Pension transfer
Discussion
My wife has a stakeholder pension with Aviva and recently started working as a teaching assistant in a local state school. Back in August we started the process to transfer her Aviva pension into the Local Government Pension Scheme. Here we are now in December and still the transfer has not been done. The Local Government people seem to be dragging their heels and have now requested a form (Aviva member declaration) which apparently has to be supplied by Aviva and filled in by my wife. Aviva have never heard of this form!
I am getting somewhat frustrated with the process where Aviva and the Local Government people will not speak to each other directly. Just to make matters worse the local government department is working on reduced hours (because covid, convenient excuse) which makes it very difficult for my wife to call them as their working hours are exactly the same as hers.
Having never dealt with anything like this before does it usually take this long to transfer a pension? Has anyone done this and got any advice (from the way the council are behaving it certainly seems we my be the first to have ever transferred a pension in!).
I am getting somewhat frustrated with the process where Aviva and the Local Government people will not speak to each other directly. Just to make matters worse the local government department is working on reduced hours (because covid, convenient excuse) which makes it very difficult for my wife to call them as their working hours are exactly the same as hers.
Having never dealt with anything like this before does it usually take this long to transfer a pension? Has anyone done this and got any advice (from the way the council are behaving it certainly seems we my be the first to have ever transferred a pension in!).
There are many planned transfers that are taking longer than usual. This has been the case since March 2020.
It does not help that many people consider a transfer as a push button exercise that will take a day or two: not the case, because the transfer processes take a lot longer. And if the amount is coming from a final salary plan and exceeds £30,000 it is necessary for the person to have obtained independent financial advice and to certify such. More and more IFAs are turning down this business due to the cost of insuring for it.
Another issue is that the transferring arrangement will always want their own documentation fully completed before they will go ahead with the transfer. They will not accept anybody else's documentation and on many occasions the process has to start again once this is realised.
As regards your wife's case, I suspect the Aviva pension is not final salary so the £30,000 issue will not apply. I am surprised that the LGPS is asking for a completed Aviva form: what is that form called and what is its purpose?
Is your wife thinking that the transfer value may have reduced due to the time being taken, and if so, is she thinking of asking Aviva to make up the possible loss? If she is, it won't happen: her entitlement is to the transfer as calculated at the date it is paid, and no other date. She will not have suffered any actual financial loss: she would have had a loss of financial expectation. In these circumstances, and if there has been maladministration, she might be entitled to compensation for non financial injustice.
I reckon that your wife should make a formal complaint against Aviva, maybe the LGPS too if there's been problems with them. If she is not content with the outcome, she can go to the office of the Pensions Ombudsman and ask them to investigate her complaint. See here:
https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/
There is an online form available. Your wife, if she does not get a good response from Aviva, should complete the form and the office of the Pensions Ombudsman will take it from there. Do not post the form: their office is closed and one or two staff go to the office once a week simply to deal with regular mail. Doing everything online/by e mail is much better for now. Note that your wife must make a complaint against Aviva, LGPS, or maybe both, and received their response before she can take matters further to the Pensions Ombudsman. If she doe not do so, the Pensions Ombudsman will reject her complaint on the grounds that the respondent(s) have not had an opportunity to consider the complaint and their responses to it.
R.
It does not help that many people consider a transfer as a push button exercise that will take a day or two: not the case, because the transfer processes take a lot longer. And if the amount is coming from a final salary plan and exceeds £30,000 it is necessary for the person to have obtained independent financial advice and to certify such. More and more IFAs are turning down this business due to the cost of insuring for it.
Another issue is that the transferring arrangement will always want their own documentation fully completed before they will go ahead with the transfer. They will not accept anybody else's documentation and on many occasions the process has to start again once this is realised.
As regards your wife's case, I suspect the Aviva pension is not final salary so the £30,000 issue will not apply. I am surprised that the LGPS is asking for a completed Aviva form: what is that form called and what is its purpose?
Is your wife thinking that the transfer value may have reduced due to the time being taken, and if so, is she thinking of asking Aviva to make up the possible loss? If she is, it won't happen: her entitlement is to the transfer as calculated at the date it is paid, and no other date. She will not have suffered any actual financial loss: she would have had a loss of financial expectation. In these circumstances, and if there has been maladministration, she might be entitled to compensation for non financial injustice.
I reckon that your wife should make a formal complaint against Aviva, maybe the LGPS too if there's been problems with them. If she is not content with the outcome, she can go to the office of the Pensions Ombudsman and ask them to investigate her complaint. See here:
https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/
There is an online form available. Your wife, if she does not get a good response from Aviva, should complete the form and the office of the Pensions Ombudsman will take it from there. Do not post the form: their office is closed and one or two staff go to the office once a week simply to deal with regular mail. Doing everything online/by e mail is much better for now. Note that your wife must make a complaint against Aviva, LGPS, or maybe both, and received their response before she can take matters further to the Pensions Ombudsman. If she doe not do so, the Pensions Ombudsman will reject her complaint on the grounds that the respondent(s) have not had an opportunity to consider the complaint and their responses to it.
R.
Thanks for the replies. It is not a final salary pension she is transferring, nor is it over 30k.
It is definitely a local government pension, I guess because she is a teaching assistant not a qualified teacher.
