Discussion
Evening all,
some of you may remember that I had my engine rebuilt to 4.7 spec which resulted in this power out put when mapped.
This equated to this when tested at Surrey Rolling Road.
Then this year I decided to update my ECU to the latest MBE with Knock sensing and wideband lambda control and it ended up with this at the rear wheels.
So now for a question, before I take it down to Surrey Rolling Road in January what do people think this new set of numbers will equate to as the Surrey Rolling road flywheel numbers?
some of you may remember that I had my engine rebuilt to 4.7 spec which resulted in this power out put when mapped.
This equated to this when tested at Surrey Rolling Road.
Then this year I decided to update my ECU to the latest MBE with Knock sensing and wideband lambda control and it ended up with this at the rear wheels.
So now for a question, before I take it down to Surrey Rolling Road in January what do people think this new set of numbers will equate to as the Surrey Rolling road flywheel numbers?
spitfire4v8 said:
It was just reminding me of how threads used to start back in the day .. some of the old timers will know what I'm on about 
as you were
Are the old arguments about different rolling roads and how to calculate the fly vs wheel numbers, you mean all that old guff?as you were
That is why I posted up the pre-upgrade numbers so people could see the data from SRR and Powers.
gruffalo said:
spitfire4v8 said:
It was just reminding me of how threads used to start back in the day .. some of the old timers will know what I'm on about
as you were
Are the old arguments about different rolling roads and how to calculate the fly vs wheel numbers, you mean all that old guff?as you were
That is why I posted up the pre-upgrade numbers so people could see the data from SRR and Powers.
Just as a note.. If it is mapped properly it won't make any extra power between ECUs.. Max power is just how much air you can get in, and fueling and timing to suit.
The bit in between will be different. Part throttle/lambda, plus extra fuel sites. All knock sensing will do is pull power out for bad fuel compared to a car properly mapped for the same fuel.
The bit in between will be different. Part throttle/lambda, plus extra fuel sites. All knock sensing will do is pull power out for bad fuel compared to a car properly mapped for the same fuel.
FarmyardPants said:
IIRC it ran quite rich at SRR and presume it was remapped with the new ECU.
In theory you should get 432.5 * ( 434.3 / 396.23 ) = 474 at SRR
edit: I bet it feels rapid now!
Yes it was very rich and had no lambda control because it kept burning them.In theory you should get 432.5 * ( 434.3 / 396.23 ) = 474 at SRR
edit: I bet it feels rapid now!
The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fuelling much better hence the increase in power.
The car certainly does feel a whole load better and is very responsive to throttle inputs.
gruffalo said:
Yes it was very rich and had no lambda control because it kept burning them.
The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fuelling much better hence the increase in power.
If it wasn't running right at SRR, then it will make a bit more for sure now it has been fixed.The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fuelling much better hence the increase in power.
Jhonno said:
gruffalo said:
Yes it was very rich and had no lambda control because it kept burning them.
The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fueling much better hence the increase in power.
If it wasn't running right at SRR, then it will make a bit more for sure now it has been fixed.The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fueling much better hence the increase in power.
The difference in the fuel is partly down to the lambdas and also the new ECU has many more mapping points and has a lot more processing power in it. The knock sensors also allow the ignition timing to be set more aggressively but safely. there is a big difference in how the car feels now.
I will get it on the rollers at SRR and see what it reads there.
gruffalo said:
Jhonno said:
gruffalo said:
Yes it was very rich and had no lambda control because it kept burning them.
The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fueling much better hence the increase in power.
If it wasn't running right at SRR, then it will make a bit more for sure now it has been fixed.The new ECU uses wide band lambda and they seem OK so far and should control the fueling much better hence the increase in power.
The difference in the fuel is partly down to the lambdas and also the new ECU has many more mapping points and has a lot more processing power in it. The knock sensors also allow the ignition timing to be set more aggressively but safely. there is a big difference in how the car feels now.
I will get it on the rollers at SRR and see what it reads there.
WOT is just air/fuel and spark though, and iirc the original MBE has less sites but does extrapolate between them.
Set more aggressively, but ultimately wont make any difference over a well mapped car, based on like for like fuel etc. It's more of a safety feature.
Will be interesting to see what it runs. I know yours has always made good power.
