Discussion
If only they had gone for a bigger battery, Price of Zoe but range of a Honda-e 
https://youtu.be/o-9EDOik-MQ
https://youtu.be/o-9EDOik-MQ
A lot of these companies don't want to yet sell big numbers of EVs, probably because of pressure from their ICE workers/departments, so they are slowly ramping this up starting with low sales.
It's a strange thing to watch happen. They will likely double the battery size once they have shifted more of their old ICE stock.
It's a strange thing to watch happen. They will likely double the battery size once they have shifted more of their old ICE stock.
Or have they got things right in terms of what they call "rightsizing"??
It seems to be following the same path as Honda and Mini i.e. If it's a second car, then there's no need for a huge range and therefore no need for a large battery.. The benefit is then surely a reduction in weight which allows for better ride and handling.. From what I've read in the early reviews, it drives much more like a normal car, rather than being "Like an EV"
It seems to be following the same path as Honda and Mini i.e. If it's a second car, then there's no need for a huge range and therefore no need for a large battery.. The benefit is then surely a reduction in weight which allows for better ride and handling.. From what I've read in the early reviews, it drives much more like a normal car, rather than being "Like an EV"
Superhoop said:
Or have they got things right in terms of what they call "rightsizing"??
It seems to be following the same path as Honda and Mini i.e. If it's a second car, then there's no need for a huge range and therefore no need for a large battery.. The benefit is then surely a reduction in weight which allows for better ride and handling.. From what I've read in the early reviews, it drives much more like a normal car, rather than being "Like an EV"
I'd tend to agree, the issue is that people are so obsessed with absolute range that even if it would work absolutely fine for their circumstances they'll still be put off. It seems to be following the same path as Honda and Mini i.e. If it's a second car, then there's no need for a huge range and therefore no need for a large battery.. The benefit is then surely a reduction in weight which allows for better ride and handling.. From what I've read in the early reviews, it drives much more like a normal car, rather than being "Like an EV"
jjwilde said:
A lot of these companies don't want to yet sell big numbers of EVs, probably because of pressure from their ICE workers/departments, so they are slowly ramping this up starting with low sales.
It's a strange thing to watch happen. They will likely double the battery size once they have shifted more of their old ICE stock.
With the demand for less batteries per cars they might end up being able to sell more...It's a strange thing to watch happen. They will likely double the battery size once they have shifted more of their old ICE stock.
Surely the other thing is the cost.. more range equals more cost as a result of a bigger battery, more cost to charge and for the most part, for people's daily commute, the battery in the MX-30, Honda E and the Mini E is sufficient, with some capacity to spare.. So why pay more for the car to have an increased battery size/range when it isn't actually going to provide any additional benefit.. The car will be heavier and ride/handling will be affected, and it will take longer to charge..
I find it odd that the first question anyone ever asks about an EV is "How many miles will it do on one charge" as surely as long as it is enough for daily requirements, it's irrelevant
I ride an MV Agusta, it has a range of about 90-100 miles at best.. Not one person i have ever met has actually asked me that question though..
I find it odd that the first question anyone ever asks about an EV is "How many miles will it do on one charge" as surely as long as it is enough for daily requirements, it's irrelevant
I ride an MV Agusta, it has a range of about 90-100 miles at best.. Not one person i have ever met has actually asked me that question though..
Superhoop said:
Surely the other thing is the cost.. more range equals more cost
When the eNiro and Kona 64kWh first came out the difference at retail between those and the 39kWh was about €4k. So that gives you some idea of the price of 25kWh of battery capacity a couple of years back.I think a lot of people would gladly pay that kind of money to get a 25kWh upgrade. In fact people do pay that kind of money, not just for the Kia and Hyundai models but to upgrade old Leafs and eNV200s.
It’s also a question of economics as the battery is an average of 50% of the total cost of materials. Hence, they can achieve a great visual retail price, but it smacks of a car to drive down their C02 and mitigate any EU penalties. This size of vehicle with this battery size does not compute..
Just watched this video and it's actually hilarious how little sense this car makes even if the range is ignored 
Contender for the worse modern EV!?
A four door car that offers the convenience of a two door car and has a back seat too small to use anyway, and a porthole for a window. That's just the start of the genuine issues this s
tter offers the befuddled motorist that buys one 
Contender for the worse modern EV!?
A four door car that offers the convenience of a two door car and has a back seat too small to use anyway, and a porthole for a window. That's just the start of the genuine issues this s
tter offers the befuddled motorist that buys one TheDeuce said:
Just watched this video and it's actually hilarious how little sense this car makes even if the range is ignored
Contender for the worse modern EV!?
A four door car that offers the convenience of a two door car and has a back seat too small to use anyway, and a porthole for a window. That's just the start of the genuine issues this stter offers the befuddled motorist that buys one
The front doors make a lot of sense - another poster said how useful that is for those with restricted mobility.Contender for the worse modern EV!?
A four door car that offers the convenience of a two door car and has a back seat too small to use anyway, and a porthole for a window. That's just the start of the genuine issues this s
tter offers the befuddled motorist that buys one I don't see the cork being that daft either. It's a sustainable material and links to Mazda's history - https://www.insidemazda.co.uk/2020/04/01/cork-and-...
Aren't most iDrive systems very similar to the Mazda one and not have a touch screen?
rscott said:
The front doors make a lot of sense - another poster said how useful that is for those with restricted mobility.
