Reasonable deductions from rental deposit
Discussion
All,
I'm looking for some input from experienced landlords, with regards to some deductions from a rental deposit on a private flat.
The tenant was in situ for 6 years. Before they moved in, the flat was redecorated, new carpets etc.
During the inventory visit, as well as the expected wear and tear, the following was found-
- Numerous cigarette burns to the carpets in the living room/ lounge area
- door handles pulled off
- shower rail broken, held together with cable ties/tape
- Lamp shades broken/missing
The flat was also very dirty, and will require a deep clean by professional cleaners.
My question is around what is reasonable for the landlord to charge for the above?
e.g. the carpet will need replacing due to the cigarette burns. What % of the replacement charge is reasonable to deduct from the deposit?
There doesn't seem to be any official guidance, but any input would be appreciated.
I'm looking for some input from experienced landlords, with regards to some deductions from a rental deposit on a private flat.
The tenant was in situ for 6 years. Before they moved in, the flat was redecorated, new carpets etc.
During the inventory visit, as well as the expected wear and tear, the following was found-
- Numerous cigarette burns to the carpets in the living room/ lounge area
- door handles pulled off
- shower rail broken, held together with cable ties/tape
- Lamp shades broken/missing
The flat was also very dirty, and will require a deep clean by professional cleaners.
My question is around what is reasonable for the landlord to charge for the above?
e.g. the carpet will need replacing due to the cigarette burns. What % of the replacement charge is reasonable to deduct from the deposit?
There doesn't seem to be any official guidance, but any input would be appreciated.
I never charge for things I can fix or replace cheaply, like door handles and lamp shades, especially if i've been lucky to get 6 years uninterrupted rent.
I do expect (and have in the tenants agreement) to have the unit fully cleaned upon hand over, or a £150 charge for a professional outfit to do the work will be levied.
Cigarette burns, are definitely not accepted wear and tear. (I have a no smoking policy) Tenant will pay in full for that.
I do expect (and have in the tenants agreement) to have the unit fully cleaned upon hand over, or a £150 charge for a professional outfit to do the work will be levied.
Cigarette burns, are definitely not accepted wear and tear. (I have a no smoking policy) Tenant will pay in full for that.
The TDS advise a medium quality carpet to last for 5-8 years so at 6 years they would deem that at near replacement age and would be unlikely to award much of the cost.
https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/up...
I find with deposit deductions you are better off going low and getting the tenant to agree. If you go high and the tenants dispute and it goes to adjudication the landlord always comes off worse.
If its going to cost £500 to replace the carpet, I would ask for £100 and hope they agree. I doubt you will get anymore then that from the TDS or any alternative deposit scheme adjudication.
https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/wp-content/up...
I find with deposit deductions you are better off going low and getting the tenant to agree. If you go high and the tenants dispute and it goes to adjudication the landlord always comes off worse.
If its going to cost £500 to replace the carpet, I would ask for £100 and hope they agree. I doubt you will get anymore then that from the TDS or any alternative deposit scheme adjudication.
Just out of interest, whilst we're on the subject. If the landlord failed to do a full inventory and the photos taken showing the condition are sparse and of low quality and fail to adequately display the condition of many of the rooms, fixtures or furnishings; what chance do they have of successfully arguing damage/wear and tear at the end of a tenancy?
Thanks for the replies. I think the main issue is the cigarette burns , more than 20 of them, which is hard to overlook. Interesting the differing opinions on reasonable amounts to pass on- replacement looks to be around £550.
As an aside, would/should the rental payment record affect the amount? I.e. If a tenant was late with rent, or asked for discounted rent have any bearing on latitude given?
As an aside, would/should the rental payment record affect the amount? I.e. If a tenant was late with rent, or asked for discounted rent have any bearing on latitude given?
They don’t sound the most house proud of tenants.
I’d be quite upset with a carpet full of burns so would make a deduction for ‘cigarette damage to carpets’ - supply the proof and go in high, the wear and tear doesn’t matter here. Claim for each room in full which needs a new carpet. Even more so if the contract says no smoking.
For the broken handles and lamp shades - I’d claim for materials and you can fit yourself.
This all presumes you have a signed inventory from when they moved in...