Jhonno said:
The working widebands will make a massive difference to part throttle and mid range running for sure, the processor power will help it handle that.
WOT is just air/fuel and spark though, and iirc the original MBE has less sites but does extrapolate between them.
Set more aggressively, but ultimately wont make any difference over a well mapped car, based on like for like fuel etc. It's more of a safety feature.
Will be interesting to see what it runs. I know yours has always made good power.
Well on the rolling road at powers it has made 40bhp difference from when they mapped it a few years ago to now.WOT is just air/fuel and spark though, and iirc the original MBE has less sites but does extrapolate between them.
Set more aggressively, but ultimately wont make any difference over a well mapped car, based on like for like fuel etc. It's more of a safety feature.
Will be interesting to see what it runs. I know yours has always made good power.
gruffalo said:
Well on the rolling road at powers it has made 40bhp difference from when they mapped it a few years ago to now.
Getting it on Surrey Rolling road will tell all as you had it done there recently.. Although someone said above it was running rich, which would reduce power. Unless that is just mid range where it was running lambda less.The improvement in general driving is very much an ECU/Wideband lambda thing though! Should be much sharper and use less fuel.
Max power shouldn't be affected by the ECU though all being equal. It's just about giving the car enough fuel and spark to match the airflow. That doesn't change between ECUs.
Yes if it was very rich at SRR last time then it will certainly make more now .. I think you said it was in the 10s AFR at some points.
The new MBE doesn't have any more load sites I don't think (16) but has a 16bit map so finer resolution on the numbers in the map. Maybe not so important on a normally aspirated engine but if you have a 1000hp turbo engine you'd be grateful of being able to finely manipulate the idle/light cruise and still fuel for the full power stuff.
You can usefully move the rpm sites around in the later ecus though, something you can't do on the tvr versions .. they are fixed at 250rpm intervas which is fine for the most part.
On my cerb I have it mapped at 200rpm intervals. I'm on emerald though.
What will be interesting though is if your car does make anything like 470 hp at surrey why do so many 4.7s struggle to even make 400 ?
The new MBE doesn't have any more load sites I don't think (16) but has a 16bit map so finer resolution on the numbers in the map. Maybe not so important on a normally aspirated engine but if you have a 1000hp turbo engine you'd be grateful of being able to finely manipulate the idle/light cruise and still fuel for the full power stuff.
You can usefully move the rpm sites around in the later ecus though, something you can't do on the tvr versions .. they are fixed at 250rpm intervas which is fine for the most part.
On my cerb I have it mapped at 200rpm intervals. I'm on emerald though.
What will be interesting though is if your car does make anything like 470 hp at surrey why do so many 4.7s struggle to even make 400 ?
spitfire4v8 said:
Yes if it was very rich at SRR last time then it will certainly make more now .. I think you said it was in the 10s AFR at some points.
The new MBE doesn't have any more load sites I don't think (16) but has a 16bit map so finer resolution on the numbers in the map. Maybe not so important on a normally aspirated engine but if you have a 1000hp turbo engine you'd be grateful of being able to finely manipulate the idle/light cruise and still fuel for the full power stuff.
You can usefully move the rpm sites around in the later ecus though, something you can't do on the tvr versions .. they are fixed at 250rpm intervas which is fine for the most part.
On my cerb I have it mapped at 200rpm intervals. I'm on emerald though.
What will be interesting though is if your car does make anything like 470 hp at surrey why do so many 4.7s struggle to even make 400 ?
Does you emerald run knock sensors too? Just curious as I was recommended to upgrade my Ecu but the price is somewhat eye-watering. I saw your emeralds seem more competitive. The new MBE doesn't have any more load sites I don't think (16) but has a 16bit map so finer resolution on the numbers in the map. Maybe not so important on a normally aspirated engine but if you have a 1000hp turbo engine you'd be grateful of being able to finely manipulate the idle/light cruise and still fuel for the full power stuff.
You can usefully move the rpm sites around in the later ecus though, something you can't do on the tvr versions .. they are fixed at 250rpm intervas which is fine for the most part.
On my cerb I have it mapped at 200rpm intervals. I'm on emerald though.
What will be interesting though is if your car does make anything like 470 hp at surrey why do so many 4.7s struggle to even make 400 ?
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff