Are Renault Zoes hideously expensive to run?

[rxe]

I’m thinking of getting one for my 90 year old mum. She’d like the stop/go simplicity, she can charge from home and her mileage is trivial, so no issues with a “small battery” car.

The sweet spot for me seems to be a battery owned 22kWh 56 plate - depending on mileage, between £8500 and £10,000, So far so good.

Perusing a few threads on SpeakEV has got me worried.

These seem to carry a JLR style warning of “if you don’t have a car with a maintained warranty, run away”. Write offs for anything moderately technical going wrong, up to £1000 for charge socket.

If you want the warranty, then you have servicing costs that make an Alfa Romeo cam belt change seem cheap. Brake fluid changes for £350, coolant changes are similar.

£300 for a mains plug adapter seems rude, they don’t seem to come with them.

Everyone on here seems to claim that they have low running costs, so are the denizens of SpeakEV just a bunch of wusses who go to the dealer for everything, or are these as fraught as they look?

[jjwilde]

The Leaf certainly seems the more reliable car. Early Zoes just seem a bit of an unfinished nightmare unless you have a decent local indie garage which can work on them.

[rxe]

I did consider a Leaf, but it is bigger than the Vauxhall Vectra Estate that she currently drives. The idea was to get her something smaller! Just seen that I wrote 56 page, should be 65 plate - so about 4 years old.

Edited by rxe on Sunday 13th December 22:11

[Mikebentley]

I know there are a variety of batteries and therefore ranges and was looking at EBay today at these. A new one is £33k approx but some are on at £7.5 to £9k. I believe these may have been £18k new but it does take some working out.

[BertBert]

I probably shouldn't tempt fate but we have a 3.5 year old Zoe which seems pretty reliable. 21k miles.

Not perfect. So far in 3 years it's had a new 12v battery plus two front lower suspension arms as the bushes had worn. I probably wouldn't have expected those things in that short a time. But it's been far more reliable than other new cars I've had.

Bert

[giveitfish]

I have an early one, from 2014. Had it for 12 months/7k miles and no issues to report whatsoever...touch wood!

This bit seems to be true:

rxe said:

...servicing costs that make an Alfa Romeo cam belt change seem cheap. Brake fluid changes for £350, coolant changes are similar.

It is just a car at the end of the day though, Halfords should be able to sort brakes and coolant. All the non-electric bits are basically off a Clio.

I bought the cheapest I could find and took the risk. You can get them for £5k now, the extra you're thinking of paying would cover 5 years of battery rental so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I don't think the Zoe will save money in your scenario though, a nice Yaris could probably do a better job for less.

[rxe]

Yaris has been considered .... but all modern small autos seem to have clutched gearboxes driven by automation. They’re jerky at low speeds which is exactly where she would hate it. She really values the “creep” of an old slush box auto. A Jazz CVT is an option. I’ve driven a VW Up! with a clutched auto and it was fecking horrible.

We’re not doing this to save money in particular. An EV power train will give her what she wants. But I don’t really want to hand her something that is ruinously expensive to run.

[SWoll]

rxe said:

I did consider a Leaf, but it is bigger than the Vauxhall Vectra Estate that she currently drives.

Edited by rxe on Sunday 13th December 22:11

Surely not? They're smaller than a Focus according to google?

[jjwilde]

SWoll said:

rxe said:

I did consider a Leaf, but it is bigger than the Vauxhall Vectra Estate that she currently drives.

Edited by rxe on Sunday 13th December 22:11

Surely not? They're smaller than a Focus according to google?

The Leaf is a much bigger car than it appears, it's like an optical illusion. I managed to put a fridge & freezer in the back with the seats down.

[rxe]

Leaf length - 4.49 metres
Vectra B Estate - 4.49 meters

(According to Google)

The Leaf is quite a bit wider too.

I was amazed.

[giveitfish]

rxe said:

Yaris has been considered .... but all modern small autos seem to have clutched gearboxes driven by automation. They’re jerky at low speeds which is exactly where she would hate it. She really values the “creep” of an old slush box auto. A Jazz CVT is an option. I’ve driven a VW Up! with a clutched auto and it was fecking horrible.

We’re not doing this to save money in particular. An EV power train will give her what she wants. But I don’t really want to hand her something that is ruinously expensive to run.

