Had a 111S, thinking of getting a 111R, HELP?
Discussion
Over the last two years I've been running a S2 111S as my everyday car. A lovely car but not the most practical.
Anyway the 111S is gone in exchange for a slightly more sensible commuting car, but I'm getting the itch again and am feeling a bit flush.
I'm thinking of going the whole hog and buying a 111R, but need advice from those in the know on how it differs from 111S.
Any takers?
>> Edited by gtvroom on Wednesday 29th June 21:02
Anyway the 111S is gone in exchange for a slightly more sensible commuting car, but I'm getting the itch again and am feeling a bit flush.
I'm thinking of going the whole hog and buying a 111R, but need advice from those in the know on how it differs from 111S.
Any takers?
>> Edited by gtvroom on Wednesday 29th June 21:02
found the ride a lot better too. engine can be a bit peaky, but IMHO thats the fun of the thing, just another reason to hang on to the lower gears, 3rd is so sweet. ABS is a safety consideration, but only had it cut in twice, and then I was being a bit silly!!!! Gear selector is more positive too, which is nice.
Having only ever driven the 111R so can only give you my perception of that, in comparioson to other peoples comments on the 111S.
Yes its faster
yes it heavier
yes is better built
yes the engine is fun.
No it doesnt follow the true Chapman ethos of low weight/high power, in comparison to the 111S.
The engine has 2 different charactors. Off cam its a fast car handles as you would expect and is fairly econimical.
On cam its a completely different car. There is a slight but noticable kick as it goes onto Cam. It takes a while to learn how to keep the car on the Cam and without that lesson learnt, the car isnt much better than a 111S. In some peoples oppinion, it means its not as good.
In the end its down to personnel taste, some prefer the higher powered K-Series e.g. S160, others prefer the added reliability of the Toyota engine. If you are going to use this as a daily driver, then I'm guessing reliability is a factor.
Thats my 2p's worth, hope it helps
Yes its faster
yes it heavier
yes is better built
yes the engine is fun.
No it doesnt follow the true Chapman ethos of low weight/high power, in comparison to the 111S.
The engine has 2 different charactors. Off cam its a fast car handles as you would expect and is fairly econimical.
On cam its a completely different car. There is a slight but noticable kick as it goes onto Cam. It takes a while to learn how to keep the car on the Cam and without that lesson learnt, the car isnt much better than a 111S. In some peoples oppinion, it means its not as good.
In the end its down to personnel taste, some prefer the higher powered K-Series e.g. S160, others prefer the added reliability of the Toyota engine. If you are going to use this as a daily driver, then I'm guessing reliability is a factor.
Thats my 2p's worth, hope it helps
Thanks guys, it all helps. Two of my main worries were:
1/ how the car performed on-cam (some people have said that its unpredictable). But you've answered that question, so thanks.
but what about....
2/ the addition of ABS. As you know, there is no ABS on the 111S, which made the braking extremely progressive and accurate. I'm the sort of driver that likes to indulge in a spot ot late braking now and then. Does the ABS on the 111R kick in too early and ruin the party, or are the brakes as fantastic as ever?
Cheers
vroom
>> Edited by gtvroom on Thursday 30th June 07:30
1/ how the car performed on-cam (some people have said that its unpredictable). But you've answered that question, so thanks.
but what about....
2/ the addition of ABS. As you know, there is no ABS on the 111S, which made the braking extremely progressive and accurate. I'm the sort of driver that likes to indulge in a spot ot late braking now and then. Does the ABS on the 111R kick in too early and ruin the party, or are the brakes as fantastic as ever?
Cheers
vroom
>> Edited by gtvroom on Thursday 30th June 07:30
Regarding the brake, and reading the Lotus website technical tips, it is the weak point of the R. this does not mean that the brake are not great but they are the point which need to be improved or the point which is not as (very) good as the rest of the car.
the first inch of pedal travel is useless. and indirectly caused by the abs (something regarding the travel of the main cylinder of so)
The feeling of the pedal is too smooth for me, too spongy (is this english?)
BUT
the efficiency is great and ABS does not interfere too quickly. I only notice once with heavy heavy breaking on the dry before a soft bump. Didn't try on the wet so far. You can hardly push on the pedal and even if the feeling is not the same as on S1 elise, it is really good. In a country with a lot of rain I see the ABS as a plus, even if the feeling of the pedal is.. at least strange, particularly for such a car...
