Is an M2 (non-Competition) a Step Up?
Discussion
Morning all. Sorry if this is a bit wordy, but here goes.
I’ll be looking to change cars in 9-12 months time and am struggling to pick what to go for.
I currently have 17 plate m140i. I do love most of it and, having previously had a (proper) m135i, I’ve obviously got a tendency towards this sort of car. I often go for hot hatches as well, having had a second gen Swift Sport, Ibiza FR (the supercharged and turbocharged one), an FN2 Civic Type R and a Mini JCW, as well as a 225 mk1 TT (not strictly a hot hatch, but the platform of one). I’ve also had some boat like cars (Audi A5 and a Saab 93 turbo) so am not averse to something larger, but didn’t really get on with the handling and numbness of these two.
I’m now approaching my mid 30s (sigh) and think I want something a bit more grown up, but still a good driver’s car. I’ve considered all sorts, from C63, E9x M3, VXR8, Stinger and Lexus IS F, to an X4 35d, to a new M235i grand coupe (I know, but decent PCP deals).
I’m now wondering if an early M2 would feel like a step up from the M140i. The 1 series has the M Performance exhaust so has all the aural excitement you could want, as well as having a bit more torque than the M2 (when it isn’t on overboost) as far as I can tell, but it isn’t necessarily that “special” since it looks like my neighbour’s 118d. I suppose this could be part of its sleeper charm, though.
Basically, I wondered, as above, if the M2 would hold my interest, or what other cars people would recommend with a budget of around £25k (or about £350-400 per month with a deposit of £1-2k - this could be pcp, he or a loan. I’m not fussed over leasing as I change my car too often).
Bit about personal situation to help:
I don’t have kids and don’t plan on doing so, so practicality in that regard isn’t a huge issue, but I’m a building Surveyor so need to fit various PPE, collapsible ladders etc in the boot (or the back seats if the boot is tiny). With Covid, I’m working from home, but when I do venture into work it’s only a 6 mile commute from suburb to city, so mpg isn’t a huge concern.
I’ll be looking to change cars in 9-12 months time and am struggling to pick what to go for.
I currently have 17 plate m140i. I do love most of it and, having previously had a (proper) m135i, I’ve obviously got a tendency towards this sort of car. I often go for hot hatches as well, having had a second gen Swift Sport, Ibiza FR (the supercharged and turbocharged one), an FN2 Civic Type R and a Mini JCW, as well as a 225 mk1 TT (not strictly a hot hatch, but the platform of one). I’ve also had some boat like cars (Audi A5 and a Saab 93 turbo) so am not averse to something larger, but didn’t really get on with the handling and numbness of these two.
I’m now approaching my mid 30s (sigh) and think I want something a bit more grown up, but still a good driver’s car. I’ve considered all sorts, from C63, E9x M3, VXR8, Stinger and Lexus IS F, to an X4 35d, to a new M235i grand coupe (I know, but decent PCP deals).
I’m now wondering if an early M2 would feel like a step up from the M140i. The 1 series has the M Performance exhaust so has all the aural excitement you could want, as well as having a bit more torque than the M2 (when it isn’t on overboost) as far as I can tell, but it isn’t necessarily that “special” since it looks like my neighbour’s 118d. I suppose this could be part of its sleeper charm, though.
Basically, I wondered, as above, if the M2 would hold my interest, or what other cars people would recommend with a budget of around £25k (or about £350-400 per month with a deposit of £1-2k - this could be pcp, he or a loan. I’m not fussed over leasing as I change my car too often).
Bit about personal situation to help:
I don’t have kids and don’t plan on doing so, so practicality in that regard isn’t a huge issue, but I’m a building Surveyor so need to fit various PPE, collapsible ladders etc in the boot (or the back seats if the boot is tiny). With Covid, I’m working from home, but when I do venture into work it’s only a 6 mile commute from suburb to city, so mpg isn’t a huge concern.
There won't be much in it, in terms of power and straight-line performance, but it'll be the handling and the way it puts the power down that will be night and day. So, it depends on what kind of driving you like or do the most. It's definitely a step up either way. It's still a nice and relatively comfy daily car too, but should be able to tackle track days and back-lane blasts in a completely different league and manner.
