The Ladies not for turning
Discussion
anonymoususer said:
That may have been true of Mrs Thatcher.
It seems that the current government just do whatever they think is popular.
Lord Heseltine has told Good Morning Britain that Boris Johnson is a politician who “waits to see the way the crowd is running and then dashes in front”.It seems that the current government just do whatever they think is popular.
He said: “Well, I think that you have to see Boris as a career map. He works it out, he decides which way the wind is blowing, and that wonderful phrase about a politician - a man who waits to see the way the crowd is running and then dashes in front and says, ‘Follow me’.”
https://www.itv.com/goodmorningbritain/articles/lo...
gruffalo said:
Thatcher had one huge advantage over modern day governments, she didn't have social media to contend with.
Social media is massively over rated in its importance, IMO and blaming everyone on it is a cop out.Thatcher had tabloids, militant unions,the BBC and the USSR sniping at her, and know it alls in every pub and at every dinner table who would tell you why she was wrong. It is far easier now to look up alternative view points or check claims against different sources.
The fact that our current crop of politicians seem to be obsessed with reading whatever b
ks is on Twitter and Facebook and building policy around that says nothing about social media itself and everything about the type of idiots we elect. The fact that we keep electing them reflects a far deeper malaise than what people post on Facebook. It is no different to Major tying himself in knots chasing tabloid headlines or previous Labour governments buying popularity by wasting money.Thatcher seems impressive in hindsight because she had an actual belief in the moral and intellectual value of what she was doing. She could face bad press and vehement opposition because she believed the logic of her arguments would win through and the she would be vindicated by the results of her policy. There may have been a degree of bloody minded lunacy to this.
I don't think Boris Johnson (or any other PM since, or many before) really has or had this view of an objective, tangible reality. Their reality is political expedience, poll ratings and adulation. Whether that's Twitter likes, Sun headlines or cheering crowds in the street matters not. Debt, inflation and demographic collapse are tomorrows problems for tomorrows politicians to evade.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
gruffalo said:
Thatcher had one huge advantage over modern day governments, she didn't have social media to contend with.
Social media is massively over rated in its importance, IMO and blaming everyone on it is a cop out.Thatcher had tabloids, militant unions,the BBC and the USSR sniping at her, and know it alls in every pub and at every dinner table who would tell you why she was wrong. It is far easier now to look up alternative view points or check claims against different sources.
The fact that our current crop of politicians seem to be obsessed with reading whatever b
ks is on Twitter and Facebook and building policy around that says nothing about social media itself and everything about the type of idiots we elect. The fact that we keep electing them reflects a far deeper malaise than what people post on Facebook. It is no different to Major tying himself in knots chasing tabloid headlines or previous Labour governments buying popularity by wasting money.Thatcher seems impressive in hindsight because she had an actual belief in the moral and intellectual value of what she was doing. She could face bad press and vehement opposition because she believed the logic of her arguments would win through and the she would be vindicated by the results of her policy. There may have been a degree of bloody minded lunacy to this.
I don't think Boris Johnson (or any other PM since, or many before) really has or had this view of an objective, tangible reality. Their reality is political expedience, poll ratings and adulation. Whether that's Twitter likes, Sun headlines or cheering crowds in the street matters not. Debt, inflation and demographic collapse are tomorrows problems for tomorrows politicians to evade.
Thatcher actually had plans and a way of progressing that she believed in ideologically.
Boris just goes with public opinion and gives into whatever latest woke cause is trending. He’s got no political conviction at all and is dishonest.
Pretty much polar opposite ways of running government and the country.
I disagreed with some of thatcher’s actions but I always thought she was honest, led by example and respected her as a leader.
Whenever a thread associated with Thatcher appears I cannot help but think back to the miners strike and the introduction of the poll tax.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
crankedup said:
Whenever a thread associated with Thatcher appears I cannot help but think back to the miners strike and the introduction of the poll tax.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The poll tax was a fairer systemThe miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
crankedup said:
Whenever a thread associated with Thatcher appears I cannot help but think back to the miners strike and the introduction of the poll tax.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
Don't start me on the Poll Tax - I would rather every individual paid their way than I pay more cos I live in a 3 or 4 bedroom house on my own.The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
V8covin said:
crankedup said:
Whenever a thread associated with Thatcher appears I cannot help but think back to the miners strike and the introduction of the poll tax.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The poll tax was a fairer systemThe miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The policy was a hugely divisive, certainly winners and losers, even the Chief policy maker, Michael Portillo admitted it was a huge error introducing such a policy. The fact that Thatcher placed far too much trust in her advisors regarding this policy was a major part of her undoing. For a person living in a mansion paying less than people living in a three bed house in Bolton was seen as hugely unfair. And politics really is as much about perception as practicality and fairness. We see demonstrations of that from Government during the Covid crisis.
As for the closing down of the mining industry, well it was overdue, however to not have decent Social safety nets was unforgivable.
crankedup said:
V8covin said:
crankedup said:
Whenever a thread associated with Thatcher appears I cannot help but think back to the miners strike and the introduction of the poll tax.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The poll tax was a fairer systemThe miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The policy was a hugely divisive, certainly winners and losers, even the Chief policy maker, Michael Portillo admitted it was a huge error introducing such a policy. The fact that Thatcher placed far too much trust in her advisors regarding this policy was a major part of her undoing. For a person living in a mansion paying less than people living in a three bed house in Bolton was seen as hugely unfair. And politics really is as much about perception as practicality and fairness. We see demonstrations of that from Government during the Covid crisis.
As for the closing down of the mining industry, well it was overdue, however to not have decent Social safety nets was unforgivable.
If one person (or two if married & no kids) lives in a mansion, does that person use MORE or LESS of the local services than a family of six or eight living in a three or four bedroom house?
The Poll tax was fair - some people didn't want to pay for their fair share.
crankedup said:
Whenever a thread associated with Thatcher appears I cannot help but think back to the miners strike and the introduction of the poll tax.
The miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
Me tooThe miners strike was brought about by a very harsh policy which disregarded all of the Social and political ramifications it would and did bring. Many workers will now be feeling the effects of a Government policy which sees their jobs thrown aside, I speak of the Covid crisis of course. Those workers are ‘fortunate’ in as much as the Government financial aid applied to assist, miners were not so fortunate. I know it’s history but it’s important history which divided the Country and was now just beginning to heal.
Then the introduction of the Poll Tax, huge Social and political mistake. And I speak as a person who has voted Tory for years.
The miners strike is the first thing that comes to mind, some miners being able to get through the picket lines left many families with problems, communities were destroyed. Very sad times. I speak as someone that doesn't vote due to my mistrust in politicians
Miners was inevitable. If it hadn't been them it would have been another group. It's very hard for people who didn't live through that time to imagine quite what an ideological struggle was taking place.
Poll tax was fair and should have been pushed through. Exactly the same as May's 'dementia tax'.
Poll tax was fair and should have been pushed through. Exactly the same as May's 'dementia tax'.
gruffalo said:
Thatcher had one huge advantage over modern day governments, she didn't have social media to contend with.
Indeed, half of the problem with Donald Trump was we got to see how he is, in high definition within seconds of his latest Faux Pas.Previous presidents were better, hard to be a more unpleasant individual but we got a more stage managed version, appearances, speeches and the odd soundbite. But Trump would circumvent that by sitting up in bed having a Twitter battle with Meryl Streep at 1am, that JFK seems so dignified in comparison might be down to him not being able to go for a poo holding his phone and come out with some unfiltered utter nonsense.
I suppose Obama managed to retain some gravitas but he isnt Donald Trump. Still cant believe he managed to become president.
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