Alloy wheel powdercoating as a business?
Discussion
Was talking to a friend of mine last night whos thinking of setting up in a business unit doing alloy wheel powdercoating.
Whilst theres a lot of people doing it these days he thinks hes identified an area and that he can be price competitive in.
He doesnt have any direct experience in this area but is convinced that could be mitigated with training which hes prepared to pay for (and travel to do).
He'll clearly do all his due diligence and hes only at the talking about it stage.
Has anyone any experience of what his equipment requirements / cost would be?
I'm not looking to get involved but hes using me as a bit of a sounding board and i'd like to have some info to feed back.
TIA
Whilst theres a lot of people doing it these days he thinks hes identified an area and that he can be price competitive in.
He doesnt have any direct experience in this area but is convinced that could be mitigated with training which hes prepared to pay for (and travel to do).
He'll clearly do all his due diligence and hes only at the talking about it stage.
Has anyone any experience of what his equipment requirements / cost would be?
I'm not looking to get involved but hes using me as a bit of a sounding board and i'd like to have some info to feed back.
TIA
jonamv8 said:
Place in Birmingham does mine, all 4 for £200. It’s constantly busy
Yes, thats kind of the area hes seeing prices at. I'm getting a set of 18s done at the moment and its £180+VAT, so £216. Similar story - the guy is flat out (though he does other powdercoating too). Hes told me it'll be at least two weeks before he gets to them. That guy also wont take them with tyres. Must be stripped.My friends thinking of doing menu pricing. Something like say
£200 for four alloys refurbed
+£30 if they come with tyres (thus need stripped and rebuilt) - he'd likely outsource that
+£50 for priority 48hr turnaround.
The idea being that he would drive most of the business through as just the standard wheel refurb and a queuing system but facilitate people who want them quicker / cant be arsed getting them stripped / rebuilt.
Hes yet to check the price of equipment or training but hes ball parked it at £10K for equipment, £3K for training.
No idea if those costs are reasonable.
steveo3002 said:
don't know about others , but it would be a huge bonus if i can leave the 4 wheels as is and you remove /refit the tyres,i wouldn't entertain going somewhere else to get the tyres done
probably ought to look at selling new tyres too
Yeah thats what i found to be a bit of a ball ache getting mine done recently here.probably ought to look at selling new tyres too
Then the four alloys bounced around the boot of the car on the way over to him - which means i'm going to have to bring some sort of protecting for them when i pick them up.
I would much rather just left the wheels complete with him, but this guy is more of an engineering works that specialises in powdercoating so he just refuses them if they come with tyres.
It was something i'd suggested to my friend as something he should do as an option. Keeps the headline price low if someone just wants the wheels done, but would allow him to facilitate wheels coming complete.
The place i had mine done at (£380 i think it was, inc vat for 18" diamond cut blasted back and powdercoated all black) didn't have the machinery either for the tyres, but they were positioned next door to a tyre fitters - no brainer outsourcing it then.
Something else to think about, I supplied mine with knackered tyres and had new tyres delivered there from blackcircles - It meant i got the tyres fitted for 'free' as remove and rebalance was already in my quotation. Might be another angle to consider.
I dont know much about the process but i assume prep is key - having the right equipment to blast it back to bare metal. There are a couple of spokes on mine where i can see slight lumps where the original paint wasnt fully blasted back (Stupid wheels where the sides of spokes were painted black and the faces diamond cut).
Something else to think about, I supplied mine with knackered tyres and had new tyres delivered there from blackcircles - It meant i got the tyres fitted for 'free' as remove and rebalance was already in my quotation. Might be another angle to consider.
I dont know much about the process but i assume prep is key - having the right equipment to blast it back to bare metal. There are a couple of spokes on mine where i can see slight lumps where the original paint wasnt fully blasted back (Stupid wheels where the sides of spokes were painted black and the faces diamond cut).
The machinery to do the diamond cut refinishing is a lot more than 10k on it's own. That would be bank loan territory unless he has very deep pockets - I've heard figures of 70-100k mentioned when I've asked.
I'd be surprised if an oven, plus the spray kit, chem tanks, powder stock etc was around 10k but that's just my guesswork.
Have a look on the EvilGT youtube channel, two fools with cars but an episode a week or so back covered their wheels going through the process, surprisingly time consuming.
I'd be surprised if an oven, plus the spray kit, chem tanks, powder stock etc was around 10k but that's just my guesswork.