I went from an m140i to an M2 comp, it was a massive difference and I would imagine the same for a standard M2. The M2 is just so much more focused, it was the front end that surprised me the most, overall it made the M140i just feel like any other hatchback and has meant I am unlikely to ever go back to hot hatch ownership.
Thanks for the replies so far. It’s looking like a pretty resounding “yes”, it’s a step up, which is good to know. Also worth noting that I’d probably be looking for a manual M2, whereas the M140i is an automatic, so that would differentiate it a bit, too.
In terms of some of the other cars on the list, how do they compare? I’m thinking mainly C63 (w204 era), IS-F etc? I’d like a V8 but not at the expense of the whole package. If they feel much bigger than the M2, it might detract from the experience. There’s some very narrow road around my way! I don’t mind a car being larger, as long as it feels wieldy and fairly agile. Would something like an RS3 be worth considering, or would this be just another fast hatchback like the M140?
I think I’ve completed YouTube, mainly Joe Achilles, CarWow, Autocar and the like and that just makes me want most things!
In terms of some of the other cars on the list, how do they compare? I’m thinking mainly C63 (w204 era), IS-F etc? I’d like a V8 but not at the expense of the whole package. If they feel much bigger than the M2, it might detract from the experience. There’s some very narrow road around my way! I don’t mind a car being larger, as long as it feels wieldy and fairly agile. Would something like an RS3 be worth considering, or would this be just another fast hatchback like the M140?
I think I’ve completed YouTube, mainly Joe Achilles, CarWow, Autocar and the like and that just makes me want most things!
Depends where you place most importance. A non-comp M2 will likely be slower in a straight line than your M140i. But it should feel more 'special', look more purposeful and handle better.
You need to decide if it's worth the extra money - it won't be a totally different animal to your M140i, just a bit better in most areas (except engine).
You need to decide if it's worth the extra money - it won't be a totally different animal to your M140i, just a bit better in most areas (except engine).
nuttywobbler said:
Depends where you place most importance. A non-comp M2 will likely be slower in a straight line than your M140i. But it should feel more 'special', look more purposeful and handle better.
You need to decide if it's worth the extra money - it won't be a totally different animal to your M140i, just a bit better in most areas (except engine).
Thanks. Handling is important, but to be clear, I don’t mean in the sense that people say “handling” and they mean they’re getting the arse out on roundabouts and pulling off the petrol station forecourt sideways. I want to feel confident the car is going to do what I want it to, have a fair bit of grip and basically, go where I point it. The m140i is alright in this regard, but does get a bit annoying when pulling out of a damp junction. The auto box probably doesn’t help in this regard. When I can be arsed with the paddles, it’s much more planted pulling out in 2nd gear. You need to decide if it's worth the extra money - it won't be a totally different animal to your M140i, just a bit better in most areas (except engine).
If they’d done the xDrive m140i over here, I reckon that would be pretty much perfect.
What I’m after is a bit of a sense of occasion: nice engine note (not just a “sports” exhaust on a standard 4 cylinder), solid interior, nice looks and decent handling, grippy). I’m not going to be leaving two black lines every time I set off and definitely don’t want to be going all sideways. If I could stick the B58 engine in the Mini JCW (and make someone not crash into it and write it off this time!) I’d be laughing.
Edit: oh for a modern day r32.
jrock78 said:
In terms of other cars have you considered an Alfa Giulia. You can get the Veloce Version for around 25k great handling and performance and great looking car too.
They are lovely looking, but don’t think I would want one that wasn’t the Quadrifoglio (which is way above budget at the moment, unfortunately). I’m just not sure it would feel special enough. It’s basically a four door saloon with a four cylinder engine that somebody could get as a company car. I’d feel like a trendy sales rep. It'll be a step up from your M140 with it's handling & the way you can put the power down.
As for the other V8 N/A options they're special once you start working them they won't feel as instantly fast but they'll all be relentless in their acceleration.
