Audi s1 vs Yaris GR, anyone tried both?
Discussion
tomsugden said:
I've not had the Toyota, but I have had an S1 until it was pinched. It replaced two cars, an S4 4.2 V8 and an A4 2.0 TDI. It was as fast as the S4, very comfortable, and would return 40mpg when doing company miles. I'd have another in a heartbeat.
Stolen? ouch how did that happen?OP,I had an S1. It was fast - I'm sure it was faster than it claimed to be. They have weak clutches so you'd best either budget for an uprated replacement at £1-2k or try and avoid dropping it at the lights too often. The Haldex makes it great in all weather - never lost traction, but it wasn't that fun. Didn't make me grin ear to ear like say a Mini does. Inside does feel just like any other A1 which also is a disappointment if you've had cooking spec Audis previously. I still miss it though and would have another on reflection.
If I was buying cash, I'd get an S1, if I was getting on finance I'd go for the Yaris. I actually have this same dilemma in the next 18 months or so. I'll watch this thread with interest!
fido said:
I had an S1 and someone tried to steal it but failed. Fantastic little car. As said before so many MPG with awesome cross-country pace. Rear seats down it was just about practical enough. Only sold it to scratch the MX-5 itch.
I'd be very interested to know how you find the MX5 after the S1? Always been tempted but the rust horror stories have always put me off.I love my S1 but only since tweaking the steering with VCDS to be more interactive and tightening up the standard sloppy gear change. Sometimes I wonder if I'd prefer something more interactive and visceral but I'd probably regret that on a long journey.
I personally can't see the Yaris GR offering a huge amount more in the driving department and certainly not as a place to sit in. The S1 is very balanced on the limit and the haldex system (gen 5 like the Golf R) is superb. They're both more about capability than outright fun which is entertaining in it's own way.
Had a go in the Yaris round a track the other day and found myself wondering what else might offer a similar experience and the s1 popped into my head.
Need to have a go in the Audi but the Yaris was absolutely spectacular, everything from the gearshift to the steering to the ease with which it’ll get slidey in a predictable fashion just felt so spot on.
Can the S1s handling be made more exciting, I’m guessing this will be where it falls short..?
Need to have a go in the Audi but the Yaris was absolutely spectacular, everything from the gearshift to the steering to the ease with which it’ll get slidey in a predictable fashion just felt so spot on.
Can the S1s handling be made more exciting, I’m guessing this will be where it falls short..?
I’ve owned/own both, so here’s what I think.
First, I think it would help to explain what my driving preferences are, since this guides the sort of car that I prefer. I like driving very rapidly, on narrow, windy roads, in all weather conditions. Hence I have a strong preference cars which have modest widths, 4WD, lots of torque, and very good brakes. And when I say modest width, specifically a max of 1.8 metres, give or take a couple of mill. Why do I think this is so important? Because you get more road space to position your car, which gives you more confidence on narrow B roads, and also because it gives more (and safer) overtaking opportunities on country roads. And if you think about it, there literally only a handful of cars that meet those criteria, and most are not made any more.
So when the Audi S1 was launched I was keen to see what is was like. I was driving an early Fiesta ST (Mk 7), which was very good to drive, but had a few significant shortcomings: primarily a god awful ride quality around town, and next to useless headlights (Xenon’s were not then an option on that model).
I test drove the S1 and was immediately smitten. Basically, fast as chuff, huge grip, quality Audi interior of course, excellent brakes, and importantly, active suspension as standard. The last point is a biggie. Hot hatches almost universally have a poor ride quality on our badly maintained roads. And you might say, well they’re sporty cars, what do you expect? But the state of UK roads makes driving most passive suspension performance cars very tiresome after a while. Before the S1, I don’t think there were any lower/mid segment cars with active suspension as standard. It was/is and option on the Golf GTI/Golf R, BMWs, etc.
So I bought a new S1 for 26k. I think it was a performance bargain then, and now if buying used. The press reviews were mixed, but there were not many positive reviews. As far as I was concerned, it was in another league compared to the Mini JCW and Fiesta ST, both of which I had owned. Much quicker point-to-point, a far superior ride, and with a high quality interior. It was even well equipped as standard, and despite having a smaller boot than the A1 (for the 4WD gubbins),it was quite practical.
I drove the S1 to the Alps on a skiing trip. Me plus 3 teenagers, with a roof-box on top. I had some memorable drives in the Alps. The S1 was phenomenal on wet alpine switchbacks. Without passengers, I was doing 120 MPH on narrow and wet roads, going UPHILL, with a roof-box attached! I’m certain the GR Yaris would be no quicker in similar conditions.
And so onto the GR Yaris. When the first, wildly ecstatic, reviews came out, I have never, ever wanted a car so badly, since my 987 Cayman S. I was on the verge of ordering one straightaway, but held back because I was worried about residuals. What a laugh, eh? Interest free credit, I would have made money on it. Such is life. Two years’ on, I decide I still want one, so I put my name on the waiting list. Been on it for more than 18 months, and I’m still on it now. Top tip if you want a new GR Yaris without paying a premium. Ring up a few Toyota dealers and ask them to give you a call if they get a cancelled order. It’s quite common. I only phoned one garage and got a call within 2 weeks.
