The Uncivil Aviation Authority
Discussion
Just seen this trailer shared on Facebook:
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=F...
Now I knew the CAA was strict (obviously) but I never knew there was seemingly this draconian side to them. This could make for rather interesting viewing when the full film drops!
Could we see it (possibly in conjunction with brexit, given the presume distancing from EASA) being used as an excuse for major reform?
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=F...
Now I knew the CAA was strict (obviously) but I never knew there was seemingly this draconian side to them. This could make for rather interesting viewing when the full film drops!
Could we see it (possibly in conjunction with brexit, given the presume distancing from EASA) being used as an excuse for major reform?
djc206 said:
I’ve read the blurb underneath and at best it’s disingenuous in places. I’ll give it a swerve.
I'm sure it will be completely balanced and not at all one-sided 
In my experience with these things, there is usually a significant history of rulebreaking on the part of the person getting "persecuted" by the big evil regulator, which will of course be omitted in videos like this. The regulator simply doesn't have the time, resource or inclination to go chasing every little infraction, and generally won't take action without good reason.
ChemicalChaos said:
Just seen this trailer shared on Facebook:
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=F...
Now I knew the CAA was strict (obviously) but I never knew there was seemingly this draconian side to them. This could make for rather interesting viewing when the full film drops!
Could we see it (possibly in conjunction with brexit, given the presume distancing from EASA) being used as an excuse for major reform?
From what I remember, EASA was considered less stringent than the CAA, certainly on things like flight time limits. Any reform will probably them being stricter - no way the govt wants a headline on 'chlorinated chicken' lines that after leaving the EU we are lowering safety standards...https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=F...
Now I knew the CAA was strict (obviously) but I never knew there was seemingly this draconian side to them. This could make for rather interesting viewing when the full film drops!
Could we see it (possibly in conjunction with brexit, given the presume distancing from EASA) being used as an excuse for major reform?
Given the recent accident with the footballer in an 'private' aircraft, that may have been acting as an air taxi, I can't imagine the CAA is in any mood to be lax. There is an issue that private aviation is regulated almost as tightly as public (for hire) aviation, but flying for fun isn't exactly a human right. And as leisure aircraft and passenger planes share the same airspace, they are right to be strict.
There's also been an ongoing clampdown about warbirds/ flying displays. Again, it does seem a pity - but on the other hand, allowing old aircraft certified under very different rules to put the public at danger is no longer acceptable.
Edited by wisbech on Sunday 29th November 08:36
Having sat in numerous infringement meetings, some of the airmanship displayed by GA pilots is a disgrace.
However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
wisbech said:
.
There's also been an ongoing clampdown about warbirds/ flying displays. Again, it does seem a pity - but on the other hand, allowing old aircraft certified under very different rules to put the public at danger is no longer acceptable.
If you’re referring to the Shoreham crash, the age of the aircraft had nothing to do with it. There's also been an ongoing clampdown about warbirds/ flying displays. Again, it does seem a pity - but on the other hand, allowing old aircraft certified under very different rules to put the public at danger is no longer acceptable.
Edited by wisbech on Sunday 29th November 08:36
LHRFlightman said:
Having sat in numerous infringement meetings, some of the airmanship displayed by GA pilots is a disgrace.
However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
Underneath all the drama that sounds exactly like what's going on. However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
On one hand i absolutely agree that they should rule with an iron fist, but they should do it fairly same with a transparent process.
LHRFlightman said:
Having sat in numerous infringement meetings, some of the airmanship displayed by GA pilots is a disgrace.
However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
I think the last bit is critical. They’re definitely understaffed and because they don’t pay very well they seem to struggle to get people with suitable relevant experience to work for them. I’m not saying it’s definitely the case but it appears that one of the complaints in the “film” is in relation to unqualified people passing a judgement that they simply do not have the experience to pass. If that is the case then quite simply the CAA needs to work to recruit people who are qualified and if that requires more money then it should be found.However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
There are some antiquated practices which are laborious and need changing that should free up some resource. Paper licences and medicals for example. Why oh why do we not just have an electronic database and a photo card like we do for driving? Bits of paper that have to be stamped and signed and updated by examiners etc. Very old hat.
