Discussion
Someone who works for me came to me last week saying they were struggling to survive on their pay. Pre covid they were taking home £2k a month and all was rosy. Except they were moaning constantly about the number of hours a week they were working. I've just checked and it averaged just under 48 hours over five days out of seven (Sunday and Monday off). Since lockdown they have been paid for their contracted 35 hours a week even when they have only been working perhaps 30. Take home is running around £1600 now. Yesterday they handed their notice in, to go and work self employed for Amazon as a delivery driver. He reckons he will work six days a week and get £780 (£130/day) out of which he has to pay for his van - £200 a week and his fuel, but he will be reimbursed 19p/mile for his delivery mileage for Amazon. On top of this, he is paying £430 a month for his car, which currently I pay as it's a taxi. He's going to keep it as a private car.
I like the guy, and here's the dilemma, should I tell him he will be killing himself working huge hours and be worse off? Or just wait until he asks for his old job back?
TL:DR
Should I tell someone they are making a big mistake in a life choice that will affect them physically, mentally and financially?
I like the guy, and here's the dilemma, should I tell him he will be killing himself working huge hours and be worse off? Or just wait until he asks for his old job back?
TL:DR
Should I tell someone they are making a big mistake in a life choice that will affect them physically, mentally and financially?
Grass is always greener until they actually get there.
He will soon tire of the deadlines and massive delivery workloads from Amazon and also the utter f
kwittery of the general public and their inability to number or signpost their own home and yet still expect delivery drivers to find them.
Don't have them back when they come back unless you get them on a better contract.
He will soon tire of the deadlines and massive delivery workloads from Amazon and also the utter f
kwittery of the general public and their inability to number or signpost their own home and yet still expect delivery drivers to find them.Don't have them back when they come back unless you get them on a better contract.
Tyre Smoke said:
Someone who works for me came to me last week saying they were struggling to survive on their pay. Pre covid they were taking home £2k a month and all was rosy. Except they were moaning constantly about the number of hours a week they were working. I've just checked and it averaged just under 48 hours over five days out of seven (Sunday and Monday off). Since lockdown they have been paid for their contracted 35 hours a week even when they have only been working perhaps 30. Take home is running around £1600 now. Yesterday they handed their notice in, to go and work self employed for Amazon as a delivery driver. He reckons he will work six days a week and get £780 (£130/day) out of which he has to pay for his van - £200 a week and his fuel, but he will be reimbursed 19p/mile for his delivery mileage for Amazon. On top of this, he is paying £430 a month for his car, which currently I pay as it's a taxi. He's going to keep it as a private car.
I like the guy, and here's the dilemma, should I tell him he will be killing himself working huge hours and be worse off? Or just wait until he asks for his old job back?
TL:DR
Should I tell someone they are making a big mistake in a life choice that will affect them physically, mentally and financially?
To be clearI like the guy, and here's the dilemma, should I tell him he will be killing himself working huge hours and be worse off? Or just wait until he asks for his old job back?
TL:DR
Should I tell someone they are making a big mistake in a life choice that will affect them physically, mentally and financially?
He earns £1600 a month now
He is going to work for Amazon for £780 a week, which is really £580 per week because he has to pay for his van.
So he's really getting £2513 a month.
On top of this, you pay the £430 a month for his car, which he won't get at Amazon
So he's going from £1600 a month to £2083 a month.
I see this a lot where I am. It's surprising how many people will up sticks and move on for an extra 10p an hour, forgetting that they have to work evenings/weekends/nights when they don't at our place.
If you like the bloke and you get on with him, all you can do is advise. If he doesn't listen then let him make his mistakes. You're not his Dad.
As usual I think his head has been turned by the headline £130/day. Forgetting the huge pressure and time constraints he will be under.
I feel sorry for the guy and have said that if there is any extra going here at all (before his notice, obviously) he could have it.
I know it's his choice and all that, but I just feel I should tell him he will be working 2.5 days just to fund his car and van.
I feel sorry for the guy and have said that if there is any extra going here at all (before his notice, obviously) he could have it.
