FA's Greg Clarke

[bitchstewie]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at just how wrong this went for him

Greg Clarke resigns as Football Association chairman after remark about black players

[anonymous-user]

What's his username on here etc...

As above, decided to dig a large hole.

[Seattaken]

Fish rots from the head.

[toohuge]

Not wanting to cause an argument and not in support of this guy - I don’t follow football at all.

The bbc article states Clarke was deeply sorry for using the term ‘coloured footballers’. However, in the news at the moment, there are numerous headlines about Kamala Harris as ‘1st women of colour’.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kamala-harris-make...


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/07/ka...



I guess what I am asking is ‘person of colour’ acceptable and ‘coloured’ not?

Not looking for an argument - just trying to figure out what is and isn’t acceptable given how very close the terms are.

[amusingduck]

toohuge said:

I guess what I am asking is ‘person of colour’ acceptable and ‘coloured’ not?

Not looking for an argument - just trying to figure out what is and isn’t acceptable given how very close the terms are.

The reasoning I've heard is that PoC emphasises the person first, rather than the skin.

That's not the confusing bit IMO, the confusing bit is why people who view the world around them through a racial lens think they're morally superior.

[anonymous-user]

Yes, POC (person of colour) is the modern and acceptable term.

As above I can forgive the occasional slip given past terminology etc - given the largest civil rights group in existence being the NAACP - The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People etc.

But to be the head of an organisation with a huge racism issue (especially abroad) and to not know this stuff is just inexcusable - and that’s before he talks about IT centres and gay people....

[toohuge]

amusingduck said:

The reasoning I've heard is that PoC emphasises the person first, rather than the skin.

That's not the confusing bit IMO, the confusing bit is why people who view the world around them through a racial lens think they're morally superior.

Thank you and agreed

[kevinon]

He gave the impression he has only ever hung out with old, white, straight men. Everybody else is in category marked 'the rest'.

Also, the story he spun about his 'non-involvement' in the breakaway plan was undermined by the fact he got involved in 18 revisions of the plan. He is not worthy of trust.

Kinda related: Gordon Taylor is still boss of the Professional Footballers Association and getting £2 million a year, despite Covid. How do these people rise to the top?

[Ian Geary]

I was initially tempted to make a flippant response on this theead, but if anything it reminds me how much care is needed about language.

But then I thought...why is it language? Surely it's the thinking, or the "lense" we view the world through that is the important bit.

Did this guy slip? And allow his fundamentally racist view to get past his guard?

Or did he just say some reasonable things inelegantly, that the professionally offended live for?

Or, it is just somewhere in the middle? (Which it usually is, tbh)


Ps I wonder how many Asians Vs Africans there actually "are" in the FA's it department?

That is a statement of fact surely, given he was the boss of the place. Is this now unsayable? I'm not sure of the context here though

[GMT13]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

No sympathy from me. I can understand an occasional 'slip,' which harks back to events and language earlier in life, but if you're the FA chairman I think it's best not to;

- Refer to anyone with outdated racial terms
- Talk about how he's lots of South Asians in his IT department
- Say gay people made a life choice to be gay
- Say women are scared of footballs.

He didn't say people made a life choice to be gay. He was talking about the act of 'coming out' being a life choice.

Everything he said was said with the best intentions but you can't hold that sort of position in 2020 unless you're comfortable with all the latest terminologies. He needs to go on some sort of woke awareness course.

[anonymous-user]

GMT13 said:

He didn't say people made a life choice to be gay. He was talking about the act of 'coming out' being a life choice.

Everything he said was said with the best intentions but you can't hold that sort of position in 2020 unless you're comfortable with all the latest terminologies. He needs to go on some sort of woke awareness course.

He wasn’t talking about the act of coming out in the slightest.

And here’s the first person complaining about the ‘wokeness.’

[GMT13]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

GMT13 said:

He didn't say people made a life choice to be gay. He was talking about the act of 'coming out' being a life choice.

Everything he said was said with the best intentions but you can't hold that sort of position in 2020 unless you're comfortable with all the latest terminologies. He needs to go on some sort of woke awareness course.

He wasn’t talking about the act of coming out in the slightest.

And here’s the first person complaining about the ‘wokeness.’

That's how I interpreted it. I can't find the full quote now but when I watched it he was answering a question about why no gay players have come out. His answer involved the life choice of 'disclosing your sexuality'. I'd be interested in your take if you thought he wasn't talking about the act of coming out 'in the slightest', maybe I misinterpreted it, did you watch it?