The slight downside or a cancelled order is that you have to accept the colour. I would have been happy with the standard white, or possibly metallic red. My GRY was pearlescent white, which is OK, but not worth paying 900 quid for in my opinion. Anyway, beggars can’t choosers. 36.5 K with the circuit pack and paint. They’ve gone up a couple of grand since the launch as well.
So what do I think of the GR Yaris? From the get-go it feels special and different from typical performance cars. It has a sort of tough, industrial feel to it, which is probably because it’s a bespoke rally car. The gear change is positive, but again feels tough. Quite hefty but positive steering. The suspension is very effective, but bouncy (lots of travel needed for a rally car).
I was surprised how good the engine is. It sounds fantastic when you cane it, and it really revs out. You don’t feel short changed in any way by having a 3 cylinder, 1.6 litre under the bonnet.
The brakes are massive and awesome, and I honestly think it looks amazing.
Lastly, it’s very comfortable, with supportive seats, and it’s well equipped. People can be a bit snobby about Toyotas, not as much soft touch plastics, etc, but it’s a very solid, well screwed together car.
And to drive it hard? It’s still not full run-in (1000k recommended by Toyota), so I’m trying not to red-line it, but it’s a car that can be driven very fast indeed across cold and wet B roads, and it takes it all in it’s stride. Very satisfying to drive quickly.
Negative points? Well, it’s sort of has too much grip. Even if you turn all driver aids off, put it in sport mode (70 power to the rear), the tyres don’t move even in wet, cold conditions. That’s good because it’s safe, and it’s fun having the confidence to drive so quickly, but it would be nice if were more playful. That was also one of the main criticisms of the Audi S1, which didn’t have switchable power delivery, but I guess it’s a feature of 4WD cars generally. The ride is very bouncy unless you’re on a smooth road. Gets irritating after a while. If I were going to keep mine long term, I would spring for the Litchfield fitted Nitron suspension.
If you take passengers in the rear, then it’s a bit cramped, particularly if they are over average height. Boot is very small too. It’s a bit noisy, but that comes with the rally car territory in my view.
One thing I don’t have a problem with, is the seat height and forwards view. I think all the reviews I’ve read have been critical about the seat height and perceived lack of visibility due to the high position of the infotainment screen. I honestly don’t get it. I’m not short at just under 6 foot, and I find nothing wrong with the seat height or visibility. I don’t even have the seat in its lowest position. Because the GRY is essentially a rally car, it is relatively tall for a performance car. I don’t see the point of having the seat fittings lowered either. You wouldn’t then have as good view of the road ahead.
And versus the Audi S1? The GRY is an unapologetic rally special. The S1 is a city car fitted with a 4WD and a powerful engine.
The S1 is, of course, a much better day-to-day car. You can take rear passengers without a problem (you can have rear doors if you want, too). It also has a much more comfortable ride (unless you’re in sport mode). The S1 is, of course, not as focussed a performance car as the GRY. There are no special diffs, for example, but in terms of point-to-point speed across country, there’s really not much in it. The S1 honestly doesn’t feel much slower across a twisty country route than the GRY. It weights a bit more than the GRY, and is down on power by nearly 30 BHP, although it has nearly 10 lbs/ft more torque.
Even though I’m a GR Yaris owner and fanboy, I would happily (and still might), get another Audi S1.
I think I will keep the GRY for a year or so, and then get something with a bit more finesse. In my book that means either a Cayman R, or a used Alpine A110 (at nearly 2 metres a bit too wide for my liking).
First, I think it would help to explain what my driving preferences are, since this guides the sort of car that I prefer. I like driving very rapidly, on narrow, windy roads, in all weather conditions. Hence I have a strong preference cars which have modest widths, 4WD, lots of torque, and very good brakes. And when I say modest width, specifically a max of 1.8 metres, give or take a couple of mill. Why do I think this is so important? Because you get more road space to position your car, which gives you more confidence on narrow B roads, and also because it gives more (and safer) overtaking opportunities on country roads. And if you think about it, there literally only a handful of cars that meet those criteria, and most are not made any more.
So when the Audi S1 was launched I was keen to see what is was like. I was driving an early Fiesta ST (Mk 7), which was very good to drive, but had a few significant shortcomings: primarily a god awful ride quality around town, and next to useless headlights (Xenon’s were not then an option on that model).
I test drove the S1 and was immediately smitten. Basically, fast as chuff, huge grip, quality Audi interior of course, excellent brakes, and importantly, active suspension as standard. The last point is a biggie. Hot hatches almost universally have a poor ride quality on our badly maintained roads. And you might say, well they’re sporty cars, what do you expect? But the state of UK roads makes driving most passive suspension performance cars very tiresome after a while. Before the S1, I don’t think there were any lower/mid segment cars with active suspension as standard. It was/is and option on the Golf GTI/Golf R, BMWs, etc.