Have a look on the EvilGT youtube channel, two fools with cars but an episode a week or so back covered their wheels going through the process, surprisingly time consuming.
toastyhamster said:
The machinery to do the diamond cut refinishing is a lot more than 10k on it's own. That would be bank loan territory unless he has very deep pockets - I've heard figures of 70-100k mentioned when I've asked.
I'd be surprised if an oven, plus the spray kit, chem tanks, powder stock etc was around 10k but that's just my guesswork.
Have a look on the EvilGT youtube channel, two fools with cars but an episode a week or so back covered their wheels going through the process, surprisingly time consuming.
I dont think he was thinking of getting in to diamond cutting. Maybe thats something he could consider down the line if he does it and if it takes off.I'd be surprised if an oven, plus the spray kit, chem tanks, powder stock etc was around 10k but that's just my guesswork.
Have a look on the EvilGT youtube channel, two fools with cars but an episode a week or so back covered their wheels going through the process, surprisingly time consuming.
I'll have a look at the youtube channel and pass it on to him, cheers.
If he’s doing wheel powdercoating surely it makes sense to branch out into general stuff. It seems odd to limit himself to one product.
I know a local guy who does wheels but also has a good reputation for motorbike parts too.
As long as you have big enough equipment to cope it seems a no brainier.
I'd think you need more than £10k. Wheels are baked to get the coating off so you need a special oven and to know your stuff. Bake the wrong wheel and it'll fail spectacularly (spokes will crack and hub fall out) so you'll need some good insurance too.
Don't bother setting up anywhere near Bradford as it's £1 per inch there for solid colours + VAT.
Don't bother setting up anywhere near Bradford as it's £1 per inch there for solid colours + VAT.
steveo3002 said:
don't know about others , but it would be a huge bonus if i can leave the 4 wheels as is and you remove /refit the tyres,i wouldn't entertain going somewhere else to get the tyres done
probably ought to look at selling new tyres too
Place in Birmingham that does mine for 200 is inc vat and inc tyre removal and re applicationprobably ought to look at selling new tyres too
There's very much a demand for it, guy I know was considering diamond cut refurbs but he was already a very experienced paint sprayer & bodyman - he said the numbers were awesome but didn't go ahead for logistical reasons.
Lots of powder coating outfits out there, many do it as an add on to other metal fabrication - like in that link - and whilst they really know their stuff, it depends what they're set up to prep.
For it to work as a decent business, you'd need to get the volume sorted early on. Joe Public are often unreasonable in expectations and take a lot of money to market to. Volume trade work is likely where the good bread & butter is - does your mate have any existing trade connections or would he be starting from cold?
Lots of powder coating outfits out there, many do it as an add on to other metal fabrication - like in that link - and whilst they really know their stuff, it depends what they're set up to prep.
For it to work as a decent business, you'd need to get the volume sorted early on. Joe Public are often unreasonable in expectations and take a lot of money to market to. Volume trade work is likely where the good bread & butter is - does your mate have any existing trade connections or would he be starting from cold?
Place by where I work does drop your car off there at 0800 in the morning, they'll remove wheels, remove tyres, blast, powder, fit tyres and fit to car by 1900 the same day for £200 upto 18", £220 19" and £250 over.
I've used them as have people I've recommended at work, their work is brilliant, they'll work late to make sure get done in a day and is a 3 man band.
Absolutely always busy, so much so he's on about opening another 2 branches along the south coast. Outstanding work by them and for young lads they've made it very successful
I've used them as have people I've recommended at work, their work is brilliant, they'll work late to make sure get done in a day and is a 3 man band.
Absolutely always busy, so much so he's on about opening another 2 branches along the south coast. Outstanding work by them and for young lads they've made it very successful
toastyhamster said:
The machinery to do the diamond cut refinishing is a lot more than 10k on it's own.
There was a thread on here a year or two back where someone had bought such a machine and was having trouble with it, wasn't there? He'd bought it direct from the Far East to reduce costs and was having support problems, if I recall correctly. And I think it got sorted in the end.GT89 said:
Place by where I work does drop your car off there at 0800 in the morning, they'll remove wheels, remove tyres, blast, powder, fit tyres and fit to car by 1900 the same day for £200 upto 18", £220 19" and £250 over.
I've used them as have people I've recommended at work, their work is brilliant, they'll work late to make sure get done in a day and is a 3 man band.
Absolutely always busy, so much so he's on about opening another 2 branches along the south coast. Outstanding work by them and for young lads they've made it very successful
Bloody hell. Thats good going and a great price.I've used them as have people I've recommended at work, their work is brilliant, they'll work late to make sure get done in a day and is a 3 man band.