The video is about the controlled airspace approach.
In recent years that approach has become discredited, mainly due to the actions of the CAA. Firstly airports have been allowed to claim large areas of airspace as 'theirs'. They have promised free access to passing GA traffic and then largely excluded it.
Separately NATS (a private company remember) have introduced the CAIT tool - an automated piece of software which monitors controlled airspace and does not acknowledge the inaccuracies (or rather the tolerances) that aircraft instrumentation has. They then mandated that a MOR (mandatory occurrence report) is raised whenever CAIT alerts.
End result numerous pilots cited for being near but not necessarily IN controlled airspace. The CAA then compounded things by getting GACSO to run a compulsory 'education' course, which the pilot must pay for at distant locations, once cited for a controlled airspace bust (from CAIT).
There is no doubt there have been some really dumb controlled airspace incursions from a small number of pilots. These need to be dealt with by re-training and in the worst cases potential license suspension. But, and it is a big but, if a pilot is subject to the CAIT - MOR process the CAA threatens license suspension if the course in not attended - no excuses, no justification and no opportunity for the pilot to see the evidence against him or her. The 'natural justice' processes have been suspended by the CAA - quite possibly because over the last 10 years or so the CAA's record on winning prosecution cases it has brought has been very poor. So it is much easier for them to avoid court and review of their 'evidence' and processes and simply wave a big stick at people who generally simply cannot afford to fight a government (ok - quango) department.
Hence the increasing pressure on CAA processes being subject to independent review - long overdue!
In recent years that approach has become discredited, mainly due to the actions of the CAA. Firstly airports have been allowed to claim large areas of airspace as 'theirs'. They have promised free access to passing GA traffic and then largely excluded it.
Separately NATS (a private company remember) have introduced the CAIT tool - an automated piece of software which monitors controlled airspace and does not acknowledge the inaccuracies (or rather the tolerances) that aircraft instrumentation has. They then mandated that a MOR (mandatory occurrence report) is raised whenever CAIT alerts.
End result numerous pilots cited for being near but not necessarily IN controlled airspace. The CAA then compounded things by getting GACSO to run a compulsory 'education' course, which the pilot must pay for at distant locations, once cited for a controlled airspace bust (from CAIT).
There is no doubt there have been some really dumb controlled airspace incursions from a small number of pilots. These need to be dealt with by re-training and in the worst cases potential license suspension. But, and it is a big but, if a pilot is subject to the CAIT - MOR process the CAA threatens license suspension if the course in not attended - no excuses, no justification and no opportunity for the pilot to see the evidence against him or her. The 'natural justice' processes have been suspended by the CAA - quite possibly because over the last 10 years or so the CAA's record on winning prosecution cases it has brought has been very poor. So it is much easier for them to avoid court and review of their 'evidence' and processes and simply wave a big stick at people who generally simply cannot afford to fight a government (ok - quango) department.
Hence the increasing pressure on CAA processes being subject to independent review - long overdue!
wisbech said:
There's also been an ongoing clampdown about warbirds/ flying displays. Again, it does seem a pity - but on the other hand, allowing old aircraft certified under very different rules to put the public at danger is no longer acceptable.
You should get a job writing for the Daily Mail spouting crap like that....Tony1963 said:
wisbech said:
.
There's also been an ongoing clampdown about warbirds/ flying displays. Again, it does seem a pity - but on the other hand, allowing old aircraft certified under very different rules to put the public at danger is no longer acceptable.
If you’re referring to the Shoreham crash, the age of the aircraft had nothing to do with it. There's also been an ongoing clampdown about warbirds/ flying displays. Again, it does seem a pity - but on the other hand, allowing old aircraft certified under very different rules to put the public at danger is no longer acceptable.
