Child access arrangements - Process if not maintained?
Discussion
This is in Scotland if it matters...
During divorce, I am not sure if always, you agree access formally. So there's something enshrined in writing at least saying you'll grant access for the kids on X days of the month etc.
What happens if the parent with custody refuses to release the children on those dates?
I mean, the police won't come knocking, so some sort of court action is raised, and then there's an order effectively, reminding the "main" parent to release the children?
What if the "main" parent then does it again? A cycle of "I'll do whatever I think is best", is there any punitive measure for a pattern of refusal?
During divorce, I am not sure if always, you agree access formally. So there's something enshrined in writing at least saying you'll grant access for the kids on X days of the month etc.
What happens if the parent with custody refuses to release the children on those dates?
I mean, the police won't come knocking, so some sort of court action is raised, and then there's an order effectively, reminding the "main" parent to release the children?
What if the "main" parent then does it again? A cycle of "I'll do whatever I think is best", is there any punitive measure for a pattern of refusal?
I guess that's my point.
Let's say Mum is primary caregiver, and doesn't release kids to Dad, but it's because Dad is not showing reasonable compromise on his days, i.e. Mum wants to take kids away on holiday for greater than a week, and this is Dad's time with them as per the divorce, but he won't reschedule.
The kids can't be taken away by the police.
So presumably Dad raises a court order, Mum has to appoint a solicitor defend her decision.
I'm curious where it goes from there really...
Let's say Mum is primary caregiver, and doesn't release kids to Dad, but it's because Dad is not showing reasonable compromise on his days, i.e. Mum wants to take kids away on holiday for greater than a week, and this is Dad's time with them as per the divorce, but he won't reschedule.
The kids can't be taken away by the police.
So presumably Dad raises a court order, Mum has to appoint a solicitor defend her decision.
I'm curious where it goes from there really...
The first assumptions about having to commit to some formal arrangement are not correct - you can divorce with children and have nothing more than an informal agreement about who has them and when. If one parent then reneges on the agreement there is nothing much the other can do without resorting to applying for a court order. Best seek legal advice from a Scottish solicitor.
Prof Prolapse said:
Let's say Mum is primary caregiver, and doesn't release kids to Dad, but it's because Dad is not showing reasonable compromise on his days, i.e. Mum wants to take kids away on holiday for greater than a week, and this is Dad's time with them as per the divorce, but he won't reschedule.
It sounds like a bit more talking and a bit more co-operation and compromise from both sides is called for. And certainly a lot less confrontation and definitely a lot less talk of courts and lawyers etc.Why not ask the kids what they want?
Prof Prolapse said:
This is in Scotland if it matters...
What if the "main" parent then does it again? A cycle of "I'll do whatever I think is best", is there any punitive measure for a pattern of refusal?
I've got this t-shirt... I can't comment on Scotland, assuming the same as England it's up to you to make an application to the family court. The only advice I can give you is try everything within reason to resolve this matter outside of court first, they don't like it when your in/out of there too much. Don't be afraid to represent yourself, sometimes going in with a solicitor, not only expensive but often less effective than a reasonable request from a father that just wants agreed child arrangement upheld.What if the "main" parent then does it again? A cycle of "I'll do whatever I think is best", is there any punitive measure for a pattern of refusal?
Get a years subscription to https://fnf.org.uk/ it will save you a fortune, lastly follow the process, don't loose your head and good luck. You have my sympathies, it gets better in time I promise.
I spent £100k on lawyers and it achieved very little.
Edited by markda on Wednesday 23 December 22:25
I'm not sure I know the terminology well enough, that's why I try and be loose and say "formally".
Divorce is being sought, in addition to finances, in Scotland I am told the court focuses more on the children so perhaps it differs elsewhere, in this instance the father wants the child access agreements documents.
As with the financial aspects, it is a binding agreement made by a court as part of the divorce process in this instance.
I am not sure if that constitutes a "court order".