The IS-F is the most compact out of the other options & once you've had one it'll really get under your skin, some people will tell you they lack torque they don't (it has similar torque numbers to an RS4/V8 M3/4) they just don't have as much as a blown 6 cylinder.
The other bonus with the IS-F is that there won't be another so their depreciation is minimal unlike the M2/3/4 but the BMWs's still depreciate slower than M140/240 which helps take the edge off the maintenance costs.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011256...
Now the C63 is a properly bombastic option the engine is weapons grade & the rest of the car is just epic also it has low down torque for fun.
Now there are a couple of things I'd recommend getting for the C63 & they are an LSD if the car you buy doesn't have one fitted, secondly get it remapped so you can get 100% throttle.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011276...
Edition 125
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011116...
Also consider the RS5:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011136...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011136...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006019...
Here are some reviews of used a used RS5 vs a new one but it gives you a better perspective than when they were new
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kf-2D1vge8
C63 review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLxzxsLf1g
As for the other V8 N/A options they're special once you start working them they won't feel as instantly fast but they'll all be relentless in their acceleration.
The IS-F is the most compact out of the other options & once you've had one it'll really get under your skin, some people will tell you they lack torque they don't (it has similar torque numbers to an RS4/V8 M3/4) they just don't have as much as a blown 6 cylinder.
The other bonus with the IS-F is that there won't be another so their depreciation is minimal unlike the M2/3/4 but the BMWs's still depreciate slower than M140/240 which helps take the edge off the maintenance costs.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008293...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011256...
Now the C63 is a properly bombastic option the engine is weapons grade & the rest of the car is just epic also it has low down torque for fun.
Now there are a couple of things I'd recommend getting for the C63 & they are an LSD if the car you buy doesn't have one fitted, secondly get it remapped so you can get 100% throttle.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011276...
Edition 125
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011116...
Also consider the RS5:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011136...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011136...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006019...
Here are some reviews of used a used RS5 vs a new one but it gives you a better perspective than when they were new
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kf-2D1vge8
C63 review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLxzxsLf1g
ZX10R NIN said:
lists and vids...
Oh good, I was hoping you’d show up!Good call on the RS5. Quattro is something that appeals as I’d definitely be able to put the power down, even when it’s cold or rainy. That black one is a lovely looking car.
I do love the Lexus as well, and its “lack of torque” really wouldn’t bother me. People bemoaned the FN2 Type R’s lack of grunt and I loved driving that.
Funnily enough I watched the C63 video you posted the day before yesterday, but kudos on posting the RS5 review vid. It’s one of the few YouTube car related videos I haven’t watched, so thanks for that.
I’m still none the wiser as to what I want. Everything that’s been mentioned has its positives!
M2
Positives: Proper M car, more special that 140, better handling, looks great
Negatives: slower straight line speed, maybe not quite different enough from what I have (similar interior, engine note etc.)
IS F
Positives: V8, reliable, not too big and unwieldy
Negatives: struggling to think of any. The only thing I can think of is that they make a silly beeping noise when you go near the rev limiter
C63
Positives: the noise, V8, the noise, looks (if I can find a coupé), that noise!
Negatives: hard to find somewhere to use its power, it might want to kill me, image - lots have been in the “wrong hands”
RS5
Positives: V8, four wheel drive, looks
Negatives: the cabin looks dated. Also, the A5 I had felt huge. Probably due to a combination of being sat low and the bonnet going on forever
Another couple of V8s I’d considered were an XKR or an XFR, but the latter is quite hard to find in budget. Again, not sure if these would be a bit big and bulky.
I can’t wait for the Covid to leave us alone so I can actually go out and test drive some stuff. Clearly this will be key.
I don't feel (as many others don't) that the non comp pack M2 is a true out and out M car.
It's not got an S derivative, M only engine for starters as it's a tuned N55. More of a budget M car until the CP turned up with the M3 engine.
I'll go against the grain and feel it's far too much extra dosh to go from an M140i to a non CP M2 for such minimal improvements for day to day driving.
Yeah it looks the part but for me I wouldn't bother unless you can stretch to an M3 or a CP M2.
