Australian SAS - war criminals

[PeteinSQ]

In a report published today the Australian SAS has been found to have been involved in the murder of 39 Afghan civilians.

25 perpetrators have been identified by the report and some of them still serve with the ADF.

Hopefully they get prosecuted and the judge throws away the key.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/no...
https://news.sky.com/story/australian-special-forc...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-5499658...

[Derek Smith]

I had a cousin, a lay Methodist preacher, who joined the Met in the early 60s. He told me of some of his experiences with Challenor, a detective sergeant, decorated, at West End Central.

The bloke ‘fitted up’, ie put condemning evidence into the hands of people he arrested. In folklore, it was half bricks, but it went deeper than that. It had gone on for years.

The terrible thing about it, from my cousin’s point of view, was that everyone around him became infected. That’s uniformed officers, CID, command teams, lawyers, magistrates, stipendiaries and judges. If anyone, especially a probationer PC, wanted out, then whom could they go to?

The thing was that Challenor was mentally ill. He’d cracked, and for reasons which became clear later. Yet those who would not have considered fitting up anyone innocent were drawn into the mire. Most others kept their heads down and carried on as normal, a form of corruption.

Even when the evidence was clear, that a mentally unstable officer had been allowed to convict innocent people due to the connivance of everyone down the line, little was done to rectify the matter. A Police Act was the result which, in essence, did little.

Looking back, it’s remarkable that such a thing was allowed to continue with so many knowing about it. Yet it happened, and it happened again in similar disciplined professions.

If what the enquiry concluded was true – and experience has convinced me that such enquiries should be treated with care – then what must be established is why it went on. But they won’t. They’ll punish and make out they’ve changed everything.

It’s difficult to believe, I assume, for mostthat normal people would do such things to other people. Yet, if the enquiry is correct, they did.

[anonymous-user]

[mrporsche]

I do think the should be prosecuted in accordance with military process, not the national courts.

If there was a problem with the culture in the military then this goes higher than the rank and file soldiers, they shouldn’t be penalised overly harshly for a failures higher up the chain.

[PeteinSQ]

mrporsche said:

I do think the should be prosecuted in accordance with military process, not the national courts.

If there was a problem with the culture in the military then this goes higher than the rank and file soldiers, they shouldn’t be penalised overly harshly for a failures higher up the chain.

In cold blood they murdered civilians. They deserve no less than life in prison.

[dukeboy749r]

PeteinSQ said:

mrporsche said:

I do think the should be prosecuted in accordance with military process, not the national courts.

If there was a problem with the culture in the military then this goes higher than the rank and file soldiers, they shouldn’t be penalised overly harshly for a failures higher up the chain.

In cold blood they murdered civilians. They deserve no less than life in prison.

We hear you Pete.

You were there?

They were completely innocent? I do not know, I was not there. For clarity, I am just asking. If they were, (innocent), I am sure justice will prevail.

Keep your hair on in the meantime.

[Chicken Chaser]

Jasey_ said:

From the sky link

The report also found that none of the killings took place during "the heat of battle", and that all of the victims were found to be non-combatants, or were no longer combatants

Wtf does no longer combatants mean ?

Surrendered?

[powerstroke]

PeteinSQ said:

In a report published today the Australian SAS has been found to have been involved in the murder of 39 Afghan civilians.

25 perpetrators have been identified by the report and some of them still serve with the ADF.

Hopefully they get prosecuted and the judge throws away the key.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/no...
https://news.sky.com/story/australian-special-forc...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-5499658...

Yes and next time there are problems in some sthole we could send you??

[Taylor James]

I'm happy to wait for more details before I judge. I'd hope for the same if I was accused of something.

[ATG]

powerstroke said:

Yes and next time there are problems in some sthole we could send you??

We could threaten to parachute you behind their lines to help them with their strategic thinking.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

powerstroke said:

Yes and next time there are problems in some sthole we could send you??

Not sure that was needed.

I've worked with a few ex UKSF and I'm 99% sure that those I worked with would agree with his point.

The only thing to be gained by killing civilians is turning non-combatants into combatants. This is not a new lesson.

Sadly there appear to be shades of My Lai here.

I've been following this story for a while because it's been brewing for a number of years. There appears to be some significant systemic failures within Aus SF at the moment. It's incredibly rare that someone a bit murdery passes selection so there is clearly something going on with deployment tempo and management of stress / ptsd.

[PeteinSQ]

powerstroke said:

Yes and next time there are problems in some sthole we could send you??

I can't say I'm even a little bit surprised by this response on here.

Read the report, see what the officers in charge of the report have said. This isn't a case of people in the heat of battle doing not great but vaguely understandable things. This is a case of people carrying out cold blooded murder of civilians and prisoners.

Can I ask what you think of the activities of the einsatzgroups in Russia in WW2 or the Malmedy massacre? All understandable because it was in the middle of a war or actually evil war crimes.

It genuinely sickens me the way that some are able to excuse literally any behaviour of someone in uniform. Frankly if I was a normal soldier who had been to Afghanistan this sort of thing would really annoy me as it dishonours the entire endeavour and the majority of troops who went will have done absolutely nothing like this.

Edited by PeteinSQ on Thursday 19th November 11:01

[PeteinSQ]

dukeboy749r said:

We hear you Pete.

You were there?

They were completely innocent? I do not know, I was not there. For clarity, I am just asking. If they were, (innocent), I am sure justice will prevail.

Keep your hair on in the meantime.

I didn't write the report, and yes they'll have to have an investigation, innocent until proven guilty etc.

[vaud]

PeteinSQ said:

Hopefully they get prosecuted and the judge throws away the key.

I hope they get investigated, maybe sent for trial if there was sufficient proof. Hopefully their guilt is not presupposed and they should not be jailed without a trial.

[PeteinSQ]

vaud said:

I hope they get investigated, maybe sent for trial if there was sufficient proof. Hopefully their guilt is not presupposed and they should not be jailed without a trial.

I do of course completely agree with this.

[Biggy Stardust]

PeteinSQ said:

In cold blood they murdered civilians. They deserve no less than life in prison.

Don't even bother with a fair trial- that's for innocent people. Mob justice, that's what we need!

[PeteinSQ]

Biggy Stardust said:

Don't even bother with a fair trial- that's for innocent people. Mob justice, that's what we need!

Assuming your eyes aren't painted and you're educated well enough to read perhaps you'd like to refer to the post above yours.

Of course there should be a fair trial.

[vaud]

PeteinSQ said:

Assuming your eyes aren't painted and you're educated well enough to read perhaps you'd like to refer to the post above yours.

Of course there should be a fair trial.

I think most people went by your opening post.

[captain_cynic]

Jasey_ said:

From the sky link

The report also found that none of the killings took place during "the heat of battle", and that all of the victims were found to be non-combatants, or were no longer combatants

Wtf does no longer combatants mean ?

Fairly self explanatory... It means they were prisoners, restrained and non threatening

The Australian military does not casually aledge war crimes, especially against its own, so it is more than likely that there is sufficient evidence.

They'll get their day in court, but if the ADF is charging some of its top soldiers, chances are there is some substance to it.

Sadly this kind of extremism isn't new amongst special operators and cultural standards have been slipping for some time and not just in Australia. The ADF will want to nip this in the bud and show they can manage their own house before a royal commission is established.

[ABZ RS6]

Jasey_ said:

From the sky link

Wtf does no longer combatants mean ?

Dead.