I’d be quite upset with a carpet full of burns so would make a deduction for ‘cigarette damage to carpets’ - supply the proof and go in high, the wear and tear doesn’t matter here. Claim for each room in full which needs a new carpet. Even more so if the contract says no smoking.
For the broken handles and lamp shades - I’d claim for materials and you can fit yourself.
This all presumes you have a signed inventory from when they moved in...
Jumpy Guy said:
Thanks for the replies. I think the main issue is the cigarette burns , more than 20 of them, which is hard to overlook. Interesting the differing opinions on reasonable amounts to pass on- replacement looks to be around £550.
As an aside, would/should the rental payment record affect the amount? I.e. If a tenant was late with rent, or asked for discounted rent have any bearing on latitude given?
Nope.As an aside, would/should the rental payment record affect the amount? I.e. If a tenant was late with rent, or asked for discounted rent have any bearing on latitude given?
Iwantafusca said:
What’s your smoking policy ? Do you have anything in the contract re the cleanliness of the property on handing back ?
The contract says that smoking is not permitted, and that the property should be clean before handover.A cleaning guide, which outlines 'wear and tear', and the expected level of cleaning was sent to the tenant when they handed in their notice.
The property is very dirty , the cleaner mentioned it was amongst the worst they'd seen this year.
The bigger issue is the carpet, which will cost £550 to replace. Would a charge of £150 seem reasonable?
We sold our house but hadn't found a replacement so rented, via an agent, a property owned by two sisters in their 60s.
On moving in the property was reasonably clean but not up to our standard. A full inventory was provided to us plus photos of existing damage. A few light bulbs were blown & only one front door key. I phoned the sisters & was told to replace all blown bulbs & to get 2 keys cut - they would pay. Paid money into my account the same day I emailed the invoices.
We looked after the property and they came to inspect 2 days before we moved out. They commented it was cleaner than when we moved in & the lawns looked in better condition; gave me a cheque returning our deposit. They also returned the rent for the 3 weeks of the month left & bought our cooker from us as it was much better than the one they had provided.
They now send us Xmas cards.
We only acted as we would expect any tenant to act but they, and their agent, seemed to think we were highly unusual. Perhaps being house owners for over 40 years did give us a different attitude to many tenants.
On moving in the property was reasonably clean but not up to our standard. A full inventory was provided to us plus photos of existing damage. A few light bulbs were blown & only one front door key. I phoned the sisters & was told to replace all blown bulbs & to get 2 keys cut - they would pay. Paid money into my account the same day I emailed the invoices.
We looked after the property and they came to inspect 2 days before we moved out. They commented it was cleaner than when we moved in & the lawns looked in better condition; gave me a cheque returning our deposit. They also returned the rent for the 3 weeks of the month left & bought our cooker from us as it was much better than the one they had provided.
They now send us Xmas cards.
We only acted as we would expect any tenant to act but they, and their agent, seemed to think we were highly unusual. Perhaps being house owners for over 40 years did give us a different attitude to many tenants.
I assume you have a check out report?
How good is your original inventory - does it include plenty of photos, and a full description of condition and cleanliness for each item? Unfortunately many landlords see an inventory as a box ticking exercise and look for the cheapest provider.
With the cleaning, submit the cleaner's invoice and go for the full amount, but don't be suprised if if the tenant disputes and you aren't awarded the full amount by the deposit scheme. Likewise, go for the full amount on the damaged capet, but aain don't be suprised if you don't get the full amount. Any items you can fix yourself, just claim for materials
How good is your original inventory - does it include plenty of photos, and a full description of condition and cleanliness for each item? Unfortunately many landlords see an inventory as a box ticking exercise and look for the cheapest provider.
With the cleaning, submit the cleaner's invoice and go for the full amount, but don't be suprised if if the tenant disputes and you aren't awarded the full amount by the deposit scheme. Likewise, go for the full amount on the damaged capet, but aain don't be suprised if you don't get the full amount. Any items you can fix yourself, just claim for materials
I'm a landlord and work as a refurbishment consultant for a large estate agency so feel well qualified to answer the question.
I take as granted that you have a very thorough check in and check out inventory report, as without this you won't have much of a leg to stand on.
Depending on carpet quality as mentioned higher up the thread I would think the carpet would be at the end of its useful life anyway. Requesting up to £150 for the cigarette burns seems reasonable to me given the no smoking policy. Bear in mind if it goes to the TDS it's very possible you'll get less or nothing at all so you are better off going for a figure the tenant is likely to agree to.
