Last shopped for a Rolex in 2011 - what have I missed?
Discussion
My interest in watches dates back about 20 years - albeit inconsistently. Over that time I've become more, then less, interested, as other hobbies and life stuff came and went. I've only had an interest in buying to wear, not buying to invest or flip.
Along that path, I purchased an utterly routine black dial sub non date in 2002, second hand from fleabay for £3,200 box, papers, serviced. Kept it for 2 years, drifted away... then drifted back via a steel and gold Daytona in 2004 with a stupid dial. Didn't last long, and off I went to do other things. Sold it for a little less than I paid, in 2007, but didn't put nearly as much effort in as I should have done. Then in 2011 purchased a secondhand Cellini from Blowers Jewelers, who used to have a great website and good standing. I've still got the Cellini, which I love.
Setting aside the Sub and the Cellini, my only "official" purchasing experience from an AD was Harrods for the Daytona. I did a bit of research, marched in, told them what I wanted. They only had a mother of pearl, so ordered one in, and a fortnight later I picked it up. £7,200 paid, zero waiting time, good customer service. Didn't like the watch but that's not their fault.
Since buying the Cellini I haven't really looked in to watches, but I bought a Bentley last month and have seen the Breitling clock smiling out of the dash at me, and it's re-ignited the flame a little. Albeit not for Breitling, and most definitely not the Breitling for Bentleys. I was aware of the Skydweller coming out, googled once or twice at the time but thought they were a bit much for what they were, and didn't look in to it any further. Everything else - I have missed.
Anyway - I poodle along to PistonHeads, reading a few threads (including the mammoth thread on 'has the rolex bubble finally burst', and I feel like I don't recognise the world any more! Fine, I've been hidden under a rock for the best part of 9 years, since the Cellini purchase, but has the Rolex world really changed this much? And become so psuedo exclusive and also, downright expensive!?
Has it really become such a snooty, play-the-game-with-the-AD, or, you won't get on the list, kind of affair? I've read posts from people practicing synchronized-rolex-dressing-up with their partner, and putting their lucky shirt on for a visit bluewater, to seemingly put face time in at the dealership. Trying to buy a fairly mass produced watch in the era of the internet, not putting someone forwards for Whites. Sounds nuts to me.
I have very very little basis of comparison, granted, especially compared to lots of people on here, but it just seems a world away from the last time I looked into stuff like this. Feels like the world was simpler place back then.
Purely for my interest and understanding, anyone care to share their views on what happened over the past few years, for someone coming out of hibernation? Did "stuff happen" to cause this state of affairs, or has it just been a gradual drift over time? Impact of new models or markets such as the far east etc? Can't all be down to China, surely.
Keen to hear from people who were buying and collecting in the period I was "away" and help me fill in the gaps!
Along that path, I purchased an utterly routine black dial sub non date in 2002, second hand from fleabay for £3,200 box, papers, serviced. Kept it for 2 years, drifted away... then drifted back via a steel and gold Daytona in 2004 with a stupid dial. Didn't last long, and off I went to do other things. Sold it for a little less than I paid, in 2007, but didn't put nearly as much effort in as I should have done. Then in 2011 purchased a secondhand Cellini from Blowers Jewelers, who used to have a great website and good standing. I've still got the Cellini, which I love.
Setting aside the Sub and the Cellini, my only "official" purchasing experience from an AD was Harrods for the Daytona. I did a bit of research, marched in, told them what I wanted. They only had a mother of pearl, so ordered one in, and a fortnight later I picked it up. £7,200 paid, zero waiting time, good customer service. Didn't like the watch but that's not their fault.
Since buying the Cellini I haven't really looked in to watches, but I bought a Bentley last month and have seen the Breitling clock smiling out of the dash at me, and it's re-ignited the flame a little. Albeit not for Breitling, and most definitely not the Breitling for Bentleys. I was aware of the Skydweller coming out, googled once or twice at the time but thought they were a bit much for what they were, and didn't look in to it any further. Everything else - I have missed.
