GDPR

[matt.caine77]

So I've had a bit of time off sick lately (no details at this time, sorry - just call it mental health). Approx two weeks, some of which I used up holiday entitlement for and some SSP (no sick pay involved). I made the mistake of going back for one day and getting sent home again for the same reason.

During my sick-note period I was hospitalised for the same mental health issue so I just went back to work on the correct day according to my sick-note.

Apparently this is not allowed, you then need a "fit" note which I didn't have, so sent home again.

The story goes on but you get the gist I'm sure.

Fast forward to today and I got a call from Occupational Health, who apparently are not part of the company I work for and not part of our health scheme. She seemed slightly aghast that my line manager had not contacted me regarding this, that "it should not be a surprise" and she was "going to email xxx about his duty to keep me in the loop". Radio silence on all sides since then, aside from me contacting HR at HQ directly fora copy of my contract, which my boss conveniently forgot to give me.

Is this some kind of breach of the GDPR? This third party company had my name and number and evidently details about my sick record and even my hospital discharge notes.

[CzechItOut]

Unlikely. Your company will have a policy that says after x number of days sick or time off for y reason, you'll be referred to the company's occupational health provider. Your contract will also state that your employer can share your information with third parties for legitimate business reasons such as payroll, health insurance, occupational health etc.

You can of course pursue it and ask to see said policy, contract clause and in particular the justification for the OH company having your hospital notes - but what do you stand to gain from this?

[matt.caine77]

CzechItOut said:

Unlikely. Your company will have a policy that says after x number of days sick or time off for y reason, you'll be referred to the company's occupational health provider. Your contract will also state that your employer can share your information with third parties for legitimate business reasons such as payroll, health insurance, occupational health etc.

You can of course pursue it and ask to see said policy, contract clause and in particular the justification for the OH company having your hospital notes - but what do you stand to gain from this?

Ok, thanks. I've heard so much about GDPR recently I might need a tinfoil hat. My contract makes no mention of data sharing, but does refer to the company handbook which I think I have upstairs and will be my next port of call.

As to what I stand to gain, that would be time to find alternative employment and not lose the rather nice accomodation I'm in presently. I am part of a small team of 4, but it is the companies choice to send me home when they are well aware that given time to do some breathing exercises I am fine again.

Edit - Nothing at all in my contract about the above so I have asked for a copy of the Absence Management Policy.

Edited by matt.caine77 on Wednesday 18th November 16:59

[21TonyK]

The whole idea of sick notes was replaced with self certification and the "Med3" which is a fit note...

https://strandmedical.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/201...

So basically what you did was right, the same as I did when my Med3 expired and was reviewed by my consultant.

Got straight onto work who immediately referred me to occ health. Only difference being that work then asked me to get a new Med3 saying I couldn't work until occ health agreed. GP declined their request (unsuprisingly!!) so now waiting to hear from work again and occ health which may take a couple more weeks!

As for GDPR/sharing of info, as already said by others thats down to the fine print but I know I have to give permission for them to request info from my GP and I would not expect any clinical professional to do so without your consent.

[matt.caine77]

21TonyK said:

The whole idea of sick notes was replaced with self certification and the "Med3" which is a fit note...

https://strandmedical.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/201...

So basically what you did was right, the same as I did when my Med3 expired and was reviewed by my consultant.

Got straight onto work who immediately referred me to occ health. Only difference being that work then asked me to get a new Med3 saying I couldn't work until occ health agreed. GP declined their request (unsuprisingly!!) so now waiting to hear from work again and occ health which may take a couple more weeks!

As for GDPR/sharing of info, as already said by others thats down to the fine print but I know I have to give permission for them to request info from my GP and I would not expect any clinical professional to do so without your consent.

Thank you. It's nearly 100 pages but I haven't found any obvious references to sharing of data so far, I've read all the glossy bits about how much they help the workers... It's like they try to grind you down with wall after wall. I think tomorrow I shall just ask HR to tell me why my line manager referred me to OH and under what parts of my contract were my medical records and personal details passed on.

My time with this company is over, but I'm not just going to walk away.

[matt.caine77]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Bluntly put but a good question.