I don't see the cork being that daft either. It's a sustainable material and links to Mazda's history - https://www.insidemazda.co.uk/2020/04/01/cork-and-...
Aren't most iDrive systems very similar to the Mazda one and not have a touch screen?
No problem with the cork, although I think it'll show wear quite quickly. Their 'i-drive' system also fine, and whilst most such systems do now also allow touch screen functionality, it's still sensible to have the dial, so I'm glad this Mazda does. But then flying in the face of that logic, the climate controls are only touchscreen!I don't see the cork being that daft either. It's a sustainable material and links to Mazda's history - https://www.insidemazda.co.uk/2020/04/01/cork-and-...
Aren't most iDrive systems very similar to the Mazda one and not have a touch screen?
No problems with the front doors either, although they don't look any bigger than my front doors tbh. It's the back doors and seat that make no sense to me..
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 5th January 15:26
OEMster said:
It’s also a question of economics as the battery is an average of 50% of the total cost of materials. Hence, they can achieve a great visual retail price, but it smacks of a car to drive down their C02 and mitigate any EU penalties. This size of vehicle with this battery size does not compute..
It was designed to have a range extender rotary engine from launch, that got delayed and they needed to meet targets so here we are. Range extender version should make more sense.l354uge said:
OEMster said:
It’s also a question of economics as the battery is an average of 50% of the total cost of materials. Hence, they can achieve a great visual retail price, but it smacks of a car to drive down their C02 and mitigate any EU penalties. This size of vehicle with this battery size does not compute..
It was designed to have a range extender rotary engine from launch, that got delayed and they needed to meet targets so here we are. Range extender version should make more sense.I'm not if that makes it a more attractive proposition though... A rotary engine kind of suffers from all the traditional issues of wear and tear and consumption that an EV largely solves, kind of undoes the benefit of having an EV.
Having said that, if it's the case that at low and constant RPM a little rotary engine can last 'forever' and consume very little fuel (and virtually zero oil), then fair enough..
TheDeuce said:
Always trying to punt those rotary engines in something!
I'm not if that makes it a more attractive proposition though... A rotary engine kind of suffers from all the traditional issues of wear and tear and consumption that an EV largely solves, kind of undoes the benefit of having an EV.
Having said that, if it's the case that at low and constant RPM a little rotary engine can last 'forever' and consume very little fuel (and virtually zero oil), then fair enough..
Friend of mine has a Peugeot plug in hybrid. Saw him over new year's eve and he said his petrol gauge has been in the red for about half a year. I'm not if that makes it a more attractive proposition though... A rotary engine kind of suffers from all the traditional issues of wear and tear and consumption that an EV largely solves, kind of undoes the benefit of having an EV.
Having said that, if it's the case that at low and constant RPM a little rotary engine can last 'forever' and consume very little fuel (and virtually zero oil), then fair enough..
His range is only about 40km.
So a rotary could make sense, as with a battery like this, they are almost never used.
Maintenance doesn't really come in to it if it's only doing the equivalent of a couple of thousand km's/year.
ZesPak said:
TheDeuce said:
Always trying to punt those rotary engines in something!
I'm not if that makes it a more attractive proposition though... A rotary engine kind of suffers from all the traditional issues of wear and tear and consumption that an EV largely solves, kind of undoes the benefit of having an EV.
Having said that, if it's the case that at low and constant RPM a little rotary engine can last 'forever' and consume very little fuel (and virtually zero oil), then fair enough..
Friend of mine has a Peugeot plug in hybrid. Saw him over new year's eve and he said his petrol gauge has been in the red for about half a year. I'm not if that makes it a more attractive proposition though... A rotary engine kind of suffers from all the traditional issues of wear and tear and consumption that an EV largely solves, kind of undoes the benefit of having an EV.
Having said that, if it's the case that at low and constant RPM a little rotary engine can last 'forever' and consume very little fuel (and virtually zero oil), then fair enough..
His range is only about 40km.
So a rotary could make sense, as with a battery like this, they are almost never used.
Maintenance doesn't really come in to it if it's only doing the equivalent of a couple of thousand km's/year.
They also sell this car in other regions as a mild hybrid, I wonder how many sales they get there and if that makes it worthwhile alone?
It could make sense, since it won't be a plug in hybrid, but more of an i3 REX situation, since this still has about 3x the range of most PHEVs. Be interesting to hear the experience of some i3 REX owners in terms of the use the petrol engine gets (I know this will be use case per use case of course).
cml24 said:
It seems on face value like a reasonably good idea. The rotary engine is small and light for the amount of power it produces, and much of the maintenance issues should in theory not play a major factory, as you've suggested it will run for far less time than it would in a full petrol vehicle. I'd be keen to see some figures for it.
They also sell this car in other regions as a mild hybrid, I wonder how many sales they get there and if that makes it worthwhile alone?
Fair point, I guess with the engine used so little, pretty much any unit is likely good enough and will cost peanuts to maintain/fuel.They also sell this car in other regions as a mild hybrid, I wonder how many sales they get there and if that makes it worthwhile alone?
I would also like to see the sales figures for the more traditional mild hybrid - because, other than EV making this mildly interesting, I think as a car, it's just a bit of a mess. It's a 4 door SUV but with a back seat area that is too difficult to use and too tight to fit inside - yet still takes up enough space to make the car larger than it probably needed to be.
I can't think of a person that would consider buying this, that couldn't buy a more suitable car elsewhere with a little looking around tbh.
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