Anyway - I poodle along to PistonHeads, reading a few threads (including the mammoth thread on 'has the rolex bubble finally burst', and I feel like I don't recognise the world any more! Fine, I've been hidden under a rock for the best part of 9 years, since the Cellini purchase, but has the Rolex world really changed this much? And become so psuedo exclusive and also, downright expensive!?
Has it really become such a snooty, play-the-game-with-the-AD, or, you won't get on the list, kind of affair? I've read posts from people practicing synchronized-rolex-dressing-up with their partner, and putting their lucky shirt on for a visit bluewater, to seemingly put face time in at the dealership. Trying to buy a fairly mass produced watch in the era of the internet, not putting someone forwards for Whites. Sounds nuts to me.
I have very very little basis of comparison, granted, especially compared to lots of people on here, but it just seems a world away from the last time I looked into stuff like this. Feels like the world was simpler place back then.
Purely for my interest and understanding, anyone care to share their views on what happened over the past few years, for someone coming out of hibernation? Did "stuff happen" to cause this state of affairs, or has it just been a gradual drift over time? Impact of new models or markets such as the far east etc? Can't all be down to China, surely.
Keen to hear from people who were buying and collecting in the period I was "away" and help me fill in the gaps!
Unfortunately in regards to price all premium brands have gone up like crazy since 9yrs ago. The only brand brand I can think that hasn't changed much is zenith.
Same with handbags for the girls... Chanel, Hermes, LV etc all gone up way above inflation.
What you have missed during the last 9yrs is the surge in social media driving the market of premium brands. Nothing like 1000's of likes for rocking a white dial 116500LN on your feed.
Same with handbags for the girls... Chanel, Hermes, LV etc all gone up way above inflation.
What you have missed during the last 9yrs is the surge in social media driving the market of premium brands. Nothing like 1000's of likes for rocking a white dial 116500LN on your feed.
I think the craziness on the steel sports models has only really kicked off in the last 3 to 4 years. When I bought my Omega PO I could have easily bought a steel Rolex but thought, I like the Omega, I’ll buy a Rolex later. That plan didn’t work out well and now I’m struggling to get the Rolex I want without paying massive mark-up over list on the grey market. I’m sure others on here will be able to provide more detailed comment on when the madness started...
Crumbs.
I've just looked at current prices.
Honestly, if you'd have stopped me in the street a week ago and asked me prices, I would have said
Submariner non date probably about £5k
Daytona £7k - £10k, little more for silly stuff maybe.
Shows what I know, eh. Admittedly that wouldn't have taken inflation in to account, and serves as a pretty good indicator of how out of touch I am. And not following instagram and suchlike, this whole thing has passed me buy.
I'm in my mid 30s... yet somehow suddenly feel incredibly old...
I've just looked at current prices.
Honestly, if you'd have stopped me in the street a week ago and asked me prices, I would have said
Submariner non date probably about £5k
Daytona £7k - £10k, little more for silly stuff maybe.
Shows what I know, eh. Admittedly that wouldn't have taken inflation in to account, and serves as a pretty good indicator of how out of touch I am. And not following instagram and suchlike, this whole thing has passed me buy.
I'm in my mid 30s... yet somehow suddenly feel incredibly old...
Yep. It’s madness.
Rolex is basically unobtainable.
Tudor, however, has upped its game and has a decent range of stainless steel sports watches that you can actually buy.
There are plenty of other brands producing delightful watches. There’s no need to play the mad AD games that Rolex want.
Rolex is basically unobtainable.
Tudor, however, has upped its game and has a decent range of stainless steel sports watches that you can actually buy.
There are plenty of other brands producing delightful watches. There’s no need to play the mad AD games that Rolex want.
Powerfully Built Company Director said:
I've still got the Cellini, which I love.
Appreciate a lot of the Cellini's are dog-toffee, but I really liked this one, a 5116/9, i.e. https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watches/rolex/mens-...
Couldn't find an IWC that I liked enough, and didn't want to stretch to a Breguet at the time, and was quite happy to stay in-brand.