I know it's his choice and all that, but I just feel I should tell him he will be working 2.5 days just to fund his car and van.
Tyre Smoke said:
I just feel I should tell him he will be working 2.5 days just to fund his car and van.
In fairness, that's not unusual. A man on the street earns, say, £30k per year with a personal Ford Focus on the drip at £250 per month.
He's taking home 2 grand a month so he's also working 2.5 days every month just to fund his car.
It depends - what do you want to achieve and what sort of relationship do you have? Do you want to help them by giving more hours? or is it purely a 'told you so' opportunity.
Also, it might not be completely obvious what their motivation is - i.e. they say it is financial (which will be a part of it) but maybe they want to be busy more than 30 hours a week and feel like they are doing something about the situation which is currently out of their control.
I would say that just telling someone they are wrong usually just ends up with them being doubly annoyed.
Without knowing more, I would think you might want to ask a few helpful questions - i.e. are you sure that you'll end up with more money in your pocket this way? or how much per hour does this work out at after all of the costs? etc.
Also, it might not be completely obvious what their motivation is - i.e. they say it is financial (which will be a part of it) but maybe they want to be busy more than 30 hours a week and feel like they are doing something about the situation which is currently out of their control.
I would say that just telling someone they are wrong usually just ends up with them being doubly annoyed.
Without knowing more, I would think you might want to ask a few helpful questions - i.e. are you sure that you'll end up with more money in your pocket this way? or how much per hour does this work out at after all of the costs? etc.
Drezza said:
Why do you think he'll be killing himself working? My mate did some seasonal Amazon delivery driving, got paid loads and loved it...
Ahh, yes. There's different things. Regular drivers are paid differently I understand. The casual 'do it when you like' is paid differently. They are given the Pr8me stuff and sameday stuff, usually 10/15 parcels and paid an hourly rate up to £15/hr but it's not regular work. I agree, that is great pay. Flex or something, I think it's called.Muzzer79 said:
Tyre Smoke said:
I just feel I should tell him he will be working 2.5 days just to fund his car and van.
In fairness, that's not unusual. A man on the street earns, say, £30k per year with a personal Ford Focus on the drip at £250 per month.
He's taking home 2 grand a month so he's also working 2.5 days every month just to fund his car.
fat80b said:
It depends - what do you want to achieve and what sort of relationship do you have? Do you want to help them by giving more hours? or is it purely a 'told you so' opportunity.
Also, it might not be completely obvious what their motivation is - i.e. they say it is financial (which will be a part of it) but maybe they want to be busy more than 30 hours a week and feel like they are doing something about the situation which is currently out of their control.
I would say that just telling someone they are wrong usually just ends up with them being doubly annoyed.
Without knowing more, I would think you might want to ask a few helpful questions - i.e. are you sure that you'll end up with more money in your pocket this way? or how much per hour does this work out at after all of the costs? etc.
This is all valid. Last week I offered him an extra 8-10 hours working OT on his Mondays off. Also, it might not be completely obvious what their motivation is - i.e. they say it is financial (which will be a part of it) but maybe they want to be busy more than 30 hours a week and feel like they are doing something about the situation which is currently out of their control.
I would say that just telling someone they are wrong usually just ends up with them being doubly annoyed.
Without knowing more, I would think you might want to ask a few helpful questions - i.e. are you sure that you'll end up with more money in your pocket this way? or how much per hour does this work out at after all of the costs? etc.
What I feel i ought to point out is he will be working 20 hours more per week, for £100. A lot more pressure, no sick or holiday pay or pension.
But as others have said, I'm not his dad, and I have made it clear the door is open. For me, it has worked out well, I'm £430 a month better off not paying for a car I don't need, and he's off my payroll when things are a bit uncertain. That said, I would have him back because he knows what he's doing and is reliable. But he can keep the car, I don't need it even if he comes back.
Eta: I'm trying to be a good employer, I am not and don't want to be an ass about this.
Edited by Tyre Smoke on Thursday 19th November 16:39
Muzzer79 said:
To be clear
He earns £1600 a month now
He is going to work for Amazon for £780 a week, which is really £580 per week because he has to pay for his van.