Vindictiveness would probably be an honest answer. I don't really want my medical notes being emailed to all and sundry.

Here's a snippet - the actual document includes my full name and address, NHS number, five pages of personal information including full bloods, a clinical summary ("he suddenly stopped 10 days ago, he was brought to the hospital by police after being found running around the street hallucinating, with tremors and confused")

All he had to do was phone me and ask if I minded being referred. Not really the kind of info I want being handed to random companies especially when I've already referred myself to various other groups.

I don't think my employer should be handing this info to other companies without my permission, especially since I gave the info to them in good faith.

[21TonyK]

How did your employer get hold of the information in the first place?

[matt.caine77]

21TonyK said:

How did your employer get hold of the information in the first place?

They had my personal details the whole time. OH said I was referred by my line manager and she was NOT happy that I hadn't been consulted or made aware.

The fact I spent a couple of days in hospital while I was signed off was my bad, I didn't really think it was relevant as I wasn't "fit" to be at work anyway! So I mentioned it, then got told that being hospitalised cancelled my "fit note" saying I'd be off till a certain date and I don't need to be seen again.

The director asked for hospital discharge notes, now you mention it, it feels like I've walked into a trap. But the notes do back up that I was definitely not fit for work operating heavy machinery when I can't always tell what's real and what's not.

I think the ball is now back in their court now.

[21TonyK]

So sounds like you provided your employer with your notes?

I have (today) sent a copy of my latest diagnosis and meds to the HR manager, if she wants to pass that on to occ. H then I have no problem with that but I understand you may.

I work on the basis if I furbish my employer with information then they may share it with those who need it.

(ie. not put it in a public area of the network with 140+ staff to view... but I'll delete it myself because my boss wouldn't even realise )

[matt.caine77]

21TonyK said:

So sounds like you provided your employer with your notes?

I have (today) sent a copy of my latest diagnosis and meds to the HR manager, if she wants to pass that on to occ. H then I have no problem with that but I understand you may.

I work on the basis if I furbish my employer with information then they may share it with those who need it.

(ie. not put it in a public area of the network with 140+ staff to view... but I'll delete it myself because my boss wouldn't even realise )

It's evidently not as simple as I thought.

I've always believed if I give personal info to a body, they would need my permission to share it.

This has been reinforced in the last few weeks while my condition has deteriorated, and I've been asked permission to share my personal info with third parties - even having to give permission for companies / agencies to discuss matters with my family on my behalf.

This has been reinforced by today's call from OH when she found out I was not aware of her involvement, she virtually terminated the call in order to bounce it back at my employer, just taking enough info to confirm my ID, that I was prepared to continue the call after my employer clarified their position.

Perhaps it's more moral than legal. Interesting though as I have nothing to hide.

It seems like some people are of the opinion that medical records can just be handed out to anybody who'd like a flip through...

[Jasandjules]

Occupational Health tends to be considered "part" of the company for the purposes of dealing with employee health...

It is correct they should have informed you that there will be a referral to OH however I do also suspect (hope) that your company sickness/absence policy will note that after X days of absence the company will or reserves the right to refer you to OH.

[matt.caine77]

Thank you.

I have finally found a way to cut & paste from the PDF.

work said:

Absence of eight consecutive calendar days or more:-
If your absence extends beyond seven consecutive calendar days, you must submit to your
manager, a Statement of Fitness for Work covering your absence from the eighth day. This
statement must be obtained from your Doctor and should be forwarded to your manager as soon
as possible after the eighth day of your absence.

This hasn't happened until now, never been off for 3 days.

work said:

In the event of discernible patterns, common days of absence, reasons for your absence or if your
intermittent absences reach a level of concern, your manager will discuss these with you.

This has happened, and he has shown a lack of understanding (in my opinion).

work said:

Following discussion with you and depending on the level of absence, your Manager will decide
if the matter needs to be taken formally or not i.e. whether to issue you with an Attendance Improvement Memo (AIM) or whether there is reason to instigate the formal Disciplinary or Performance procedure.

Neither has happened.

work said:

If you are continually absent from work, we may also refer you to an Occupational Health
Professional for assessment and to discuss your absence from work to determine if there is
anything you or the Company can do to address any further absenteeism from work.

