VW ID 4 - Autogeful Review

[zayn]

conclusion : still a poor user experience of infotainment system. Still lacking android auto and augmented reality.

VW really need to invest in hiring quality software developers but probably already realised the best in silicon Valley already work for Tesla

https://youtu.be/2I9k1D_9v60

[DuncanM23]

zayn said:

VW really need to invest in hiring quality software developers but probably already realised the best in silicon Valley already work for Tesla

Why do VW care about the best in silicon valley? Secondly, are you sure that they all work at Tesla, rather than Alphabet, Apple, Cisco, EA, eBay, Facebook, etc?

[jjwilde]

zayn said:

conclusion : still a poor user experience of infotainment system. Still lacking android auto and augmented reality.

VW really need to invest in hiring quality software developers but probably already realised the best in silicon Valley already work for Tesla

https://youtu.be/2I9k1D_9v60

Friend of mine works over there and I've been getting little bits of gossip about what's been going on. It's even MORE of a stshow than they are letting on re their IT situation. Apparently there are major issues with the graphics drivers, so it's running a lot through software rendering.

Apparently the higher ups just have no clue how important this stuff now is due to Tesla, they seem to think they can just throw in some hardware from years ago with 512MB of RAM etc. so the new hardware on these cars is not well know or supported and they are trying to catch Tesla who have a 10 year lead with their OS.

I'm trying to find out more from him.

Edited by jjwilde on Friday 11th December 15:09

[Dave Hedgehog]

zayn said:

conclusion : still a poor user experience of infotainment system. Still lacking android auto and augmented reality.

VW really need to invest in hiring quality software developers but probably already realised the best in silicon Valley already work for Tesla

https://youtu.be/2I9k1D_9v60

tesla's infotainment is ste, no car play or andriod auto, no buttons for critical functions and a 2005 2D sat nav thats maps are at least a year out of date lol

[Zcd1]

Dave Hedgehog said:

tesla's infotainment is ste, no car play or andriod auto, no buttons for critical functions and a 2005 2D sat nav thats maps are at least a year out of date lol

I don't miss Car Play or Android Auto at all, and the maps are updated much more regularly than in any other automotive infotainment system I've seen...

Tesla's UI isn't without its failings (for example: voice-to-text support ain't great, the on board mp3/4 music player is rudimentary) but on balance I find that it makes all other automotive infotainment systems look hopelessly disjointed and quaint by comparison.

Back on topic, the idea that VW is struggling with in-car tech is no surprise to me at all. None of the legacy mfrs. appears to have realized that everyone would be better off leaving UIs to a UI specialist and not trying to develop one in-house.

Edited by Zcd1 on Friday 11th December 16:32

[Mouse Rat]

I don't think a screen on a dashboard has much relevance to how good a car is.
It's not a laptop.

[hyphen]

jjwilde said:

zayn said:

conclusion : still a poor user experience of infotainment system. Still lacking android auto and augmented reality.

VW really need to invest in hiring quality software developers but probably already realised the best in silicon Valley already work for Tesla

https://youtu.be/2I9k1D_9v60

Friend of mine works over there and I've been getting little bits of gossip about what's been going on. It's even MORE of a stshow than they are letting on re their IT situation. Apparently there are major issues with the graphics drivers, so it's running a lot through software rendering.

Apparently the higher ups just have no clue how important this stuff now is due to Tesla, they seem to think they can just throw in some hardware from years ago with 512MB of RAM etc. so the new hardware on these cars is not well know or supported and they are trying to catch Tesla who have a 10 year lead with their OS.

I'm trying to find out more from him.

Edited by jjwilde on Friday 11th December 15:09

VW's software is currently developed by 3rd parties. They have recently setup 'Car.Software' which is their new standalone division to develop their own OS in-house to serve across VAG. https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/stories/we-...

[Richard-D]

Mouse Rat said:

I don't think a screen on a dashboard has much relevance to how good a car is.
It's not a laptop.

That was my take from the OP. So long as the 'infotainment' functions I really couldn't care less. I care about various aspects of a car based on its intended use. They could be, performance, reliability, cost/economy, load capacity, tow weight, off road ability etc etc. If I made a list it wouldn't even occur to me to put 'infotainment' on it. I don't see how anyone could review a car or watch a review and only comment on that.