So he's really getting £2513 a month.
On top of this, you pay the £430 a month for his car, which he won't get at Amazon
So he's going from £1600 a month to £2083 a month.
I see this a lot where I am. It's surprising how many people will up sticks and move on for an extra 10p an hour, forgetting that they have to work evenings/weekends/nights when they don't at our place.
If you like the bloke and you get on with him, all you can do is advise. If he doesn't listen then let him make his mistakes. You're not his Dad.
Unless I've misread it, he's taking home 1600 per month now. The Amazon wage is being quoted gross...He earns £1600 a month now
He is going to work for Amazon for £780 a week, which is really £580 per week because he has to pay for his van.
So he's really getting £2513 a month.
On top of this, you pay the £430 a month for his car, which he won't get at Amazon
So he's going from £1600 a month to £2083 a month.
I see this a lot where I am. It's surprising how many people will up sticks and move on for an extra 10p an hour, forgetting that they have to work evenings/weekends/nights when they don't at our place.
If you like the bloke and you get on with him, all you can do is advise. If he doesn't listen then let him make his mistakes. You're not his Dad.
Tyre Smoke said:
catman said:
Unless I've misread it, he's taking home 1600 per month now. The Amazon wage is being quoted gross...
Correct. Plus he enjoys 28 days paid leave, a pension, etc. Because he's employed. Amazon is self employed. He’ll certainly be earning every penny of his pay with Amazon. They can end up doing shocking hours to meet their delivery targets.
To be honest I don't know.
He was a self employed taxi driver for a number of years and got himself into a financial mess 18 months ago. He came to me looking for a job. I gave him a contract and agreed to pay him for the finance on his car. I insured, taxed, maintained and fuelled it while he worked for me. But I left the finance agreement in his name. I didn't need his car on my fleet, but it was newish and I could (can) afford it.
Anyway, it would seem that he manages to spend more than he earns. During the summer he spent a lot putting decking in his garden for example. Now he needs more than he is getting in secure employment. But he hasn't done the maths. Okay, he can claim stuff back against income tax, but he still has to pay it out. Plus I paid him monthly. He says he struggles with monthly pay. Then he says he has to work three weeks in hand with Amazon and then they pay him weekly. He hasn't thought it through that I'll pay him at the end of December, then at the end of January he will have only received two weeks pay.
Then there's the 'its nine hours a day'. Ummm, not if you haven't delivered everything it isn't. They aren't going to accept lots of undelivered parcels when you roll back into the depot at 1730.
He was a self employed taxi driver for a number of years and got himself into a financial mess 18 months ago. He came to me looking for a job. I gave him a contract and agreed to pay him for the finance on his car. I insured, taxed, maintained and fuelled it while he worked for me. But I left the finance agreement in his name. I didn't need his car on my fleet, but it was newish and I could (can) afford it.
Anyway, it would seem that he manages to spend more than he earns. During the summer he spent a lot putting decking in his garden for example. Now he needs more than he is getting in secure employment. But he hasn't done the maths. Okay, he can claim stuff back against income tax, but he still has to pay it out. Plus I paid him monthly. He says he struggles with monthly pay. Then he says he has to work three weeks in hand with Amazon and then they pay him weekly. He hasn't thought it through that I'll pay him at the end of December, then at the end of January he will have only received two weeks pay.
Then there's the 'its nine hours a day'. Ummm, not if you haven't delivered everything it isn't. They aren't going to accept lots of undelivered parcels when you roll back into the depot at 1730.
Taxi driver vs. delivery driver.
For the next 1.5 months, possibly longer depending on January lockdowns, the delivery driver option might be looking a bit more certain.
This is probably one of those typical situations where you get blamed if the advice turns out or is perceived to be bad and you get no thanks if it turns out to be good.
For the next 1.5 months, possibly longer depending on January lockdowns, the delivery driver option might be looking a bit more certain.
This is probably one of those typical situations where you get blamed if the advice turns out or is perceived to be bad and you get no thanks if it turns out to be good.
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