The Local Government people are asking for an "Aviva Members Declaration", which they say is supplied by Aviva and completed by my wife before being sent to the Local Government people. She has rung Aviva and they have never heard of this form. She is going to try to ring the Local Government people and speak to them today but if she gets nowhere we will, as suggested, be making complaints to both sides.
This whole process seems very antiquated.
It is definitely a local government pension, I guess because she is a teaching assistant not a qualified teacher.
The Local Government people are asking for an "Aviva Members Declaration", which they say is supplied by Aviva and completed by my wife before being sent to the Local Government people. She has rung Aviva and they have never heard of this form. She is going to try to ring the Local Government people and speak to them today but if she gets nowhere we will, as suggested, be making complaints to both sides.
This whole process seems very antiquated.
Update, so we filled out the member declaration and sent it off. Today we received a Transfer out Warranty form from Aviva which must be filled out by the local government pension people. Thinking I recognised the form it is the same one we sent by email to the local government people on 20/09/20 and the acknowledged receipt of. It seems the whole process has been started again!
Can anyone offer any idea of what is going on, we seem to being going round in circles!!
Can anyone offer any idea of what is going on, we seem to being going round in circles!!
The warranty, quite often called the Receiving Scheme Warranty, is a form that is to be completed by the trustees/administrators/providers of the pension plan into which the transfer is to be paid. The receiving plan "warrants" certain general information about the plan and it in effect provides guarantees to the plan from which the transfer is to be paid out.
From what you say, it looks to me that Aviva are processing your wife's transfer bit by bit: they seem to be asking/requiring forms to be completed in succession. More enlightened firms these days provide a transfer pack of all the information and forms with instructions for their completion, by which party, and what to do with them. (Things still go wrong/take time though!).
The bottom line is that Aviva are not going to make the transfer until they have got all the forms completed as required and returned to them.
R.
From what you say, it looks to me that Aviva are processing your wife's transfer bit by bit: they seem to be asking/requiring forms to be completed in succession. More enlightened firms these days provide a transfer pack of all the information and forms with instructions for their completion, by which party, and what to do with them. (Things still go wrong/take time though!).
The bottom line is that Aviva are not going to make the transfer until they have got all the forms completed as required and returned to them.
R.
The upside is pretty much doubles projected annual income post retirement.
Update, Aviva sent us more copies of the forms we have already filled in, I have forwarded these to the Council people. The council people confirm these are not the forms they need. Aviva still deny any knowledge of the form the Council require, council cannot provide an example of the form they require or tell me what info is on it.
Complaints made to both Aviva and council...
Update, Aviva sent us more copies of the forms we have already filled in, I have forwarded these to the Council people. The council people confirm these are not the forms they need. Aviva still deny any knowledge of the form the Council require, council cannot provide an example of the form they require or tell me what info is on it.
Complaints made to both Aviva and council...
All I can say is LGPS are some of the most inefficient and antiquated pension arrangements known to man.
Groups or various local government depts getting together , not to improve economies or efficiencies as hoped, but to have bun fights with each other on a daily basis about how things should be done.
Good luck
Groups or various local government depts getting together , not to improve economies or efficiencies as hoped, but to have bun fights with each other on a daily basis about how things should be done.
Good luck
Todays update is that the council have now decided that one of the forms we sent them IS the one they require, it's not called the customer declaration form or this discharge form but is an Aviva form headed Transfer Form... which on the first line says to fill it in and return it to Aviva, which we did months ago. That will teach us to follow instructions.
This is painful!
This is painful!
I’m just looking into transferring an old pension (coincidentally also with an insurer - RSA - as they are in the process of being bought and I’d like it all in the same place where I have a bit more control). Literally only just looking into it for the first time tonight, will likely get some advice as very confusing. It’s a defined benefit scheme that I haven’t paid into since 2007, but the ‘guaranteed transfer value’ is a lot higher than I would have expected on the face of it. Does anyone know if that is the value that would be transferred in.. I.e. the pot I have with my current provider would increase by that amount, or is it more complex than that?
TomDcs said:
I’m just looking into transferring an old pension (coincidentally also with an insurer - RSA - as they are in the process of being bought and I’d like it all in the same place where I have a bit more control). Literally only just looking into it for the first time tonight, will likely get some advice as very confusing. It’s a defined benefit scheme that I haven’t paid into since 2007, but the ‘guaranteed transfer value’ is a lot higher than I would have expected on the face of it. Does anyone know if that is the value that would be transferred in.. I.e. the pot I have with my current provider would increase by that amount, or is it more complex than that?
You have said that the proposed transfer is from a DB plan. You do not have what you describe as a pot in the DB plan. That term applies to a DC plan.
If you have been quoted a transfer value (commonly called a capital equivalent transfer value or CETV), it will be guaranteed for three months. So, you have three months to complete the transfer, otherwise the CETV as calculated will lapse. If then recalculated it could go up or down. Note that you have an automatic right to have a CETV calculated once in a twelve months period. This also means that if you have a quote, fail to complete the transfer within the three months, you do not have a right to get another quote for 12 months. The DB plan managers can refuse your request, or require you to pay the cost of them providing you with a new CETV quote.
I have answered your specific questions. There are many other things that could be said but as you are going to get advice I'll say no more.
Good luck with finding an IFA willing to take you on: they are disappearing due to professional indemnity insurance costs rises, partly related to the past quality of advice given about transfers such as yours and the consequences.
R.
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