My quest for a 996.1 GT3 CS LHD - suggestions welcome

[CorradoB]

Good evening everybody,

I have been reading most of this section over the past couple of years.

Once upon a time, in 2008, I was about to buy a 996.1 GT3 CS after having sold my beloved 993 C2 X51. Then as life is unpredictable I suddenly had to focus on something else, and just “postponed” the GT3 plan. Now, just twelve years later, I would like to execute that plan again .

I have been checking all the cars that have been published online recently (last 6 months) on AutoScout24, mobile.de etc but so far I couldn’t find the right one. One time is about the color, another time about the conditions, a few times about the price (of course none of those pricey ones has been switching hands in the meantime).

Since I know there are many PHers from mainland Europe, and based on positive relevant comments from other threads in terms of help in finding the right car, I have decided to bother you all .

As per the thread title, I am looking for a Mk1 996 GT3 LHD Clubsport (factory-original 003, not a “converted” touring)
- original cars in terms of aesthetics and mechanics (well would close an eye on a Manthey K400 or other sensible upgrades but no heavily modified cars)
- nearly every Colour except for black, violet, light blue, medium/dark gray. Speed yellow, dark blue (midnight,
Lapis...), green etc are usually in my shortlist
- sound conditions in terms of mechanics, interior and bodywork, good service history etc
- no crashed cars
- ideal mileage up to 70-80 thousand kilometers (not looking for a garage queen, but neither for an extremely high mileage). Might consider something more only in case the car is extremely tight, with some very serious maintenance done etc
- I am totally ok with tracked cars if they have been treated and maintained properly
- in terms of interior I am not a fan of painted console and details. Full leather and carbon fiber appreciated but not a must. Nomex recaro are simply beautiful to me. A/C is a must!!! (You will understand this from the geography paragraph)
- budget depends, but definitely not willing to overpay (the only online published cars that have been moving in the past 6 months appear to be those in the 50-65keur asking price range, and for a reason... all the rest is safely still).
- EU geography (Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium...), I am based in Spain and Italy.
Could also consider nearby non-EU countries but will need to take into account import tariffs and other extra costs, so this will have an impact on budget

Any advice especially on non-online-advertised cars would be truly precious. Many thanks in advance!!

Cheers,
Corrado

Edited by CorradoB on Monday 21st December 23:21

Edited by CorradoB on Monday 21st December 23:22

[ditchvisitor]

I know of the owner of this silver LHD CS that is for sale, well looked after car.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10922795?c...

[Cheburator mk2]

One thing I would say - do not discard modified cars. When I was looking for mine, I test drove a Swiss 996.1 CS. It was ex-Belgium and it had been tracked hard. It was on 50,000 kilometres and it had new engine and gearbox installed by Porsche Zentrum Koln at 40,000km. It was on its original, but freshly rebuilt Bilstein/Eibach coilovers. It drove fine, and I was about to pull the trigger, but by the time the logistics with transferring the cash was worked out, somebody French from across the border in Geneva beat me to it.

My quest then took me to Northern Germany, where I purchased my 996.1 CS. I ended up buying the first ever K400 made - Olaf Manthey was the original owner of my car. It has been quite modified - Cup chasis, 996.2 brakes, Cup Diff, Cup Diff Ratio 8:32, Cup gear sets, Cup synchros, Cup shifters, BBS LM, Cup radiator ducts and air exhaust, and I am sure a few other bits.

And all the better for it...

If you drive a K400 and then you drive a stock 996.1 CS I very much doubt you will want the latter. If you drive a 996.1 with a Cup final drive, you would definitely put that mod on your wish list too... And the list goes on and on.

I think with 996.1 CS the market is a funny one. If you want collectability, I think you have missed the boat, unless you pay good money. It is the original GT3 and it will only go one way. If you widen your search/ criteria you may get something... The Swiss car was Speed Yellow, which I loved, my current one is a boring Artic Silber, but a beggar couldnt be a chooser at the time...

P.S. The UK car listed above seems really good value, especially if an inspection shows that all is in order! The only "concern" would be the 100,000 kilometres, but if you are buying it with a view of long term ownership, it would be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...

Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 22 December 12:41

[Heathrow]

I would email all the usual suspects to ensure you are on their radar for LHD cars, which they occasionally stock.

I am South East based but off the top of my head your list could include JZM, RPM Technik, Nine Excellence, Paragon, Parr, 911 Virgin. I'm sure there are others too.

[CorradoB]

ditchvisitor said:

I know of the owner of this silver LHD CS that is for sale, well looked after car.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10922795?c...

Hello ditchvisitor,
thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I have "seen" this car online but I haven't contacted them (yet) due to the mileage which is a bit on the high side for what I was looking for (>110k km vs 70-80k), and silver which is not my top choice (although neither a color I would reject). I understand the true importance of good maintenance and getting access to previous owners to better understand the car's history, so I will take that into account.

Cheers,
Corrado

[993rsr]

CorradoB said:

ditchvisitor said:

I know of the owner of this silver LHD CS that is for sale, well looked after car.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10922795?c...

Hello ditchvisitor,
thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I have "seen" this car online but I haven't contacted them (yet) due to the mileage which is a bit on the high side for what I was looking for (>110k km vs 70-80k), and silver which is not my top choice (although neither a color I would reject). I understand the true importance of good maintenance and getting access to previous owners to better understand the car's history, so I will take that into account.

Cheers,
Corrado

I'd echo what DV said knowing the long term owner.

[CorradoB]

Cheburator mk2 said:

One thing I would say - do not discard modified cars. When I was looking for mine, I test drove a Swiss 996.1 CS. It was ex-Belgium and it had been tracked hard. It was on 50,000 kilometres and it had new engine and gearbox installed by Porsche Zentrum Koln at 40,000km. It was on its original, but freshly rebuilt Bilstein/Eibach coilovers. It drove fine, and I was about to pull the trigger, but by the time the logistics with transferring the cash was worked out, somebody French from across the border in Geneva beat me to it.

My quest then took me to Northern Germany, where I purchased my 996.1 CS. I ended up buying the first ever K400 made - Olaf Manthey was the original owner of my car. It has been quite modified - Cup chasis, 996.2 brakes, Cup Diff, Cup Diff Ratio 8:32, Cup gear sets, Cup synchros, Cup shifters, BBS LM, Cup radiator ducts and air exhaust, and I am sure a few other bits.

And all the better for it...

If you drive a K400 and then you drive a stock 996.1 CS I very much doubt you will want the latter. If you drive a 996.1 with a Cup final drive, you would definitely put that mod on your wish list too... And the list goes on and on.

I think with 996.1 CS the market is a funny one. If you want collectability, I think you have missed the boat, unless you pay good money. It is the original GT3 and it will only go one way. If you widen your search/ criteria you may get something... The Swiss car was Speed Yellow, which I loved, my current one is a boring Artic Silber, but a beggar couldnt be a chooser at the time...

P.S. The UK car listed above seems really good value, especially if an inspection shows that all is in order! The only "concern" would be the 100,000 kilometres, but if you are buying it with a view of long term ownership, it would be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...

Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 22 December 12:41

Hello Cheburator, thanks a lot for sharing your experience - extremely valuable.

In terms of modded cars I would like to avoid heavy upgrades, but I am more then open to things like the K400 which do not spoil, actually further enhance even the road driving experience. This most likely applies to other bits such as Mk2 brakes and shorter final ratio (given Porsche's appetite for long gearing this could be an addictive game-changer!), but not sure in my case it would apply to more hardcore upgrades outside of the racetrack. Anyway I would widen my radar and in case of doubts wait at least until the test drive .

I agree the "collectibility boat" (or train as we say in Italian) is already gone, nor this would be interesting to me as I plan to actually use and enjoy the car. I believe I could track it a bit but not too much (probably 2-4 TD/yr), and would like to have a fun with it even on the road. The limit I am putting on the mileage is more for "peace of mind" and overall conditions of the vehicle, rather than investment logics. It is true indeed that sometimes it is much better a higher mileage but very well cared car of proven reliability than a (presumably) lower mileage but "unmaintained" static object.

Thanks!
ciao
Corrado

[CorradoB]

Heathrow said:

I would email all the usual suspects to ensure you are on their radar for LHD cars, which they occasionally stock.

