable the our wonderful potholed roads but a aluminium replacement centre is easy to make when you have all the equipment and knowledge.
A fast road / track 997 Cup for fun what’s not to like !
Sam
Redarress said:
Thanks Matt that is very interesting .
I think what I am trying to do is the opposite to others. They start with a C4 and then head towards a fast road/ track car. My logic is to start with a Cup car and make it slightly more road friendly.
Yes suspension will need making more compliant for face road/track. A light weight carpet set (and cup holders ??) to reduce road noise a little. My main concern had been living with the gearbox/clutch on the road. Running costs are also a slight consideration too.
It’s a bit silly but I love the Cup Looks and sounds Yes centre lock Cup wheels will bring their own problems I suspect that the wheel centres are Mag so not really suitable the our wonderful potholed roads but a aluminium replacement centre is easy to make when you have all the equipment and knowledge.
A fast road / track 997 Cup for fun what’s not to like !
Sam
I think the logic of it is fantastic and it's a great idea! The wheels are surprisingly strong, after all they were built to bounce kerbs on a regular basis, a crack test of what you have would be sensible just to make sure they've good but if you aren't planning to take it out in the salt then I think you'll be fine. I think what I am trying to do is the opposite to others. They start with a C4 and then head towards a fast road/ track car. My logic is to start with a Cup car and make it slightly more road friendly.
Yes suspension will need making more compliant for face road/track. A light weight carpet set (and cup holders ??) to reduce road noise a little. My main concern had been living with the gearbox/clutch on the road. Running costs are also a slight consideration too.
It’s a bit silly but I love the Cup Looks and sounds Yes centre lock Cup wheels will bring their own problems I suspect that the wheel centres are Mag so not really suitable the our wonderful potholed roads but a aluminium replacement centre is easy to make when you have all the equipment and knowledge.
A fast road / track 997 Cup for fun what’s not to like !
Sam
It would be worth seeing what plates are available for the clutch, it's very likely you can get some organic ones that are no where near as harsh as the sintered ones which will help massively there. As for the box, there are a few road legal cars running sequential boxes these days (BAC and Caterham for a start), the Hollinger internals were always strong in my experience with the only damage to dogs I used to see being from drivers failing to put sufficent effort into the shift. There are also a few companies making spares aside from Hollinger now - biggest wear used to be the diff plates but this is really no different to a standard GT3 if you are tracking it.
I get exactly where you are coming from with this, it's just I'd cry if I had to take the sequential out and replace it for a H-Pattern. Nothing beats flat up shifts and the amount of performance it adds is really quite something. The standard ratios aren't even that bad for road use
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