Edited by wisbech on Sunday 29th November 08:36
ChemicalChaos said:
Just seen this trailer shared on Facebook:
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=F...
Now I knew the CAA was strict (obviously) but I never knew there was seemingly this draconian side to them. This could make for rather interesting viewing when the full film drops!
Could we see it (possibly in conjunction with brexit, given the presume distancing from EASA) being used as an excuse for major reform?
I watched 1 minute of that and turned it off. https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=F...
Now I knew the CAA was strict (obviously) but I never knew there was seemingly this draconian side to them. This could make for rather interesting viewing when the full film drops!
Could we see it (possibly in conjunction with brexit, given the presume distancing from EASA) being used as an excuse for major reform?
What I saw was absolute and total rubbish.
There is much to praise and criticise the CAA for, but anyone who simply bandies around the absolute rubbish about "Campaign Against Aviation" etc is just saying they have never been in a position to work with them. Through my career, I have found the CAA as a whole and on an individual basis to be knowledgeable, helpful and in many cases, very proactive in their support for the industry. This has been in both GA and airline sectors.
IforB said:
I watched 1 minute of that and turned it off.
What I saw was absolute and total rubbish.
There is much to praise and criticise the CAA for, but anyone who simply bandies around the absolute rubbish about "Campaign Against Aviation" etc is just saying they have never been in a position to work with them. Through my career, I have found the CAA as a whole and on an individual basis to be knowledgeable, helpful and in many cases, very proactive in their support for the industry. This has been in both GA and airline sectors.
I have attended a few meetings over the years with the CAA and I too found them very supportive of the industry and helpful (except one guy who was miserable as hell but all his colleagues shared our opinion of him being a miserable sod!)What I saw was absolute and total rubbish.
There is much to praise and criticise the CAA for, but anyone who simply bandies around the absolute rubbish about "Campaign Against Aviation" etc is just saying they have never been in a position to work with them. Through my career, I have found the CAA as a whole and on an individual basis to be knowledgeable, helpful and in many cases, very proactive in their support for the industry. This has been in both GA and airline sectors.
LHRFlightman said:
Having sat in numerous infringement meetings, some of the airmanship displayed by GA pilots is a disgrace.
However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
That certainly bears out what I have read recently in the comics and on forums populated by hobby fliers; there's too much sHowever a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
t flying going on but the CAA's process for investigation/enforcement is atrophied and opaque.djc206 said:
There are some antiquated practices which are laborious and need changing that should free up some resource. Paper licences and medicals for example. Why oh why do we not just have an electronic database and a photo card like we do for driving? Bits of paper that have to be stamped and signed and updated by examiners etc. Very old hat.
The MCA is the same, although I hope some of the recent move to doing things online will be retained after ZOMGPANDEMIC is over; fannying about with bits of paper in 2020 is farcical.hidetheelephants said:
LHRFlightman said:
Having sat in numerous infringement meetings, some of the airmanship displayed by GA pilots is a disgrace.
However a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
That certainly bears out what I have read recently in the comics and on forums populated by hobby fliers; there's too much sHowever a lot of what is said in the video has a grain of truth in it and it's time the CAA was reviewed.
They could also do with some more staff. The time anything takes to get done is unacceptable.
t flying going on but the CAA's process for investigation/enforcement is atrophied and opaque.djc206 said:
There are some antiquated practices which are laborious and need changing that should free up some resource. Paper licences and medicals for example. Why oh why do we not just have an electronic database and a photo card like we do for driving? Bits of paper that have to be stamped and signed and updated by examiners etc. Very old hat.
The MCA is the same, although I hope some of the recent move to doing things online will be retained after ZOMGPANDEMIC is over; fannying about with bits of paper in 2020 is farcical.Regards that clip above, wow, someone has a bee in their bonnet! Is is also worth pointing out....I forwarded that to a mate. He tells me there is an individual in that clip who has already been prosecuted by the CAA having plead guilty to an infringement !! We all make mistakes, sometimes we get punished for them. Suck it up and get on with it.
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