There. Strange choice justification off my chest
Powerfully Built Company Director said:
Ninjin said:
Nothing like 1000's of likes for rocking a white dial 116500LN on your feed.
Sorry to sound like a grandpa using a mobile phone for the first time, but do they make money from doing that? Or is it just for internet points? It has driven the demand for luxury items and 'flashy items' absolutely through the roof in the last 10 years, pretty much the exact time you have been 'away' so to speak.
Seemingly everyone wants their cars, holidays, clothes, shoes, jewellery, and watches to be seen by everyone on Facebook/Instagram.
The kids say you have to be 'flexing' these days. Which means showing off your possessions, recent purchases, and apparent wealth.
When people in their 20's, 30's and 40's buy a watch now, they want something that really lets everyone know who is boss, even if they aren't interested in watches, or even if they can't afford it. They want a Rolex because it says 'Rolex' on it, and they'll buy it however they can.
Social media has been a big rocket the sales figures of Tiffany, Rolex, Burberry, Dior, Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton, etc. None of them can make stuff fast enough these days. It all sells out. Everyone wants to be seen showing it off like they are millionaires.
A few of these 'Instagram influencers' make money from showing off their 'luxury purchases', but for everyone else, it is simply about trying to impress strangers on the internet, their neighbours, friends, and work colleagues.
I saw a Twitter post the other day from a guy that said "I have just seen a young lad putting £10 petrol in a £60k Merc, and that kind of sums up our entire generation".
Social media and the younger generation aren't all to blame for the rush on luxury goods though. Ordinary people of all ages now see it as almost a right to have a brand new 4/5 bed detached on an 'executive estate', Range Rover on their driveway, and his 'n' hers matching Rolex watches, and they will absolutely cripple themselves financially, spending their last penny every month to have it.
I watched an interview with a long-serving Rolex AD the other day and he summed it up quite well by saying "Buying a Rolex used to be a special purchase for people who were financially well off, and really wanted to treat themselves or celebrate a special occasion. These days, ordinary people are buying them like they are an everyday purchase".
As for buying one yourself, if you really only want a Rolex then put your name down with an AD, maybe buy a watch or two from them, and you might then get the allocated the Rolex you want.
Many people are put off by the limited availability though, including many on this forum, and including myself. I would never pay the grey market prices for what is essentially a mass-produced stainless steel GMT or Sub etc. I bought mine a few years ago when a used price was a 2-3 grand less than new price. I have no interest whatsoever in buying stuff I don't want from an AD or paying inflated prices.
I've moved on to other brands now, and bought a few pieces over this last 12 months that aren't Rolex, and I couldn't be happier to be honest. Some people I know who are into watches are also moving away from Rolex now, saying they would prefer something a little less 'everywhere' than Rolex.
Rolex will always be a great brand, but there is so much demand that buying one will likely be an issue from this point onwards, unless the model you want is one of the less desirable ones.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 6th December 18:10
Lord Marylebone said:
I watched an interview with a long-serving Rolex AD the other day and he summed it up quite well by saying "Buying a Rolex used to be a special purchase for people who were financially well off, and really wanted to treat themselves or celebrate a special occasion. These days, ordinary people are buying them like they are an everyday purchase".
Interesting, do you have the URL at all please?Lord Marylebone said:
As for buying one yourself, if you really only want a Rolex then put your name down with an AD, maybe buy a watch or two from them, and you might then get the allocated the Rolex you want.
Ah, no, I'm not planning a purchase.Well, OK, there may have been a glimmer of interest in getting a s/s black dial no date sub, simply to replace what I sold c. 17-something years ago. But that hope went right out the window today... as much as I liked the watch,
a. no interest in paying these sort of prices these days - that's only a couple of grand away from a Breguet or something else a little more special
b. no interest in playing games with an AD... doing a load of foreplay and magic little dance of being put on a list that maybe is, maybe isn't real... having to buy my way through layers of guff... honestly it sounds more like Scientology than a watch brand!