[kambites]

As long as it ultimately gets Android Auto (which by all accounts it will) I'd be happy with it. It'd be nice if they gave it some proper buttons rather than the touch sensitive rubbish they use on the ID3, though.

I do like that yellow colour.

ETA: Not convinced by the styling though, the back especially looks weird. Seems like it'll make a very capable family car though, which I suppose is the point.

Edited by kambites on Friday 11th December 17:41

[MDL111]

Mouse Rat said:

I don't think a screen on a dashboard has much relevance to how good a car is.
It's not a laptop.

Yup the one in my car failed - I still have radio and if I need to go somewhere I don’t know, I look at a map on my phone and then at road sign. The car drives pretty well though

[ChocolateFrog]

I wish there was a no cost option to remove the infotainment screen entirely and just give me a nicely engineered phone holder.

[dvs_dave]

Richard-D said:

Mouse Rat said:

I don't think a screen on a dashboard has much relevance to how good a car is.
It's not a laptop.

That was my take from the OP. So long as the 'infotainment' functions I really couldn't care less. I care about various aspects of a car based on its intended use. They could be, performance, reliability, cost/economy, load capacity, tow weight, off road ability etc etc. If I made a list it wouldn't even occur to me to put 'infotainment' on it. I don't see how anyone could review a car or watch a review and only comment on that.

Agreed. Rather bizarre that the OP’s most important takeaway from the review worth starting a thread on was that the infotainment system isn’t as good as a Tesla’s. Erm, ok.

Nothing about it being a great drive, etc.

FWIW, Apple CarPlay is better than them all so these days it’s largely wasted effort for an OEM to put a ton of work into it. It’ll never be as good.

[kambites]

Sounds like it's a really, really good car, with one minor niggle which can probably be fixed with a software update.

The glowing reviews of the chassis of these MEB platform cars if very encouraging.

[Mr E]

ChocolateFrog said:

I wish there was a no cost option to remove the infotainment screen entirely and just give me a nicely engineered phone holder.

It’s what the VW up did.

[rxe]

ChocolateFrog said:

I wish there was a no cost option to remove the infotainment screen entirely and just give me a nicely engineered phone holder.

This. I don’t get this obsession with infotainment. I have a phone. It plays music that I like because I put it there (or subscribed to it). When I get into the car, I want whatever was playing on my phone to come out of the speakers in the car. My phone also has my calendar - so when I have to go somewhere, I’ve already got the postcode in Waze. If I stop the car and do the last leg by public transport (or walk) Waze continues to guide me,

My 20 year old Alfa Romeo can do this with the simple addition of a Bluetooth radio. Not sure what is so hard....

[hyphen]

The type of people who are willing to pay to continually change cars every 2 years on lease/finance, are the types who are catered for. Hence infotainment.

[SWoll]

rxe said:

This. I don’t get this obsession with infotainment. I have a phone. It plays music that I like because I put it there (or subscribed to it). When I get into the car, I want whatever was playing on my phone to come out of the speakers in the car. My phone also has my calendar - so when I have to go somewhere, I’ve already got the postcode in Waze. If I stop the car and do the last leg by public transport (or walk) Waze continues to guide me,

My 20 year old Alfa Romeo can do this with the simple addition of a Bluetooth radio. Not sure what is so hard....

I'd suggest it's because people buying a new car from a premium manufacturer in 2020 expect rather more than that. The fact you're happy using a relatively tiny phone screen is fine but the market has moved past that and with ever increasing restrictions on phone use whilst driving in the UK people are going to need to be more and more careful whilst doing so.

The level of functionality offered is also not the biggest issue, it's poorly designed and unresponsive systems. I remember test driving an i-Pace when they first launched and was really put off by the infotainment system. Slow, glitchy, unresponsive and hard to navigate which for one of the key touch points on a £60k+ vehicle really isn't acceptable.