It's not got an S derivative, M only engine for starters as it's a tuned N55. More of a budget M car until the CP turned up with the M3 engine.
I'll go against the grain and feel it's far too much extra dosh to go from an M140i to a non CP M2 for such minimal improvements for day to day driving.
Yeah it looks the part but for me I wouldn't bother unless you can stretch to an M3 or a CP M2.
ZX10R NIN said:
It'll be a step up from your M140 with it's handling & the way you can put the power down.
As for the other V8 N/A options they're special once you start working them they won't feel as instantly fast but they'll all be relentless in their acceleration.
The working thing might not suit...with a N/A ISF / RCF you don't get that instant shove....there's a reason M2 /M4 / C63 are obliterating any Lexus sales, sorry to say . Its a well worn story, people bailing out for that very reason. ISF prices are daft so we have a stagnant little pool that hasn't moved for six months, RCF trickling along being bought for daft money and part ex'd for peanuts....rinse repeat. As for the other V8 N/A options they're special once you start working them they won't feel as instantly fast but they'll all be relentless in their acceleration.
Latters said:
Oh good, I was hoping you’d show up!
Good call on the RS5. Quattro is something that appeals as I’d definitely be able to put the power down, even when it’s cold or rainy. That black one is a lovely looking car.
I do love the Lexus as well, and its “lack of torque” really wouldn’t bother me. People bemoaned the FN2 Type R’s lack of grunt and I loved driving that.
Funnily enough I watched the C63 video you posted the day before yesterday, but kudos on posting the RS5 review vid. It’s one of the few YouTube car related videos I haven’t watched, so thanks for that.
I’m still none the wiser as to what I want. Everything that’s been mentioned has its positives!
M2
Positives: Proper M car, more special that 140, better handling, looks great
Negatives: slower straight line speed, maybe not quite different enough from what I have (similar interior, engine note etc.)
IS F
Positives: V8, reliable, not too big and unwieldy
Negatives: struggling to think of any. The only thing I can think of is that they make a silly beeping noise when you go near the rev limiter
C63
Positives: the noise, V8, the noise, looks (if I can find a coupé), that noise!
Negatives: hard to find somewhere to use its power, it might want to kill me, image - lots have been in the “wrong hands”
RS5
Positives: V8, four wheel drive, looks
Negatives: the cabin looks dated. Also, the A5 I had felt huge. Probably due to a combination of being sat low and the bonnet going on forever
Another couple of V8s I’d considered were an XKR or an XFR, but the latter is quite hard to find in budget. Again, not sure if these would be a bit big and bulky.
I can’t wait for the Covid to leave us alone so I can actually go out and test drive some stuff. Clearly this will be key.
To be honest you won't know what you want until you get behind the wheels of your shortlist, the Jags are really good steers but they're might not be a sharp as what you seem to be looking for & if you're considering the XF-R then you should also look at these:Good call on the RS5. Quattro is something that appeals as I’d definitely be able to put the power down, even when it’s cold or rainy. That black one is a lovely looking car.
I do love the Lexus as well, and its “lack of torque” really wouldn’t bother me. People bemoaned the FN2 Type R’s lack of grunt and I loved driving that.
Funnily enough I watched the C63 video you posted the day before yesterday, but kudos on posting the RS5 review vid. It’s one of the few YouTube car related videos I haven’t watched, so thanks for that.
I’m still none the wiser as to what I want. Everything that’s been mentioned has its positives!
M2
Positives: Proper M car, more special that 140, better handling, looks great
Negatives: slower straight line speed, maybe not quite different enough from what I have (similar interior, engine note etc.)
IS F
Positives: V8, reliable, not too big and unwieldy
Negatives: struggling to think of any. The only thing I can think of is that they make a silly beeping noise when you go near the rev limiter
C63
Positives: the noise, V8, the noise, looks (if I can find a coupé), that noise!