I can't honestly think of another product group or brand where you have to play such silly games and behave so subserviently to the seller. I know Porsche and Ferrari etc like to but barriers up, but that's more about genuine limited availability of the products I suspect, and not say £10k watches from a brand that can supply pieces up to £100k and above. Having a barrier to entry on the top of the line, maybe, but the entry levels? Nuts.
Can I have my time machine now please, I want to go back to 2008...
Powerfully Built Company Director said:
<snip>
I can't honestly think of another product group or brand where you have to play such silly games and behave so subserviently to the seller. I know Porsche and Ferrari etc like to but barriers up, but that's more about genuine limited availability of the products I suspect, and not say £10k watches from a brand that can supply pieces up to £100k and above. Having a barrier to entry on the top of the line, maybe, but the entry levels? Nuts.
<snip>
Just picking up on the point about limited availability, I believe it to be the case that the issues with supply of Rolex models is genuinely because of supply and demand.I can't honestly think of another product group or brand where you have to play such silly games and behave so subserviently to the seller. I know Porsche and Ferrari etc like to but barriers up, but that's more about genuine limited availability of the products I suspect, and not say £10k watches from a brand that can supply pieces up to £100k and above. Having a barrier to entry on the top of the line, maybe, but the entry levels? Nuts.
<snip>
Rolex makes over 1 Million watches per year, but demand now vastly outstrips supply, hence why the AD's can be choosy who they sell to.
And I’m assuming that;
Every watch will sell, eventually, so they have time on their side and can play games
And
If, for every 50 people who say “pah” and refuse to play, one person does go ahead and buy something they didn’t really want, in order to climb the ladder, then they win. Because not only is that a sale, it’s a further reenforcement of the behaviour and the ‘process’ being valid, acceptable, and necessary... and so it goes on.
It’s been interesting reading some other threads here, and seeing people reverently discussing the best way to approach the AD, as if it’s some time honoured right of passage with a “form” that must be observed. All sounds a load of poppycock to me!
Every watch will sell, eventually, so they have time on their side and can play games
And
If, for every 50 people who say “pah” and refuse to play, one person does go ahead and buy something they didn’t really want, in order to climb the ladder, then they win. Because not only is that a sale, it’s a further reenforcement of the behaviour and the ‘process’ being valid, acceptable, and necessary... and so it goes on.
It’s been interesting reading some other threads here, and seeing people reverently discussing the best way to approach the AD, as if it’s some time honoured right of passage with a “form” that must be observed. All sounds a load of poppycock to me!
Powerfully Built Company Director said:
And I’m assuming that;
Every watch will sell, eventually, so they have time on their side and can play games
And
If, for every 50 people who say “pah” and refuse to play, one person does go ahead and buy something they didn’t really want, in order to climb the ladder, then they win. Because not only is that a sale, it’s a further reenforcement of the behaviour and the ‘process’ being valid, acceptable, and necessary... and so it goes on.
It’s been interesting reading some other threads here, and seeing people reverently discussing the best way to approach the AD, as if it’s some time honoured right of passage with a “form” that must be observed. All sounds a load of poppycock to me!
Well whatever you do, don't go on any of the American watch forums...Every watch will sell, eventually, so they have time on their side and can play games
And
If, for every 50 people who say “pah” and refuse to play, one person does go ahead and buy something they didn’t really want, in order to climb the ladder, then they win. Because not only is that a sale, it’s a further reenforcement of the behaviour and the ‘process’ being valid, acceptable, and necessary... and so it goes on.
It’s been interesting reading some other threads here, and seeing people reverently discussing the best way to approach the AD, as if it’s some time honoured right of passage with a “form” that must be observed. All sounds a load of poppycock to me!
You will see many threads entitled "What Christmas present should I buy for my Rolex AD?' and "How many times per month should I call in and see my Rolex AD, and what gifts should I take them to maintain my relationship?"
I'm not making any of this up either.
I’m glad I chose to buy my submariner when I did in 2015, it was more luck than anything else! I’d hankered after one for years and came close to buying one in 2005, I think they were around £3k ish at the time. I had promised myself one before our wedding in 2015. I was also conscious that prices had nearly doubled in 10 years.