[Blue Oval84]

SWoll said:

rxe said:

This. I don’t get this obsession with infotainment. I have a phone. It plays music that I like because I put it there (or subscribed to it). When I get into the car, I want whatever was playing on my phone to come out of the speakers in the car. My phone also has my calendar - so when I have to go somewhere, I’ve already got the postcode in Waze. If I stop the car and do the last leg by public transport (or walk) Waze continues to guide me,

My 20 year old Alfa Romeo can do this with the simple addition of a Bluetooth radio. Not sure what is so hard....

I'd suggest it's because people buying a new car from a premium manufacturer in 2020 expect rather more than that. The fact you're happy using a relatively tiny phone screen is fine but the market has moved past that and with ever increasing restrictions on phone use whilst driving in the UK people are going to need to be more and more careful whilst doing so.

The level of functionality offered is also not the biggest issue, it's poorly designed and unresponsive systems. I remember test driving an i-Pace when they first launched and was really put off by the infotainment system. Slow, glitchy, unresponsive and hard to navigate which for one of the key touch points on a £60k+ vehicle really isn't acceptable.

Phones are ok, but to be honest I'd be loathed to have a car where my phone was the main option, messing about with cradles and things so that I can see Waze or change the music. I much prefer either the full integration of Tesla, or a wire-free android auto, but that isn't all that common it seems.

I find that Volvo have done ok in their efforts to keep the infotainment relevant on my S80 with a 2012 designed system, obviously the nav interface itself is hopelessly out of date if you relied on it alone, but the app does a great job of keeping it functioning like a system from the last couple of years.

If I've got something with an address in my google calendar, then I can open up the OnCall app and it already knows where I'm going and when, click a button and it pings it into the car's nav, so that when I get in, the car already knows where I'm off to. Likewise if I'm looking for an address I can either use the sluggish in car interface, or just open the app and send it straight into the nav using google maps from within the app. If I'm feeling really lazy then I can also push a button and get a real human to look up what I'm after and send it into the car (only used it twice when I've been driving, in a hurry, and needed to programme a completely new nav destination all at the same time!)

The main thing for me is that I can avoid having to mess about with cradles, 90% of the time I don't even need to get my phone out of my pocket.

Likewise it always connects the Bluetooth audio automatically, so Spotify is always playing where it left off without me having to get my phone out.

[kambites]

Android Auto (and probably Apple Carplay, although I've never used it) is great, but I'd still want physical buttons and/or knobs for key controls like volume and next track. Capacitive buttons on a car interface seems to me to be the worst of both worlds - you can't easily use them by feel but you don't have the flexibility of UI of having everything built into a screen.

IMO what manufacturers, certainly manufacturers of high-end cars, should be doing is adding a few fully customisable knobs and buttons with small screens in the middle of them so you can change their purpose and have the icon update to whatever use you've chosen.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 13th December 10:42

[rxe]

SWoll said:

I'd suggest it's because people buying a new car from a premium manufacturer in 2020 expect rather more than that. The fact you're happy using a relatively tiny phone screen is fine but the market has moved past that and with ever increasing restrictions on phone use whilst driving in the UK people are going to need to be more and more careful whilst doing so.

The level of functionality offered is also not the biggest issue, it's poorly designed and unresponsive systems. I remember test driving an i-Pace when they first launched and was really put off by the infotainment system. Slow, glitchy, unresponsive and hard to navigate which for one of the key touch points on a £60k+ vehicle really isn't acceptable.

To be honest, they are mad to expect that a will compete with a phone in terms of capability or usability We think that car OS are glitchy and unreliable precisely because we are exposed to the cutting edge of UI design, in many cases refreshed yearly with the latest processors. My phone is a £1000 marvel of technology, which is probably more than the manufacturing budget for the engine in the average car. Even the best in car system will feel woefully awful after a few years.

I drive quite a lot of cars, and I don’t want to learn the quirks of each one - I know IOS, I can get it to do what I want, and whenever I get in a car, the only thing I ever look for is the Bluetooth connection, and off we go.

As to the practicalities of using a phone, then the variants of CarPlay are the right answer. Same UI as the phone, any subscriptions and capabilities come from the phone, but properly attached to the dash. Though I’ve never needed to bother, I’ve got excellent voice recognition on the phone, no need to physically fiddle with it - change the music, change the destination, all can be done with ease.