Divorce is being sought, in addition to finances, in Scotland I am told the court focuses more on the children so perhaps it differs elsewhere, in this instance the father wants the child access agreements documents.
As with the financial aspects, it is a binding agreement made by a court as part of the divorce process in this instance.
I am not sure if that constitutes a "court order".
Firstly I would suggest coming to some kind of compromise, what justification would there be to stop the Mum taking the child on holiday, I would imagine in the future, you are likely to want to take the child somewhere on holiday for longer than a week, and if you try and prevent her now, she will likely do the same in the future.
Is this being done out of spite as you dont like her going away with a new partner?
I would check what exactly the agreement in the divorce states, does it allow x amount of days per month/year, or is it locked that you can only see them on set days?
You will also need to consider what happens in the future if you are unable to have the children on your set days, you would be expecting her to keep hold of them.
Ultimately, i would suggest allowing it, and then making the extra time up elsewhere, I cant imagine that any access order, would refuse to allow for one parent to take the child on holiday, and makes no allowances for alternative days.
How much are you willing to pay to prevent her from doing this, as I would imagine it could be very costly if it went to court.
Is this being done out of spite as you dont like her going away with a new partner?
I would check what exactly the agreement in the divorce states, does it allow x amount of days per month/year, or is it locked that you can only see them on set days?
You will also need to consider what happens in the future if you are unable to have the children on your set days, you would be expecting her to keep hold of them.
Ultimately, i would suggest allowing it, and then making the extra time up elsewhere, I cant imagine that any access order, would refuse to allow for one parent to take the child on holiday, and makes no allowances for alternative days.
How much are you willing to pay to prevent her from doing this, as I would imagine it could be very costly if it went to court.
This isn't me.
It's also not the mother who is being unreasonable.
In this instance, the father is seeking court binding arrangement for child access, this appears to be solely so he can then refuse any movement whatsoever in future, with the intent of causing distress when it inevitable interferes with family arrangements.
I understand it's hard to believe, I'm amazed by the behaviour, but this is the way it is.
It's also not the mother who is being unreasonable.
In this instance, the father is seeking court binding arrangement for child access, this appears to be solely so he can then refuse any movement whatsoever in future, with the intent of causing distress when it inevitable interferes with family arrangements.
I understand it's hard to believe, I'm amazed by the behaviour, but this is the way it is.
Prof Prolapse said:
This isn't me.
It's also not the mother who is being unreasonable.
I feel like you missed out some vital information, if it's the father being unreasonable he's a fool, unless the mother is unfit then the court will always favor the mother. Family law is loose at best, a child arrangements order cannot cover every future eventuality, there is a requirement for both parents to provide a level of flexibility. If they don't they will be in/out of court achieving very little, and spending an awful lot on solicitors.It's also not the mother who is being unreasonable.
Edited by markda on Thursday 24th December 20:07
markda said:
I feel like you missed out some vital information, if it's the father being unreasonable he's a fool, unless the mother is unfit then the court will always favor the mother. Family law is loose at best, a child arrangements order cannot cover every future eventuality, there is a requirement for both parents to provide a level of flexibility. If they don't they will be in/out of court achieving very little, and spending an awful lot on solicitors.
Not missed anything of note. There’s no two sides here. Just a fool, a very angry one. Edited by markda on Thursday 24th December 20:07
I guess if he’s raising the action it’ll be largely at his expense. Then he’ll lose, as mother would always be able to demonstrate reasonable attempts were made to be flexible.
Perhaps after continuing to throw good money after bad on solicitors he’ll grow up a bit.
Just playing Devil’s advocate - do you think he is wanting to formally set out the shared care arrangement in order to put a structured routine in place that can be adhered to for the most part? Perhaps he feels like he’s been jerked around left right and centre if the mother was prone to changing arrangements daily/weekly? Personally I do fine on a flexible arrangement but some people are a nightmare. It might be that he is highly organised and/or has strict commitments and the mother just wants to take each week as it comes?
I would try to put any cynicism to one side and hear him out.
I would try to put any cynicism to one side and hear him out.
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