Absolutely always busy, so much so he's on about opening another 2 branches along the south coast. Outstanding work by them and for young lads they've made it very successful
Very competitive industry. A friend and I looked a year ago and decided not to pursue after research.
30k + for diamond cutting machine, most of the wheels are diamond cut these days so you would be mad to not be doing it from the off, also a lot of the money is made in "cut & clear" too, as essentially it takes 15 minutes to diamond cut a wheel, then a coat of lacquer and out the door. Average charge is 70+ per wheel. Some can do it manually to similar effect but that involves a lot of time sanding.
Powder coating guns/ovens/acid wash/sand blasting/hydro blaster is time consuming, labour intensive and dirty work. If I recall, 20k for a small start up type concession. Minimum is around 3 hours to dip the wheels, then sanding/filing/filling any curbing, powder coat/bake x3/4.
3-6k for tyre machines, racking, jacks etc.
It's a volume game. The place in Birmingham is well known, super cheap because they are FLAT OUT. Unless you are doing very high volume numbers, it is a difficult game to get into and make money. Remember at the point your doing volume, your equipment costs then quadruple because you need massive waterfall ovens, more dips, more guns, more people. We were quoted MINIMUM 50k to get up and running with diamond cut and you could spend 150K + on an entry level volume outfit.
Another thing to note is trade work is difficult to come by, when we were researching we found most dealerships favoured mobile smart repair guys who work on site for approx 35 per wheel or a fixed price per car. They'll also do any other paint work whilst they're there. As a static business you have no hope of competing, due to overheads.
In relation to the above, some people can't be bothered to go for the full works, so will happily pay half the price for a smart repair guy in a van to come and touch up the wheel. The service offered to most people is inconvenient to have there car taken away for a few days. So then the static business needs to offer loan cars, or loan wheels and potentially collection and delivery services to compete.
By us, there was also 4 well established large operations going already within 15 miles that we hadn't even heard about until we started looking. Not to mention 10 or so smart technicians. The place in Birmingham is also used by garages in our local due to there pricing, albeit 30 miles away. I don't think they produce the most immaculate work but it's done well for the price charged.
Hope this hasn't killed the dream, if you've got a well established trade customer base, or have retail customers from a garage/bodyshop ready to go then you will have a stronger chance of doing it as an add on. There are lots of franchises offering this type of a business as a start-up which is something to be weary of but is useful to get info about equipment and how the operation works.
Best of luck.
30k + for diamond cutting machine, most of the wheels are diamond cut these days so you would be mad to not be doing it from the off, also a lot of the money is made in "cut & clear" too, as essentially it takes 15 minutes to diamond cut a wheel, then a coat of lacquer and out the door. Average charge is 70+ per wheel. Some can do it manually to similar effect but that involves a lot of time sanding.
Powder coating guns/ovens/acid wash/sand blasting/hydro blaster is time consuming, labour intensive and dirty work. If I recall, 20k for a small start up type concession. Minimum is around 3 hours to dip the wheels, then sanding/filing/filling any curbing, powder coat/bake x3/4.
3-6k for tyre machines, racking, jacks etc.
It's a volume game. The place in Birmingham is well known, super cheap because they are FLAT OUT. Unless you are doing very high volume numbers, it is a difficult game to get into and make money. Remember at the point your doing volume, your equipment costs then quadruple because you need massive waterfall ovens, more dips, more guns, more people. We were quoted MINIMUM 50k to get up and running with diamond cut and you could spend 150K + on an entry level volume outfit.
Another thing to note is trade work is difficult to come by, when we were researching we found most dealerships favoured mobile smart repair guys who work on site for approx 35 per wheel or a fixed price per car. They'll also do any other paint work whilst they're there. As a static business you have no hope of competing, due to overheads.
In relation to the above, some people can't be bothered to go for the full works, so will happily pay half the price for a smart repair guy in a van to come and touch up the wheel. The service offered to most people is inconvenient to have there car taken away for a few days. So then the static business needs to offer loan cars, or loan wheels and potentially collection and delivery services to compete.
By us, there was also 4 well established large operations going already within 15 miles that we hadn't even heard about until we started looking. Not to mention 10 or so smart technicians. The place in Birmingham is also used by garages in our local due to there pricing, albeit 30 miles away. I don't think they produce the most immaculate work but it's done well for the price charged.
Hope this hasn't killed the dream, if you've got a well established trade customer base, or have retail customers from a garage/bodyshop ready to go then you will have a stronger chance of doing it as an add on. There are lots of franchises offering this type of a business as a start-up which is something to be weary of but is useful to get info about equipment and how the operation works.
Best of luck.
Edited by Classy6 on Friday 20th November 16:24
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