I have had a call from Occupational Health who was quite taken aback when I told her it was the first I'd heard of it. She stated outright that I should have been involved and should have been expecting the call. She basically ended the call saying she would be contacting my employer to remind them that I should be kept informed. I don't believe that one quick sentence in the Absence Management Policy really covers the fact that my personal and medical records would be passed on to a third company.

In my opinion I have upheld my side of the contract - always turned up, prepared to do my work but on a few occasions been unable to do so.

My employer has turned what could have been a short break doing breathing exercises or CBT into days being sent home. On the last occasion I was sent home because I had an overnight stay in hospital during my "sick note" time. Based on this, rather than issue a "fit note" my GP has issued a much longer sick note - ten weeks I believe.

work said:

We consider ‘short term’ absence to be in excess of 15 consecutive working days.

In such circumstances, your Manager and/or a member of the HR Department will contact you
on a regular basis to discuss the nature of your absence and to consider a support plan with the
aim of facilitating your return to work at the earliest possible point.

My longest period of absence has been a few days, maybe 4 occasions - usually covered by holiday so as not to impact the sick record. The longest (current) period has been caused by the employer demanding a "fit" note - my GP declined and said to take new medication until February.

Sorry for the waffle, the new meds I've been prescribed knock me for six... There's a whole extra section for "long term" sick leave and OH only just really gets a look in there - "We may also require you to attend or re-attend an Occupational Health Professional for a medical
examination where your condition can again be assessed in terms of your work and what we can
do to support you in returning to work."

TL:DR - I'm getting calls out of the blue from Occupational Health, with no communication from my employer. This third party company has my personal details and at least some of my medical records. I don't think I signed up to this, but HR have sent a copy of my contract so I'll be checking.

[Drumroll]

Turn this around another way, would you want your medical condition and your fitness to carry on in your role, be based on a nonmedical person's assessment?

When I was at work I had an employee decide he didn't want to consent to any "3rd party" assessments. So all I could do was suspend him, as I quite rightly couldn't make a "medical" decision on if someone was competent to carry on in their role.

[matt.caine77]

Drumroll said:

Turn this around another way, would you want your medical condition and your fitness to carry on in your role, be based on a nonmedical person's assessment?

When I was at work I had an employee decide he didn't want to consent to any "3rd party" assessments. So all I could do was suspend him, as I quite rightly couldn't make a "medical" decision on if someone was competent to carry on in their role.

A very good point. No, my job can be dangerous so I'd welcome a professional viewpoint. This is why I told the Occupational Health woman I was happy to go ahead, but she'd already decided she was in a grey area (I presume). Similar phone assessment's I've made with other agencies have lasted 45 minutes, this one was less than ten mins.

The decision has already been made on a few occasions - by non-medical people - to send me home without pay. And finally on a technicality.

The whole period is covered by "fit" notes stating that I'm not fit for work.

[xx99xx]

I'm not sure how OH would have your hospital discharge notes. The hospital wouldn't proactively send them to OH so OH must have asked for them. So perhaps a GP with OH requested them and said you were under their care. I'm not sure on the data protection side of medical notes passed between Dr's.

Also, where I work, the employee has to give permission to line manager before making a referral to OH. Not sure if that's a legal thing or just a local decision.

[matt.caine77]

xx99xx said:

I'm not sure how OH would have your hospital discharge notes. The hospital wouldn't proactively send them to OH so OH must have asked for them. So perhaps a GP with OH requested them and said you were under their care. I'm not sure on the data protection side of medical notes passed between Dr's.

Also, where I work, the employee has to give permission to line manager before making a referral to OH. Not sure if that's a legal thing or just a local decision.

My Line Managers boss (a director) asked for the discharge notes. I don't know if I was obliged to provide them but I did scan a copy over to my manager just in good faith.

I received no further communication on the matter until the call from this Occupational Health person. When I asked if she worked for my employer, or our health cover scheme she said neither, an independent company.

She also implied that your last comment is true, and said she would be contacting my manager back regarding involving the employee in the referral.