All makes sense. They are surprisingly nice cars to drive for what they are, very easy to drive smoothly (except for the brakes which are poorly calibrated) but still nippy at town speeds. Auto lights and wipers, reversing sensors and camera too. Very easy to live with.

I guess she'd also appreciate the fact that they are quite tall cars so getting in and out is very easy.

I've just been speaking to a main dealer about a 2017 car and they include a 1 year Renault warranty in the price. The big costs of fluid changes are not every year so you could ask about that. Otherwise there isn't a lot of servicing to be done.

[Sheepshanks]

rxe said:

A Jazz CVT is an option.

Do your own research for details but the later Jazz, mk3, had some level of touch screen controls depending on trim level that the old people really don’t like. A later mk2 should be fine, although Jazz’s aren’t without issues as they get older.

[Heathwood]

I leased one for 2 years from around 2015. On the one hand there’s not much expensive gear to go wrong, just the battery pack, motor and the gubbins that connect the two together. On the other hand all those components failed on mine within 3,000 miles and was off the road for a couple of months. No idea of the cost as it was dealt with by Renault, but the experience does put me off running one, or anything similar, without a warranty.

[rxe]

Sheepshanks said:

Do your own research for details but the later Jazz, mk3, had some level of touch screen controls depending on trim level that the old people really don’t like. A later mk2 should be fine, although Jazz’s aren’t without issues as they get older.

Yes. My general approach with touch screens would be to set the HVAC to 20C, automatic and then stick cardboard over it. Though she is distinctly impressed with the idea of a reversing camera - she does think the fact that the lines on the screen change depending on where the steering wheel is. .... is akin to sorcery. Given that she has a stiff neck and hates reversing, this will be great. She’ll be doing j-turns in Waitrose car park next....

Yes - tall car is good. She’ll like that.

I suspect the answer may be to get a Renault warranty (£240 a year, can be extended yearly for 10 years) and find a decent independent to service.

[SWoll]

rxe said:

Leaf length - 4.49 metres
Vectra B Estate - 4.49 meters

(According to Google)

The Leaf is quite a bit wider too.

I was amazed.

That's the current Leaf. The 2015 model is 50mm shorter and only wider due to having normal mirrors (unlike the Vectra B). It's also quite a bit taller than the Vectra and has larger doors than the Zoe so easier to get in and out of for a 90 year old than either?

Japanese used electrics v French. Tough call.

[InitialDave]

Maybe try a Yaris hybrid? A couple of friends have them, and I've driven them a fair bit, they're not overly inspiring, but I think they'd fit what you need.

I did have a Zoe for several years, but I'm not sure I'd have kept it outside warranty.

[MrGTI6]

rxe said:

Yaris has been considered .... but all modern small autos seem to have clutched gearboxes driven by automation.

All Yaris autos from about 2012 onwards are CVT. They ditched the awful "MMT" automated manual with the launch of the third-gen Yaris.

A Yaris hybrid would be a good shout, though a 1.3 petrol would be a lot cheaper and just as suitable by the sounds of it.

And if your mum's Vectra estate needs a new home then I might be interested!

[dvs_dave]

rxe said:

Yaris has been considered .... but all modern small autos seem to have clutched gearboxes driven by automation. They’re jerky at low speeds which is exactly where she would hate it. She really values the “creep” of an old slush box auto. A Jazz CVT is an option. I’ve driven a VW Up! with a clutched auto and it was fecking horrible.

We’re not doing this to save money in particular. An EV power train will give her what she wants. But I don’t really want to hand her something that is ruinously expensive to run.

What about an e-Up! or an e-Golf? They essentially share the same electrical gubbins (rated differently but the same kit) and the rest of the car is common to the non electric version, so plentiful and anywhere can work on them.

[Tophatron]

Have you considered a Kia Soul EV? They’re only slightly longer than a Zoe but seem to have a higher driving position which might suit an older person more.

7 year warranty too and Kia reliability is very good.

[TooLateForAName]

One point with early (pre 50kwh models) Zoes is that the battery packs are leased and you have an ongoing £59/month charge on them. You can buy out the lease - cost dependent on age/battery size and there was a non-lease version badged as 'i-' as in i-dynamic nav rather than dynamic nav. But be aware that about 95% of the cars listed for sale as i-models aren't.

The battery lease does get you recovery and long term warranty on the battery but its hard to see hem holding value as they age and prices fall. £500+ per year gets significant.