Negatives: hard to find somewhere to use its power, it might want to kill me, image - lots have been in the “wrong hands”
RS5
Positives: V8, four wheel drive, looks
Negatives: the cabin looks dated. Also, the A5 I had felt huge. Probably due to a combination of being sat low and the bonnet going on forever
Another couple of V8s I’d considered were an XKR or an XFR, but the latter is quite hard to find in budget. Again, not sure if these would be a bit big and bulky.
I can’t wait for the Covid to leave us alone so I can actually go out and test drive some stuff. Clearly this will be key.
M6 Gran Coupe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012167...
M5 I know they're the same powertrain but I'd buy the M6 GC
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011286...
VXR8 every bit as much of a drivers car as the two M cars above with better depreciation & more sensible running costs, you'll pay more for a manual:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008272...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009103...
Manual
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012086...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011075...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006200...
The M2 for me seems to be a bit on the numb side it's the weak point of the car for me, out of the M range at 25k I'd be buying the M3 because (they're a rare sight but worth imo seeking out) it looks great & purposeful, it made me turn & look at it as I walked away BUT I didn't get on with it (that was because I still had my CLK63 to compare it too) on the flipside to that I have provided many to very happy clients so definitely test drive one but you will have to haggle & stretch the budget.
M3
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009023...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011206...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010134...
Now here's my leftfield option:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012086...
They're a cracking drivers car & for me they feel properly special the engine is a peach, the Gen1's are a bit rawer than the Gen2's but both are good & they're a rare sight too.
You've got a lot of test driving to do lol
lord trumpton said:
I don't feel (as many others don't) that the non comp pack M2 is a true out and out M car.
It's not got an S derivative, M only engine for starters as it's a tuned N55. More of a budget M car until the CP turned up with the M3 engine.
I'll go against the grain and feel it's far too much extra dosh to go from an M140i to a non CP M2 for such minimal improvements for day to day driving.
Yeah it looks the part but for me I wouldn't bother unless you can stretch to an M3 or a CP M2.
Plus the chairs.It's not got an S derivative, M only engine for starters as it's a tuned N55. More of a budget M car until the CP turned up with the M3 engine.
I'll go against the grain and feel it's far too much extra dosh to go from an M140i to a non CP M2 for such minimal improvements for day to day driving.
Yeah it looks the part but for me I wouldn't bother unless you can stretch to an M3 or a CP M2.
Have to admit I stood next to an M2 last week and it’s a great looking car and one I’ve considered too.
I think the closeness in performance to the M140 etc would put a lot of people off but not me personally, I never get sucked in to racing on the public roads.
It would be a tough choice for me between the M2 and M3 though, both awesome cars.
Chris Harris drives and rates the M2 with a few suspension tweaks and I’m a big fan of his.
About 21:30 in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7lD0PQBvg4
I think the closeness in performance to the M140 etc would put a lot of people off but not me personally, I never get sucked in to racing on the public roads.
It would be a tough choice for me between the M2 and M3 though, both awesome cars.
Chris Harris drives and rates the M2 with a few suspension tweaks and I’m a big fan of his.
About 21:30 in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7lD0PQBvg4
lord trumpton said:
I don't feel (as many others don't) that the non comp pack M2 is a true out and out M car.
It's not got an S derivative, M only engine for starters as it's a tuned N55. More of a budget M car until the CP turned up with the M3 engine.
I'll go against the grain and feel it's far too much extra dosh to go from an M140i to a non CP M2 for such minimal improvements for day to day driving.
Yeah it looks the part but for me I wouldn't bother unless you can stretch to an M3 or a CP M2.
I've not driven one, but while I agree it's not an "M" car based on the engine (and yet the 1M coupe is a classic...), that's not necessarily a bad thing - you still get the same drivetrain, suspension, LSD etc - but because of that they are much cheaper.It's not got an S derivative, M only engine for starters as it's a tuned N55. More of a budget M car until the CP turned up with the M3 engine.
I'll go against the grain and feel it's far too much extra dosh to go from an M140i to a non CP M2 for such minimal improvements for day to day driving.
Yeah it looks the part but for me I wouldn't bother unless you can stretch to an M3 or a CP M2.
You could almost call it an "M Lite" before that designation got taken over by the M135i.
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