So I bought a new S1 for 26k. I think it was a performance bargain then, and now if buying used. The press reviews were mixed, but there were not many positive reviews. As far as I was concerned, it was in another league compared to the Mini JCW and Fiesta ST, both of which I had owned. Much quicker point-to-point, a far superior ride, and with a high quality interior. It was even well equipped as standard, and despite having a smaller boot than the A1 (for the 4WD gubbins),it was quite practical.
I drove the S1 to the Alps on a skiing trip. Me plus 3 teenagers, with a roof-box on top. I had some memorable drives in the Alps. The S1 was phenomenal on wet alpine switchbacks. Without passengers, I was doing 120 MPH on narrow and wet roads, going UPHILL, with a roof-box attached! I’m certain the GR Yaris would be no quicker in similar conditions.
And so onto the GR Yaris. When the first, wildly ecstatic, reviews came out, I have never, ever wanted a car so badly, since my 987 Cayman S. I was on the verge of ordering one straightaway, but held back because I was worried about residuals. What a laugh, eh? Interest free credit, I would have made money on it. Such is life. Two years’ on, I decide I still want one, so I put my name on the waiting list. Been on it for more than 18 months, and I’m still on it now. Top tip if you want a new GR Yaris without paying a premium. Ring up a few Toyota dealers and ask them to give you a call if they get a cancelled order. It’s quite common. I only phoned one garage and got a call within 2 weeks.
The slight downside or a cancelled order is that you have to accept the colour. I would have been happy with the standard white, or possibly metallic red. My GRY was pearlescent white, which is OK, but not worth paying 900 quid for in my opinion. Anyway, beggars can’t choosers. 36.5 K with the circuit pack and paint. They’ve gone up a couple of grand since the launch as well.
So what do I think of the GR Yaris? From the get-go it feels special and different from typical performance cars. It has a sort of tough, industrial feel to it, which is probably because it’s a bespoke rally car. The gear change is positive, but again feels tough. Quite hefty but positive steering. The suspension is very effective, but bouncy (lots of travel needed for a rally car).
I was surprised how good the engine is. It sounds fantastic when you cane it, and it really revs out. You don’t feel short changed in any way by having a 3 cylinder, 1.6 litre under the bonnet.
The brakes are massive and awesome, and I honestly think it looks amazing.
Lastly, it’s very comfortable, with supportive seats, and it’s well equipped. People can be a bit snobby about Toyotas, not as much soft touch plastics, etc, but it’s a very solid, well screwed together car.
And to drive it hard? It’s still not full run-in (1000k recommended by Toyota), so I’m trying not to red-line it, but it’s a car that can be driven very fast indeed across cold and wet B roads, and it takes it all in it’s stride. Very satisfying to drive quickly.
Negative points? Well, it’s sort of has too much grip. Even if you turn all driver aids off, put it in sport mode (70 power to the rear), the tyres don’t move even in wet, cold conditions. That’s good because it’s safe, and it’s fun having the confidence to drive so quickly, but it would be nice if were more playful. That was also one of the main criticisms of the Audi S1, which didn’t have switchable power delivery, but I guess it’s a feature of 4WD cars generally. The ride is very bouncy unless you’re on a smooth road. Gets irritating after a while. If I were going to keep mine long term, I would spring for the Litchfield fitted Nitron suspension.
If you take passengers in the rear, then it’s a bit cramped, particularly if they are over average height. Boot is very small too. It’s a bit noisy, but that comes with the rally car territory in my view.
One thing I don’t have a problem with, is the seat height and forwards view. I think all the reviews I’ve read have been critical about the seat height and perceived lack of visibility due to the high position of the infotainment screen. I honestly don’t get it. I’m not short at just under 6 foot, and I find nothing wrong with the seat height or visibility. I don’t even have the seat in its lowest position. Because the GRY is essentially a rally car, it is relatively tall for a performance car. I don’t see the point of having the seat fittings lowered either. You wouldn’t then have as good view of the road ahead.
And versus the Audi S1? The GRY is an unapologetic rally special. The S1 is a city car fitted with a 4WD and a powerful engine.
The S1 is, of course, a much better day-to-day car. You can take rear passengers without a problem (you can have rear doors if you want, too). It also has a much more comfortable ride (unless you’re in sport mode). The S1 is, of course, not as focussed a performance car as the GRY. There are no special diffs, for example, but in terms of point-to-point speed across country, there’s really not much in it. The S1 honestly doesn’t feel much slower across a twisty country route than the GRY. It weights a bit more than the GRY, and is down on power by nearly 30 BHP, although it has nearly 10 lbs/ft more torque.
Even though I’m a GR Yaris owner and fanboy, I would happily (and still might), get another Audi S1.
I think I will keep the GRY for a year or so, and then get something with a bit more finesse. In my book that means either a Cayman R, or a used Alpine A110 (at nearly 2 metres a bit too wide for my liking).
Edited by Zencat on Thursday 9th February 11:16
Edited by Zencat on Thursday 9th February 11:20
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