With locks and lampshades I would charge a nominal amount to get the replaced and do the work yourself. Shower rail is a tough one as most aren't that well made anyway so could have failed even with perfect tenants after that length of time.
Professional clean should definitely be deducted though.
I take as granted that you have a very thorough check in and check out inventory report, as without this you won't have much of a leg to stand on.
Depending on carpet quality as mentioned higher up the thread I would think the carpet would be at the end of its useful life anyway. Requesting up to £150 for the cigarette burns seems reasonable to me given the no smoking policy. Bear in mind if it goes to the TDS it's very possible you'll get less or nothing at all so you are better off going for a figure the tenant is likely to agree to.
With locks and lampshades I would charge a nominal amount to get the replaced and do the work yourself. Shower rail is a tough one as most aren't that well made anyway so could have failed even with perfect tenants after that length of time.
Professional clean should definitely be deducted though.
I wouldn’t worry about a few hundred £’s. I assume you’ve had 6 years rent from your tenants.
If you go to dispute you’ll get nothing and It’ll take hours of your time preparing date stamped photographs and collating all your check in reports, you might get an answer quickly but whenever we’ve done it it takes many months. If you cannot produce the required evidence you’ll be on the back foot.
I’d refurbish the property and get it let, after 6 years perhaps a rent review is due so maybe after a few months you’ve got some of your costs back.
Good luck.
If you go to dispute you’ll get nothing and It’ll take hours of your time preparing date stamped photographs and collating all your check in reports, you might get an answer quickly but whenever we’ve done it it takes many months. If you cannot produce the required evidence you’ll be on the back foot.
I’d refurbish the property and get it let, after 6 years perhaps a rent review is due so maybe after a few months you’ve got some of your costs back.
Good luck.
Edited by V1SAE on Friday 11th December 12:06
The TDS states that you can’t gain from `betterment`. So there is no chance in claiming for a replacement carpet.
If I where you, I’d discuss the damage with the tenant and agree on a couple of hundred to cover the carpet and clean. Anything more and it goes to arbitration, you’ll possibly end up with less, and as quoted above, you will spend hours on admin sorting the claim.
Most replacement landlords carpets are only 5.99m2 plus fitting, so you’ll probably get a new one for £300.
If I where you, I’d discuss the damage with the tenant and agree on a couple of hundred to cover the carpet and clean. Anything more and it goes to arbitration, you’ll possibly end up with less, and as quoted above, you will spend hours on admin sorting the claim.
Most replacement landlords carpets are only 5.99m2 plus fitting, so you’ll probably get a new one for £300.
jammy-git said:
Just out of interest, whilst we're on the subject. If the landlord failed to do a full inventory and the photos taken showing the condition are sparse and of low quality and fail to adequately display the condition of many of the rooms, fixtures or furnishings; what chance do they have of successfully arguing damage/wear and tear at the end of a tenancy?
Virtually no chanceTDS are evidence based
dmsims said:
jammy-git said:
Just out of interest, whilst we're on the subject. If the landlord failed to do a full inventory and the photos taken showing the condition are sparse and of low quality and fail to adequately display the condition of many of the rooms, fixtures or furnishings; what chance do they have of successfully arguing damage/wear and tear at the end of a tenancy?
Virtually no chanceTDS are evidence based
jammy-git said:
Good, that's what I like to hear. I moved from one property to another belonging to the same landlady. They stung me for several things move out of the previous property (and several that were completely fair and I was happy to pay). I paid in full to keep the peace and not make things too awkward for me living in the new place. They also have a reputation for doing this as I know several of the previous tenants who have had the same issue. Good to know that when it inevitably happens when I move out of my current place and I just tell them to go do one.
May be a good idea to compile your own date stamped inventory, as proof. In a couple of months time I'm going to let out the flat I have lived in for 9 years. This thread is putting me off a bit! Horrible thought that the first tenant could be a heavy smoker and ruin all the decoration and stink out the carpet and curtains.
I've had the same carpet for 9 years and it's like new, but I've always had a strict no shoe rule whilst I've lived here.
I've had the same carpet for 9 years and it's like new, but I've always had a strict no shoe rule whilst I've lived here.
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