Falklands free of landmines
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54894171
Didn't know so many were scattered around during the conflict that it has taken 40 years to clear and make the island safe.
Very brave people to willingly go and clear these awful devices.
Didn't know so many were scattered around during the conflict that it has taken 40 years to clear and make the island safe.
Very brave people to willingly go and clear these awful devices.
s.Cyder said:
Considering how little time the Argies held the islands for, how on earth did they manage to plant so many mines?
I was surprised on googling land mines just how many are still scattered around Europe, particularly Croatia and that region.
It sounds like a lot, but maybe, in terms of mines, its not that many. Kuwait has 5 million mines left by the Iraqis, who, unlike the Argentinian Forces, did not record where the mine fields were.I was surprised on googling land mines just how many are still scattered around Europe, particularly Croatia and that region.
Argentina had wanted to be involved in the demining operation, but the UK refused them. In 2001 and 2006, te UK and Argentinian governments worked together on the feasibiity of removing the antipersonnel mines, but in 2009, the UK decided to unilaterally remove these mines.
Because the obligation to demine is controlled through international treaties, if the UK was to accept Argentinian help on demining, this might weaken its claims on the islands, given that Argentina maintains the position at the UK is illegally occupying the islands.
What is forgotten is not all the AP mines that were laid down, were laid down by the Argentinian forces. The British forces apparently also deployed such mines.
As per Hansard:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmh...
"Mr. Key: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, pursuant to his answer of 25 July, Official Report, column 785, on land mines, when his officials first learnt that all British anti-personnel land mines had not been taken up following conflicts in the Falkland Islands and the Gulf.[11611]
Mr. Spellar: Officials in my Department have been aware since the clearance of British minefields in the Falkland Islands in August 1986 that one British anti-personnel land mine could not be located. "
http://archives.the-monitor.org/index.php/publicat...
"Most of the UK and territories currently under its administrative authority are not significantly mine-affected or UXO-affected. There is a particular problem in the Falkland/Malvinas Islands, where APMs, including remotely delivered scatterable mines, were used by British and Argentine forces in the war of 1982. The Ministry of Defense reported that “landmines were used in the Falklands by our forces during the 1982 conflict, and in its aftermath. One British anti-personnel landmine remains unaccounted for although every effort has been made to clear our devices.”[70] However, no real in-depth assessment has been made of the extent of the problem remaining, and available information on figures and locations remain based on estimates from 1986.
The official UK assessment is that there is “no reliable figure for the number of Argentine mines in the Falklands. Our best current estimate is that some 18,000 Argentine mines and similar devices of various types were laid, including some 14,000 anti-personnel landmines. About 1,400 Argentine mines were cleared following the conflict, before work was suspended after a number of serious injuries to clearance personnel.”
Remaining minefields, or areas where it is suspected that mines might be, have been marked and fenced. These areas are monitored regularly to ensure that remaining mines present no danger to civilian or military personnel on the Islands.[71]
Other estimates of the number of APMs remaining range from 14,000 to 40,000; they have resulted in twenty square kilometers of the islands being fenced off as being potentially dangerous.[72] The U.S. Government Humanitarian Demining Program lists the Falklands/Malvinas as a mine-affected territory with the quantity of mines estimated at 25,000 to 30,000"
So, if there were ~18,000 Argentinian mines, then there were possibly upto 20,000 British AP mines deployed.
"Table 7: Mines remaining in the Falklands/Malvinas
Antipersonnel mines: No.4 (Israel); SB-33 (Italy); FMK-1 (Argentina); P4B (Spain).
Antitank mines: FMK-3 (Argentina); No. 6 (Israel); M1A1 (U.S.); SB-81 (Italy); C-3-B (Spain).
Submunition: BL-755 AT and AP bomblet (UK)."
So the British mines laid were cluster munitions. It was the irst time the BL-755 had been used. However the language is sensitive; for some, a cluster munition does not constitute a mine.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/possible_cl...
Over 15,700 AP bomblets/land mines were dropped by UK forces. Most exploded, but it looks like the failure rate was upto 10%.
But curiously:
https://www.fiassociation.com/shopimages/pdfs/NL%2...
There is more than one reference to British landmines being deployed during the conflict, and aterwards as part of a defence.
Its easy to forget that in 1982, AP land mines were seen as something perfectly legitimate in the armoury.
gottans said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54894171
Didn't know so many were scattered around during the conflict that it has taken 40 years to clear and make the island safe.
Very brave people to willingly go and clear these awful devices.
Interesting. I was there in 84/85.Didn't know so many were scattered around during the conflict that it has taken 40 years to clear and make the island safe.
Very brave people to willingly go and clear these awful devices.
Back then the mines were fenced off as they couldn't be detected as they are not magnetic and the ground is soft and squidgy. Maybe modern tech has helped
One of my colleagues had been swimming on a beach at Xmas 1983....which was closed a few days later when they realised there were mines in the area. Oops!
Also...the guy in the article comes from the same very small place Garden City as my mum ..and family worked at the same place: Shotton steelworks. Funny coincidence
Iamnotkloot said:
Excellent news. Though, blinkin’ heck, it’s taken a long time. Landmines are a curse upon humanity (and cows, if you’ve seen the three legged one’s wandering around Cambodia).
War generally is a curse.the very reason landmines are problematic post-war is why they're effective during war.
MX5Biologist said:
Cyder said:
Considering how little time the Argies held the islands for, how on earth did they manage to plant so many mines?
I was surprised on googling land mines just how many are still scattered around Europe, particularly Croatia and that region.
It sounds like a lot, but maybe, in terms of mines, its not that many. Kuwait has 5 million mines left by the Iraqis, who, unlike the Argentinian Forces, did not record where the mine fields were.I was surprised on googling land mines just how many are still scattered around Europe, particularly Croatia and that region.
Argentina had wanted to be involved in the demining operation, but the UK refused them. In 2001 and 2006, te UK and Argentinian governments worked together on the feasibiity of removing the antipersonnel mines, but in 2009, the UK decided to unilaterally remove these mines.
Because the obligation to demine is controlled through international treaties, if the UK was to accept Argentinian help on demining, this might weaken its claims on the islands, given that Argentina maintains the position at the UK is illegally occupying the islands.
What is forgotten is not all the AP mines that were laid down, were laid down by the Argentinian forces. The British forces apparently also deployed such mines.
As per Hansard:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmh...
"Mr. Key: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, pursuant to his answer of 25 July, Official Report, column 785, on land mines, when his officials first learnt that all British anti-personnel land mines had not been taken up following conflicts in the Falkland Islands and the Gulf.[11611]
Mr. Spellar: Officials in my Department have been aware since the clearance of British minefields in the Falkland Islands in August 1986 that one British anti-personnel land mine could not be located. "
http://archives.the-monitor.org/index.php/publicat...
"Most of the UK and territories currently under its administrative authority are not significantly mine-affected or UXO-affected. There is a particular problem in the Falkland/Malvinas Islands, where APMs, including remotely delivered scatterable mines, were used by British and Argentine forces in the war of 1982. The Ministry of Defense reported that “landmines were used in the Falklands by our forces during the 1982 conflict, and in its aftermath. One British anti-personnel landmine remains unaccounted for although every effort has been made to clear our devices.”[70] However, no real in-depth assessment has been made of the extent of the problem remaining, and available information on figures and locations remain based on estimates from 1986.
The official UK assessment is that there is “no reliable figure for the number of Argentine mines in the Falklands. Our best current estimate is that some 18,000 Argentine mines and similar devices of various types were laid, including some 14,000 anti-personnel landmines. About 1,400 Argentine mines were cleared following the conflict, before work was suspended after a number of serious injuries to clearance personnel.”
Remaining minefields, or areas where it is suspected that mines might be, have been marked and fenced. These areas are monitored regularly to ensure that remaining mines present no danger to civilian or military personnel on the Islands.[71]
Other estimates of the number of APMs remaining range from 14,000 to 40,000; they have resulted in twenty square kilometers of the islands being fenced off as being potentially dangerous.[72] The U.S. Government Humanitarian Demining Program lists the Falklands/Malvinas as a mine-affected territory with the quantity of mines estimated at 25,000 to 30,000"
So, if there were ~18,000 Argentinian mines, then there were possibly upto 20,000 British AP mines deployed.
"Table 7: Mines remaining in the Falklands/Malvinas
Antipersonnel mines: No.4 (Israel); SB-33 (Italy); FMK-1 (Argentina); P4B (Spain).
Antitank mines: FMK-3 (Argentina); No. 6 (Israel); M1A1 (U.S.); SB-81 (Italy); C-3-B (Spain).
Submunition: BL-755 AT and AP bomblet (UK)."
So the British mines laid were cluster munitions. It was the irst time the BL-755 had been used. However the language is sensitive; for some, a cluster munition does not constitute a mine.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/possible_cl...
Over 15,700 AP bomblets/land mines were dropped by UK forces. Most exploded, but it looks like the failure rate was upto 10%.
But curiously:
https://www.fiassociation.com/shopimages/pdfs/NL%2...
There is more than one reference to British landmines being deployed during the conflict, and aterwards as part of a defence.
Its easy to forget that in 1982, AP land mines were seen as something perfectly legitimate in the armoury.
Cyder said:
MX5Biologist said:
Cyder said:
Considering how little time the Argies held the islands for, how on earth did they manage to plant so many mines?
I was surprised on googling land mines just how many are still scattered around Europe, particularly Croatia and that region.
It sounds like a lot, but maybe, in terms of mines, its not that many. Kuwait has 5 million mines left by the Iraqis, who, unlike the Argentinian Forces, did not record where the mine fields were.I was surprised on googling land mines just how many are still scattered around Europe, particularly Croatia and that region.
Argentina had wanted to be involved in the demining operation, but the UK refused them. In 2001 and 2006, te UK and Argentinian governments worked together on the feasibiity of removing the antipersonnel mines, but in 2009, the UK decided to unilaterally remove these mines.
Because the obligation to demine is controlled through international treaties, if the UK was to accept Argentinian help on demining, this might weaken its claims on the islands, given that Argentina maintains the position at the UK is illegally occupying the islands.
What is forgotten is not all the AP mines that were laid down, were laid down by the Argentinian forces. The British forces apparently also deployed such mines.
As per Hansard:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmh...
"Mr. Key: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, pursuant to his answer of 25 July, Official Report, column 785, on land mines, when his officials first learnt that all British anti-personnel land mines had not been taken up following conflicts in the Falkland Islands and the Gulf.[11611]
Mr. Spellar: Officials in my Department have been aware since the clearance of British minefields in the Falkland Islands in August 1986 that one British anti-personnel land mine could not be located. "
http://archives.the-monitor.org/index.php/publicat...
"Most of the UK and territories currently under its administrative authority are not significantly mine-affected or UXO-affected. There is a particular problem in the Falkland/Malvinas Islands, where APMs, including remotely delivered scatterable mines, were used by British and Argentine forces in the war of 1982. The Ministry of Defense reported that “landmines were used in the Falklands by our forces during the 1982 conflict, and in its aftermath. One British anti-personnel landmine remains unaccounted for although every effort has been made to clear our devices.”[70] However, no real in-depth assessment has been made of the extent of the problem remaining, and available information on figures and locations remain based on estimates from 1986.
The official UK assessment is that there is “no reliable figure for the number of Argentine mines in the Falklands. Our best current estimate is that some 18,000 Argentine mines and similar devices of various types were laid, including some 14,000 anti-personnel landmines. About 1,400 Argentine mines were cleared following the conflict, before work was suspended after a number of serious injuries to clearance personnel.”
Remaining minefields, or areas where it is suspected that mines might be, have been marked and fenced. These areas are monitored regularly to ensure that remaining mines present no danger to civilian or military personnel on the Islands.[71]
Other estimates of the number of APMs remaining range from 14,000 to 40,000; they have resulted in twenty square kilometers of the islands being fenced off as being potentially dangerous.[72] The U.S. Government Humanitarian Demining Program lists the Falklands/Malvinas as a mine-affected territory with the quantity of mines estimated at 25,000 to 30,000"
So, if there were ~18,000 Argentinian mines, then there were possibly upto 20,000 British AP mines deployed.
"Table 7: Mines remaining in the Falklands/Malvinas
Antipersonnel mines: No.4 (Israel); SB-33 (Italy); FMK-1 (Argentina); P4B (Spain).
Antitank mines: FMK-3 (Argentina); No. 6 (Israel); M1A1 (U.S.); SB-81 (Italy); C-3-B (Spain).
Submunition: BL-755 AT and AP bomblet (UK)."
So the British mines laid were cluster munitions. It was the irst time the BL-755 had been used. However the language is sensitive; for some, a cluster munition does not constitute a mine.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/possible_cl...
Over 15,700 AP bomblets/land mines were dropped by UK forces. Most exploded, but it looks like the failure rate was upto 10%.
But curiously:
https://www.fiassociation.com/shopimages/pdfs/NL%2...
There is more than one reference to British landmines being deployed during the conflict, and aterwards as part of a defence.
Its easy to forget that in 1982, AP land mines were seen as something perfectly legitimate in the armoury.
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