NIP timescale query

[V8GEE]

So today 21/12/2020 i received and NIP through the post for an alleged offence of dangerous driving back in october 25th. From what i remember from that day i left a set of traffic lights enthusiastically i wont lie but it seams someone has reported me for it. Anyway am i not supposed to recieve this letter up to 14days of said offence. Its now nearly 2 months

Date of offence is 25/10/20
Date of nip is 17/12/20
Letter was posted 18/12/20
Letter recieved today 21/12/20

Thanks in advance

[paintman]

Is the vehicle registered in your name - i.e you and no-one else such as a lease or hire company is the registered keeper - and were the details correct and current at the time of the alleged offence?

[V8GEE]

paintman said:

Is the vehicle registered in your name - i.e you and no-one else such as a lease or hire company is the registered keeper - and were the details correct and current at the time of the alleged offence?

Yes all in my name ect. But my query is its well over the 14 days since offence. I have no problems filling the form out and sending it back ect. Ive read that after 14 working days it will be no good anyway.

[martinbiz]

V8GEE said:

So today 21/12/2020 i received and NIP through the post for an alleged offence of dangerous driving back in october 25th. From what i remember from that day i left a set of traffic lights enthusiastically i wont lie but it seams someone has reported me for it. Anyway am i not supposed to recieve this letter up to 14days of said offence. Its now nearly 2 months

Date of offence is 25/10/20
Date of nip is 17/12/20
Letter was posted 18/12/20
Letter recieved today 21/12/20

Thanks in advance

You need to reply to the S172 part within 28 days or face a separate charge of failing to give information, this is not affected by the fact that the NIP maybe out of time. The fact that it is dated 2 months after the offence rather than it just having arrived late is in your favour, but very unusual. It could well be that it is a report from a member of the public and the Police have only just been notified, rather than you being clocked at the time by a Police officer, in that case there is every chance there is some dashcam footage. Cheshire for example seem to be actively inviting people to grass up their fellow road users at the moment.

What is the date on your V5C in relation to the offence date?

Are any other possible offences mentioned, careless or DWDC for example?

Being totally honest, what does enthusiastic mean? was there another car involved, a traffic light drag race maybe? Just leaving a set of light under hard acceleration is unlikely to result in a NIP for DD

[Derek Smith]

If you think you are in the frame for the offence - not that I'm suggesting you've been circumspect with the details - I'd suggest you consider the option of seeking legal advice. Depending of comment of PH posters and what you think you've read is not the better option in my opinion.

[vonhosen]

You also won't know at this stage when the Police became aware of the allegation, if it's following a complaint from a member of the public. They may not have been made aware until sometime after the day of the alleged offence.

[V8GEE]

martinbiz said:

You need to reply to the S172 part within 28 days or face a separate charge of failing to give information, this is not affected by the fact that the NIP maybe out of time. The fact that it is dated 2 months after the offence rather than it just having arrived late is in your favour, but very unusual. It could well be that it is a report from a member of the public and the Police have only just been notified, rather than you being clocked at the time by a Police officer, in that case there is every chance there is some dashcam footage. Cheshire for example seem to be actively inviting people to grass up their fellow road users at the moment.

What is the date on your V5C in relation to the offence date?

Are any other possible offences mentioned, careless or DWDC for example?

Being totally honest, what does enthusiastic mean? was there another car involved, a traffic light drag race maybe? Just leaving a set of light under hard acceleration is unlikely to result in a NIP for DD

I will definatly reply to the 172 section without a doubt. This is the 1st time i have ever had anything like this. I have a clean licence for many years now previous being minor speeding offence.

No other car was involved its just a nice stretch of road from the lights to take off from wouldnt say i even broke the speed limit by much if i even did at all. I was definatly there at given date and time. Just reading so much conflicting evidence on the net about timescales. I wouldnt say a quick acceleration is a DD offence tbh my v5c is all up to date ive had my car for past 7yrs at same address ect.

[kestral]

Was the NIP sent by recorded/registered post?

[martinbiz]

OP, as Vonhosen correctly points out and I thought I had said in my post, the relevant notifications and time limitations to prosecute will move on to when the police were made aware of the the alleged offence, rather than the date of the offence as would be the norm. Hence my suggestion that it could be a report from a member of the public that has resulted in the 'late' NIP. If you were observed at the time by a Police officer then the normal 14 day limit should apply

I would wait and see what comes back after you have returned the S172 and if it seems that they are going to try and prosecute you for dangerous driving I would seek legal advice asap as has already been advised. DD carries the potential of a custodial sentence, if you qualify for legal aid it can be granted for DD

[martinbiz]

kestral said:

Was the NIP sent by recorded/registered post?

Why do you bang on about this all the time? You have been told numerous times there is no requirement to send it other than by normal first class post

[blueg33]

martinbiz said:

kestral said:

Was the NIP sent by recorded/registered post?

Why do you bang on about this all the time? You have been told numerous times there is no requirement to send it other than by normal first class post

Indeed, and its deemed served, unless you can demonstrate to the contrary (although proving that nothing arrived is a challenge!)

[SS2.]

kestral said:

Was the NIP sent by recorded/registered post?