Ben
regarding S vs R, I see the second cam of the R as an option, if you want "great feeling" use it and it is addicting but change your view of the car (2 motors in one chassis) or if you prefer something more homogenous the S makes sense
the first inch of pedal travel is useless. and indirectly caused by the abs (something regarding the travel of the main cylinder of so)
The feeling of the pedal is too smooth for me, too spongy (is this english?)
BUT
the efficiency is great and ABS does not interfere too quickly. I only notice once with heavy heavy breaking on the dry before a soft bump. Didn't try on the wet so far. You can hardly push on the pedal and even if the feeling is not the same as on S1 elise, it is really good. In a country with a lot of rain I see the ABS as a plus, even if the feeling of the pedal is.. at least strange, particularly for such a car...
Ben
regarding S vs R, I see the second cam of the R as an option, if you want "great feeling" use it and it is addicting but change your view of the car (2 motors in one chassis) or if you prefer something more homogenous the S makes sense
cheers bher, I'll bear all that in mind.
One of my favourite features on the S was the brakes, BUT I crave more power.
I've never got over the time when I was in my S on the motorway and was spanked by a Civic Type R; the most annoying thing was that there were 4 hoodie wearing t*ssers in the Type R, who probably couldn't drive to save their lives.
MORE POWER NEEDED WHEN NOT ON B ROADS I THINK!
Vroom
One of my favourite features on the S was the brakes, BUT I crave more power.
I've never got over the time when I was in my S on the motorway and was spanked by a Civic Type R; the most annoying thing was that there were 4 hoodie wearing t*ssers in the Type R, who probably couldn't drive to save their lives.
MORE POWER NEEDED WHEN NOT ON B ROADS I THINK!
Vroom
I think you need to have a good drive to be sure. The 2nd cam of my 111R was initially a concern for me but I've since adapted my driving style. The extra power happens at 6.2KRPM so the band is quite narrow meaning the car has to be worked hard in terms of gear changes if you want to keep the rapid pace. If I'm honest, I'd prefer a car with a more linear power curve but the 111R suits me (rather than the S)because of the more reliable engine / improved ride and setup. Some people also say they like the dual personality - every day performance and then the additional power if you're in the mood. It's easy to find faults with most things - it's one heck of experience that no other car is able to come close. Just don't drive the VXT - you may like the engine a little too much... 
>> Edited by shot2bits on Thursday 30th June 09:18
>> Edited by shot2bits on Thursday 30th June 09:18
Thanks shot,
I'll definately take the R for a long test drive and will hopefully get to see some of its split personality!
I know the VXT is supposed to be a great car, but I'm not sure I could lower myself!
>> Edited by gtvroom on Thursday 30th June 09:50
>> Edited by gtvroom on Thursday 30th June 09:52
I'll definately take the R for a long test drive and will hopefully get to see some of its split personality!
I know the VXT is supposed to be a great car, but I'm not sure I could lower myself!
>> Edited by gtvroom on Thursday 30th June 09:50
>> Edited by gtvroom on Thursday 30th June 09:52
beachbum said:
No it doesnt follow the true Chapman ethos of low weight/high power, in comparison to the 111S.
I would argue that chapmans true ethos is VERY hard to comply too these days. The legal requirements of a modern vehicle are long and stringent and every one of them will add to the weight of the car.
I would argue that the 111R is as close to the "simplify and add lightness" ethos you can get in a modern car.
I should add a small disclaimer, I am refering to a modern international car. The 111s for all its virtue and light weight is not an international car.
You're spot on Gooby,
Cars are inherently heavier due to the safety requirements for the country in which they are to be sold. As soon as you try to produce an international product these requirements are multiplied. (the US in particular)
I still see the 111R as true to the ethos, just the context has changed. I do feel that those who criticise perhaps do not understand what is involved, or let the emotion of the situation overpower the logic.
I would love for Lotus to produce an affordable 500kg car that they could sell around the world. This was possible in the 1960s (Elan) but not today!
Regards, Neil
Cars are inherently heavier due to the safety requirements for the country in which they are to be sold. As soon as you try to produce an international product these requirements are multiplied. (the US in particular)
I still see the 111R as true to the ethos, just the context has changed. I do feel that those who criticise perhaps do not understand what is involved, or let the emotion of the situation overpower the logic.
I would love for Lotus to produce an affordable 500kg car that they could sell around the world. This was possible in the 1960s (Elan) but not today!
Regards, Neil
You only have to look at the old MGB's. It was a great car then they wanted the US market and they put on those awful black bumpers and raised it up by about a foot. Ruined the car.
The big difference is that Lotus have not ruined the 111R, they have made a brilliant car that is good for all markets.
The big difference is that Lotus have not ruined the 111R, they have made a brilliant car that is good for all markets.
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