I am South East based but off the top of my head your list could include JZM, RPM Technik, Nine Excellence, Paragon, Parr, 911 Virgin. I'm sure there are others too.

Thanks Heathrow - haven't thought about that, will do!
Cheers,
Corrado

PS: hope we are not going to get insane tariffs on UK-imported used vehicles in 2021!

[CorradoB]

993rsr said:

I'd echo what DV said knowing the long term owner.

Ok, noted^2 thanks
if we continue this way I guess I'll have to start drafting an email soon
ciao
Corrado

[Heathrow]

No problem. C10 Swiss registered car for sale. Assume this is on your radar?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10477515

[CorradoB]

Heathrow said:

No problem. C10 Swiss registered car for sale. Assume this is on your radar?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10477515

Thanks, yes it is and I have already contacted them.
Very nice color as well. Unfortunately not a CS...

[MDL111]

I think 65k for a low(Ish) km 996.1 CS car in a good colour is a tough ask. From watching the 996 market for the last probably 4-5 years, cars do pop up from time to time at c. 70-75k asking price, but rarely below that (And quite a lot of them above that). I have not bought one yet, although they are still on my list of cars I would like to own at some point.
My RS has not aircon and while it is warm in summer (Austria), it is actually not unbearable (well I guess if you are in Southern Italy or Spain then that might be the case)
Good luck with the search

[Dammit]

The silver car looks great, however I just bought an E63 to lug the bikes around in though so my car budget has taken a hit that will take a little while to address.

[tracydeedance]

Looks like LHD GT3 cs gives options at a more reasonable budget.
Good hunting.

[Heathrow]

Corrado, just to challenge your criteria a little - what's your logic for Clubsport given you state you are open to cars that have higher mileage and been appropriately modified?

Obviously including comfort spec cars in your criteria will give you access to more cars to consider. As you'll know, many of the comforts have been modified in any case to add the best bits such as the cage and buckets.

OK it won't have the front cage, battery kill switch and fire extinguisher etc. but otherwise they are basically the same car (I'll now await the abuse from the cognoscenti )

[Cheburator mk2]

Heathrow said:

Corrado, just to challenge your criteria a little - what's your logic for Clubsport given you state you are open to cars that have higher mileage and been appropriately modified?

Obviously including comfort spec cars in your criteria will give you access to more cars to consider. As you'll know, many of the comforts have been modified in any case to add the best bits such as the cage and buckets.

OK it won't have the front cage, battery kill switch and fire extinguisher etc. but otherwise they are basically the same car (I'll now await the abuse from the cognoscenti )

They aren't - unless they have the mounting points for the CS cage - the rear Tequipment cage is non-structural, while the CS cage does tie down the rear of the car and the B-pillars.
No mounting points for the extinguisher
The light weight flywheel makes a big difference - many comforts may have been modified, but many haven't and it's a ball ache to do these days
No airbags in the doors
No rear speakers in the rear quarter panels
And I know it's strange, but a CS designation will always carry a cachet - witness 968CS vs 968 Sport vs 968, 928CS vs 928GT or Carerra 3.2 CS vs Carrera 3.2 etc

[Slippydiff]

This pretty much sums it up ^
The CS definitely has a certain cachet. A Tequipment cage just doesn't cut it unfortunately.

Now my old Mk1 comfort steer with Ohlins 3 way adjustables, Manthey K400 conversion, Mk2 6 pot calipers, Alcons, and a Clubsport rear cage, that most definitely did cut it ...

[993rsr]

Door airbags the giveaway to a non CS H.

[Slippydiff]

993rsr said:

Door airbags the giveaway to a non CS H.

Indeed JC, the CS ones are early 2.5 base 986 Boxster (and some say 996) items apparently.



The old girl was closer to a CS than a Comfort, the lightweight flywheel and rear cage saw to that !!

[Cheburator mk2]

993rsr said:

Door airbags the giveaway to a non CS H.

I wonder if the door bars on all CS cars have been removed at the factory? And I also wonder if the comforts had them or not? My CS doesnt have door bars inside the doors and I definitely was the first person ever to venture there to remove and replace the original failed window regulator....