This is of zero relevance.

[douglasb]

As has already been mentioned, the first NIP in the chain must be received by the registered keeper within 14 days unless it is not reasonably practical for the Police to do this. As has also been suggested, if the alleged incident was only notified to them after the 14 days that would be a defence for them. However there are a few other things to consider.

1 - Have you recently moved house and not updated your V5C (logbook) or did you purchase the car shortly before the alleged incident? In either case the first NIP would have gone to the last known registered keeper's address and this would satisfy the 14 day rule.

Next, dig out your V5C and take a look at it.

2 - Do you actually have the V5C? It isn't unknown for people to be sure that they are the owner but to find out that it is actually a finance/leasing company that own the vehicle and they don't have the V5C. Quick check - do you get notifications from DVLA about VED (Road Tax) and MOTs being due?

3 - Check the address on the V5C. Are there any mistakes in the address that might mean that you might not have received the first NIP? (eg Acacia Avenue v Acacia Drive).

It is extremely rare for a first NIP to be sent/dated more than 14 days after the police become aware of an alleged incident. Indeed, on the pepipoo forum it has been suggested that the software that generates the letters actually prevents out-of-time NIPs being generated in the first place. NIPs being generated in time but delayed in the post are a different matter but the dates that you mention say that you received the NIP four days after it was dated so it wasn't delayed in the post.

There would be no harm in enclosing a letter with your reply naming yourself pointing out that as the NIP was sent more than 14 days after the alleged event this is a bar to prosecution (although as already mentioned by martinbiz you need to reply to the S.172 request or you commit an offence carrying a large fine, 6 points and an offence code that insurers really don't like). This should get a reply saying that either they only became aware of the alleged incident on dd/mm/20 so it is in time or that the first NIP went to xxxxx because that was the registered keeper's address that was available to them at the time.

Edited by douglasb on Tuesday 22 December 08:27

[Tony1963]

53 days between the alleged offence and the NIP date. Blimey. So ‘if’ the NIP was raised in response to a complaint be a member of the public, that person sat on it for over five weeks?

I’d definitely be disappointed etc.

[semisane]

as an aside, surely any complaint by a member of the public would have to be backed up by evidence - ie dash cam ?

[martinbiz]

semisane said:

as an aside, surely any complaint by a member of the public would have to be backed up by evidence - ie dash cam ?

Not always, but very likely in this case, a single report by a member of the public saying "the bloke beside me screeched away in a cloud of tyre smoke and cut up 4 cars on the way" is unlikely to get too far without more evidence to back it up

[JNW1]

martinbiz said:

The fact that it is dated 2 months after the offence rather than it just having arrived late is in your favour, but very unusual. It could well be that it is a report from a member of the public and the Police have only just been notified, rather than you being clocked at the time by a Police officer, in that case there is every chance there is some dashcam footage. Cheshire for example seem to be actively inviting people to grass up their fellow road users at the moment.

On a separate thread a few weeks ago I asked how long the police had to prosecute someone using dashcam evidence supplied by a member of the public and the answer was up to 6 months for summary-only offences (such as speeding or careless driving); however, for indictable offences like dangerous driving I think there's potentially no time limit? I therefore suspect you may be right and that someone has submitted dashcam (or other video) footage of the OP and, having reviewed it, the relevant police force has decided to prosecute - that being the case the normal 14 day period for a NIP may not apply in this case?

Having said that, following your reference to Cheshire Police, out of idle curiosity I had a look on their website under the section for the online reporting of driving offences. A question it asks quite early in the process is did the offence happen within the last 10 days and if you answer "No" you then get the following message:


Thank you. By law, we can only serve a 'Notice of Intended Prosecution' to a registered keeper or owner of a motor vehicle within 14 days of an alleged offence.

Your report must be submitted within ten days of the alleged offence to allow us time to investigate.

As the incident you’re reporting took place more than ten days ago, we can't prosecute anyone involved.

You don't need to contact us about this incident.


So although legally they've got longer to investigate an offence using evidence supplied by a member of the public, it sounds like Cheshire Police are choosing not to do so and are instead suggesting the normal 14 day rule for a NIP applies. I suppose just because they take that stance doesn't mean other forces will follow suit but nevertheless it's interesting why they've chosen to take that approach; is it because they think a NIP issued outside of the normal 14 day period is more open to challenge and less likely to succeed?

[kestral]

martinbiz said:

Why do you bang on about this all the time? You have been told numerous times there is no requirement to send it other than by normal first class post

If a NIP is not sent by registered or recorded delivery and it arrives at the registered keepers address after 14 days it is out of time.

If it is sent by recorded or registered delivery and it arrives after 14 days it is still in time.

[kestral]

SS2. said:

This is of zero relevance.

No its not.

If the NIP was by registerd post and arrives after 14 days it is still valid.

If it sent by ordinary post and arrives after 14 days it is out of time.

[douglasb]

While that might be the case if the NIP was sent within 14 days of the offence and arrived late there is a 7 week gap between the offence and the date of the NIP. The NIP arrived 4 days after it was dated. Anything about recorded/registered delivery is irrelevant in this case.