I wasn't complaining about wokeness by the way, that was a genuine comment!

[Randy Winkman]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

GMT13 said:

He didn't say people made a life choice to be gay. He was talking about the act of 'coming out' being a life choice.

Everything he said was said with the best intentions but you can't hold that sort of position in 2020 unless you're comfortable with all the latest terminologies. He needs to go on some sort of woke awareness course.

He wasn’t talking about the act of coming out in the slightest.

And here’s the first person complaining about the ‘wokeness.’

Exactly. A person who actually knows about the topics they are supposed to be very well paid to lead on wouldn't need to go on a course. Unless we just give the best jobs to the nearest old white bloke.

[amgmcqueen]

Clarke is an absolute dinosaur....as are most of the FA.

Good riddance.

[Murph7355]

GMT13 said:

He didn't say people made a life choice to be gay. He was talking about the act of 'coming out' being a life choice.

Everything he said was said with the best intentions but you can't hold that sort of position in 2020 unless you're comfortable with all the latest terminologies. He needs to go on some sort of woke awareness course.

Judging by the bit I heard on the radio on "coloured players" I can well imagine the rest was blown out proportion/taken out of context. And I totally agree on the intent - anyone hearing the bit noted couldn't fail to see that I hope.

Still, the guy resigned. I'm sure he'll be paid off nicely.

[leef44]

amgmcqueen said:

Clarke is an absolute dinosaur....as are most of the FA.

Good riddance.

This is probably the main issue. Until all the old dinosaurs are removed or leave then an organisation is only as diverse as the senior management culture cascaded down.

This cannot change organically until it starts from the top.

[johnboy1975]

amusingduck said:

toohuge said:

I guess what I am asking is ‘person of colour’ acceptable and ‘coloured’ not?

Not looking for an argument - just trying to figure out what is and isn’t acceptable given how very close the terms are.

The reasoning I've heard is that PoC emphasises the person first, rather than the skin.

That's not the confusing bit IMO, the confusing bit is why people who view the world around them through a racial lens think they're morally superior.

So footballers of colour is ok then?

I do struggle with this a bit especially as the woke term BAME seems to by its very definition, lump all the non whites into a seperate group

Jonathan Pie

https://youtu.be/eY4A8ofN7n0

[Electro1980]

GMT13 said:

That's how I interpreted it. I can't find the full quote now but when I watched it he was answering a question about why no gay players have come out. His answer involved the life choice of 'disclosing your sexuality'. I'd be interested in your take if you thought he wasn't talking about the act of coming out 'in the slightest', maybe I misinterpreted it, did you watch it?

I wasn't complaining about wokeness by the way, that was a genuine comment!

Even if he was referring to disclosing sexuality, don’t you see the issue in trying claim that the reason there is no openly gay players is because they chose not too come out rather than fear, and that it’s all ok?

[Esceptico]

johnboy1975 said:

So footballers of colour is ok then?

I do struggle with this a bit especially as the woke term BAME seems to by its very definition, lump all the non whites into a seperate group

Jonathan Pie

https://youtu.be/eY4A8ofN7n0

I hate the term POC. So does my wife - who originating from India now falls into that category. She asked me whether it means I am a Person without colour?

I am a very liberal person and at least by PH standards left wing but the constant focus on what words people use rather than what they are saying (or thinking) does my head in.

And with respect to South Asians and football I seem to recall reading an article (in The Guardian no less!) some years back on why there were very few Indians in the U.K. football leagues and culture was mentioned ie that Indian families do put pressure on their children to focus on studies and certain careers (accountants, doctors, lawyers, IT). Only anecdotal evidence but almost all the Indians (admittedly middle class) I know personally through my friends and wife fall into those categories.

[Seanrof]

Hardly a big deal is it ? Just because someone is 'offended' , that doesn't make them right. When exactly did sticks and stones may break my bones etc not become relevant anymore ?

Famous black rappers, which I have listened to with much respect and admiration over the last 30 years, continually use the N word. They call white people 'honky and cracker' in their lyrics. Does it bother me ? 'No' . It probably bothers others, so should they be sacked from their record label ? God no.

This guy has apologized, why cant he be sent on a course or whatever, and lets just move on.

I worked in the Met a number of years ago. For some time after the Stephen Lawrence murder, we were not even allowed to say the word black in our nick. Our Top brass were petrified then of us saying something that would or could upset someone. We even couldnt order a black coffee, but had to order a coffee with 'no milk' in our East end Station canteen.

The guy is a dinosaur, so what ? Give him a break and give him a chance, don't just throw him out with the trash.