From memory in 2015 I think steel sports were still in relatively short supply, but you would still see them in dealer windows from time to time. It wasn’t long after this that things started to go nuts.
I actually walked into a local jewellers on a Saturday for a browse with no real intention of buying. I was in luck as they had received a delivery from Rolex on Friday. I had the choice of non-date, date and hulk. I bought the date, but in hindsight I should have bought the hulk too and locked it away!
From memory in 2015 I think steel sports were still in relatively short supply, but you would still see them in dealer windows from time to time. It wasn’t long after this that things started to go nuts.
I actually walked into a local jewellers on a Saturday for a browse with no real intention of buying. I was in luck as they had received a delivery from Rolex on Friday. I had the choice of non-date, date and hulk. I bought the date, but in hindsight I should have bought the hulk too and locked it away!
OP
Just be aware that the forum here is a bit of an echo chamber with the same familiar voices.
Yes, the watches are in demand.
The brand also seems to generate a lot of resentment, and a lot of opinion.
Yes, it appears some watches go out the back door to grey dealers (someone on here admitted it formed part of their business model so let's take that confession at face value).
Social media has played a part. I suspect cross border trade enabled by the net has done its thing too.
However, it is also possible to buy a new Submariner from an AD. There are loads of people who do so every year. Your guess of about 5k for a no date isn't far off the £6450 list price.
Pop into a branch, say hello, ask for what you want.
Voila. Worth waiting a few months for.
Hoping a green OP41 shows up at some point too.
Just be aware that the forum here is a bit of an echo chamber with the same familiar voices.
Yes, the watches are in demand.
The brand also seems to generate a lot of resentment, and a lot of opinion.
Yes, it appears some watches go out the back door to grey dealers (someone on here admitted it formed part of their business model so let's take that confession at face value).
Social media has played a part. I suspect cross border trade enabled by the net has done its thing too.
However, it is also possible to buy a new Submariner from an AD. There are loads of people who do so every year. Your guess of about 5k for a no date isn't far off the £6450 list price.
Pop into a branch, say hello, ask for what you want.
Voila. Worth waiting a few months for.
Hoping a green OP41 shows up at some point too.
Remember also global demand has increased massively with the rise of middle classes with more disposable income and wanting to show it, in places like China, India and Russia.
Rolex being the best known luxury brand in the world is the go to for people wanting to show they’ve arrived.
In the U.K. the issue is as said, about social media and people buying to sell for a profit and cheap credit.
Rolex being the best known luxury brand in the world is the go to for people wanting to show they’ve arrived.
In the U.K. the issue is as said, about social media and people buying to sell for a profit and cheap credit.
T6 vanman said:
Are they now keeping the bracelet along with the stickers tags and papers??
If I worked as an AD I might tell somebody that when they came to pick theirs up! Sorry mate, you can only take a photo of the watch here. We'll hold onto it for a year for you if you don't mind. The oyster is great, but a nato suits me better for lots of reasons.
Remember when certain people couldn't stop whinging with disgusted anguish that WoS kept the warranty cards for a year? They were delighted when that got stopped through the courts. Nobody I know who actually bought a Rolex under that rule gave a monkeys - they had their watch to enjoy. Same with the sticker removal.
Some of the same people who were vocal about it are now disgusted at how many month old box and papers watches are available. They just like whinging about stuff on the Internet. I'm sure they'll be along to whinge about this post any time soon.
Just out of curiosity I have had a rummage in the Rolex website. Rummage is the word. Why is it so difficult?
https://www.rolex.com/wishlist.html
I selected a watch, now they want me to tell people about it! Why don't they just sell me the watch?
Can't be doing with this. Surely they would be better off sticking another thousand on the price and selling it to me?
Too frustrating.
https://www.rolex.com/wishlist.html
I selected a watch, now they want me to tell people about it! Why don't they just sell me the watch?
Can't be doing with this. Surely they would be better off sticking another thousand on the price and selling it to me?
Too frustrating.
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