Are you one of the 3m in Rishi's blind spot?

[Louis Balfour]

In response to the coronavirus pandemic, the government has extended furlough until March next year and eligible self-employed are to receive more support.

But there are 3m people in the UK who are to get nothing.

Company directors who pay themselves in dividends, those who earn even £1 above the cut-off, those in the wrong sectors and freelancers will receive no support and have been told that they must rely upon the benefits system.

Government ministers have been quizzed and leant upon by the news people to explain why. Their response seems quite consistent: They shift uneasily in their seats, look off camera, waffle and try to deflect the question.

Given that this appears to be a hot potato politically, why has the government not addressed the problem?

[Stay in Bed Instead]

It does seem unfair that employees of a Ltd can get 80% of salary, but the owner/director can get little or nothing if mostly paid via dividends. Especially when you consider that it was the Tory party that sought to level up the difference between salary/dividends with the dividend tax.

The employer also has to pick up the cost of employers NI and pension contributions this time.

[steve2]

We really are the forgotten people, they think because we are company directors we earn a fortune where the reality is different .
I said right at the start of the first lockdown that they should have given us all a payment even if it was only £1000.00, it would help.
I have had to shut my carpet shop but Carpetright and Tapi carpets consider themselves essential and are still open,
There is a lot of self employed tradesmen who are earning very well at the moment and claiming the money from the government.

[PrinceRupert]

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

[Uncle John]

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Here we go. Didn’t take long.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Tax efficient manner does not mean no tax paid and the efficiency isn't what it once was.

Still, I have managed to avoid paying NI since 1993 but will still get a full state pension.

[monkfish1]

Uncle John said:

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Here we go. Didn’t take long.

Indeed. Ignorance is everywhere.

Under the new future, which we were already heading towards, there is to be NO reward for taking risk. Pay the same as PAYE people, but with none of the benefits that a PAYE position has. It can only end one way, obviously, but thats what both major parties want and are working towards.

With regard to the OP, the problem is simple, there are only 3 million of us. In a country of 70 million. No one, including Price Rupert, gives a st about us. Nor do they realise we actually employ a substatial proprtion of the working population.

[anonymous-user]

Uncle John said:

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Here we go. Didn’t take long.

As much as this is definitely not the time for schadenfreude (not saying it is from PR) there is an element of having cake and eating it though, with some directors and contractors.

By all means arrange your working and earning to pay less tax but there's always going to be a downside. This is that downside.

[Gecko1978]

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

If you paid 100k in tax via this method so have contributed way more than the average person and then are forced to close why is it not right you get something back....your taxes paid for it after all.

[Colonel Cupcake]

steve2 said:

We really are the forgotten people, they think because we are company directors we earn a fortune where the reality is different .
I said right at the start of the first lockdown that they should have given us all a payment even if it was only £1000.00, it would help.
I have had to shut my carpet shop but Carpetright and Tapi carpets consider themselves essential and are still open,
There is a lot of self employed tradesmen who are earning very well at the moment and claiming the money from the government.

Can you not consider yourself essential and stay open too?

[andy43]

monkfish1 said:

Uncle John said:

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Here we go. Didn’t take long.

Indeed. Ignorance is everywhere.

Under the new future, which we were already heading towards, there is to be NO reward for taking risk. Pay the same as PAYE people, but with none of the benefits that a PAYE position has. It can only end one way, obviously, but thats what both major parties want and are working towards.

With regard to the OP, the problem is simple, there are only 3 million of us. In a country of 70 million. No one, including Price Rupert, gives a st about us. Nor do they realise we actually employ a substatial proportion of the working population.

This.
No reward = no risk taking.
Pull the rug from under the entrepreneurs creating jobs and mortgage payments out of thin air and the economy will be screwed.

[W12GT]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Tax efficient manner does not mean no tax paid and the efficiency isn't what it once was.

Still, I have managed to avoid paying NI since 1993 but will still get a full state pension.

Do you honestly feel proud of yourself for that? Avoiding NI? The very wording of your statement shows you know you should be paying it. I’d be embarrassed to publish that on a public forum.

I say that being the owner of a company. Of course I could have more money in my pocket if I dodged and weaved the system - but if everyone did that we would have no NHS, no education system and no social care just for starters.

With an attitude like yours it’s no wonder HMRC have clamped down.

[Dick Dastardly]

And I have no doubt that a large chunk of that 3m will be paying a higher amount of tax than those enjoying furlough in the future to fund all of this.

[anonymous-user]

If you pay yourself as a normal employee isn't the reward the profit at the end of the year, to do with as you choose?

[Alucidnation]

PrinceRupert said:

Structure your operations in a tax-efficient manner in good times, demand support from the tax payer in bad times. No sympathy from me.

Wow.

Let's hope you don't post any more questions in the DIY forum.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

W12GT said:

Do you honestly feel proud of yourself for that? Avoiding NI? The very wording of your statement shows you know you should be paying it. I’d be embarrassed to publish that on a public forum.

I say that being the owner of a company. Of course I could have more money in my pocket if I dodged and weaved the system - but if everyone did that we would have no NHS, no education system and no social care just for starters.

With an attitude like yours it’s no wonder HMRC have clamped down.

Yeah, it's great. Screw the system before the system screws you.

What have HMRC clamped down on exactly?

[richardxjr]

How could this possibly be structured though? Taxpayer funded dividends!. How could that be implemented with any fairness at all?

[Gecko1978]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Your salary is net, dividends relate to profit so pay yourself x an then yes profit less dividend tax is yours (corp tax etc also due).

So you (as the Dir) generate a income stream that is taxed then come times of difficulty your contribution to society is suddenly deemed worthless

Its not cake an eat it, its simply if you pay tax and the state then make it impossible for you to work support should be there. It's not and more over the government don't want single dir Ltd's but they do want tax off you....

[anonymous-user]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Yeah, it's great. Screw the system before the system screws you.

What have HMRC clamped down on exactly?

Embarrassing.

I hope you or your family never need the NHS, or if you do you have to pay.

People like you ruin it for the rest of us, you are worse than a council-doley who spends their life sponging of the state.

[PrinceRupert]

richardxjr said:

How could this possibly be structured though? Taxpayer funded dividends!. How could that be implemented with any fairness at all?

Precisely. What about those whose income depends on dividends from companies they don't work for. Should the Government fund the dividends they haven't earned due to COVID-19 as well? Sole directors who elected to make themselves an employee and a director still have the power to furlough themselves and get Government support in that way.