996 c4s, the search begins
Discussion
Not the best time to look for a new car but I've got to start somewhere, but if there was ever a time to have a bit more fun...
I know its been done before but is it worth holding out for a car with a full (Hartech) engine rebuild? I've probably spent too much time reading about the topic but having had to have my TVR engine rebuilt i'd rather not go through that again.
Is bore scoring usually confined to lower mileage cars? I'm aware of the lower temp thermostat which can help. I'm looking for a manual car which i believe are less susceptible also.
I know its been done before but is it worth holding out for a car with a full (Hartech) engine rebuild? I've probably spent too much time reading about the topic but having had to have my TVR engine rebuilt i'd rather not go through that again.
Is bore scoring usually confined to lower mileage cars? I'm aware of the lower temp thermostat which can help. I'm looking for a manual car which i believe are less susceptible also.
Hartech are probably the best known Porsche engine rebuilders although RPM Technik, Northway , Sports & Classic & others have a similar rebuild process with a number of garages using Hartech to do the main machining work. You will need to ensure whatever you are looking at has had a full rebuild & not a partial rebuild (some only have just 1 cylinder rebuilt) & even Hartech can do a standard rebuild vs their uprated cylinder liners etc. It’s also worth enquiring what other preventative work has been done (i.e. clutch, dual mass flywheel, brake lines, AOS & water pump) whilst the engine was out.
A friend had his 996 3.6 engine fully rebuilt by Hartech last year (it dropped a valve which is a lesser known issue) & that was over £12k, although in honesty you might only get a few £ks more when it comes to resale - his attitude was he was going to keep it for another 5 yrs. If you find a car you like spec-wise, you could always have a full PPI & borescope done & negotiate a hard price.
If you can’t find a Hartech rebuilt car, find a good Porsche specialist such as 911Virgin, RPM Technik or RSJ Sports Cars who has a good sales/aftercare reputation (the 911UK forum is very honest on dealer experiences btw & has called out a number who were dodgy in the past).
A friend had his 996 3.6 engine fully rebuilt by Hartech last year (it dropped a valve which is a lesser known issue) & that was over £12k, although in honesty you might only get a few £ks more when it comes to resale - his attitude was he was going to keep it for another 5 yrs. If you find a car you like spec-wise, you could always have a full PPI & borescope done & negotiate a hard price.
If you can’t find a Hartech rebuilt car, find a good Porsche specialist such as 911Virgin, RPM Technik or RSJ Sports Cars who has a good sales/aftercare reputation (the 911UK forum is very honest on dealer experiences btw & has called out a number who were dodgy in the past).
p4cks said:
g7jhp said:
Or buy a 996 turbo.
Ideal really... if you have double the budget of what the OP is looking for! That amount may be doable in a few months it just starts to seem a bit much for a semi-daily car, to me at least.
I guess I just need to be patient
p4cks said:
Seriously and genuinely, YES.
I only know three 996 owners including me and each one has had borescoring issues. Engine rebuilds at 85K, 63K and 29K respectively.
Borescoring is the better known fault although camshaft, bearing wear and dropped valves are all part of the colourful list of items on 3.6s, plus pinion bearing and 2nd gear issues gearbox issues should be looked out for. Whilst Hartech do a busy trade in engine rebuilds, their rebuilt engines are still rare comparative to the number of non turbo/Mezger powered 996s and people forget the 996 was compared in its day to the 355 (and how many 60k mile plus 355s are out there?!).I only know three 996 owners including me and each one has had borescoring issues. Engine rebuilds at 85K, 63K and 29K respectively.
p4cks said:
g7jhp said:
p4cks said:
Ideal really... if you have double the budget of what the OP is looking for!
I didn't see the OP mention a budget?Merits to both. The turbo engine is more robust, running costs are higher and performance is in another league.
If an engine needs rebuilding a turbo would suddenly look fantastic value.
DanCat said:
Not the best time to look for a new car but I've got to start somewhere, but if there was ever a time to have a bit more fun...
I know its been done before but is it worth holding out for a car with a full (Hartech) engine rebuild? I've probably spent too much time reading about the topic but having had to have my TVR engine rebuilt i'd rather not go through that again.
Is bore scoring usually confined to lower mileage cars? I'm aware of the lower temp thermostat which can help. I'm looking for a manual car which i believe are less susceptible also.
Don't panic too much. Not many decent C4S around these days. Even fewer with low mileage. Look for decent annual service. RMS done. Preferably the exhaust done including manifolds. You may want to look for a 911 forum in the UK that will help. I know its been done before but is it worth holding out for a car with a full (Hartech) engine rebuild? I've probably spent too much time reading about the topic but having had to have my TVR engine rebuilt i'd rather not go through that again.
Is bore scoring usually confined to lower mileage cars? I'm aware of the lower temp thermostat which can help. I'm looking for a manual car which i believe are less susceptible also.
Good luck - the C4S is a hell of a car that will reap more rewards than the mental turbo.
I would prefer a c4s, they just look right in my eyes.
I have a wanted add on 911 forum, somehow I missed the Hartech rebuilt car that sold earlier this month.
It seems those that wanted to sell there car after the summer have done so and those who now want to sell are waiting for a few months, certainly not many around.
Frustratingly someone contacted me following my wanted add on Facebook with a hartech car, then changed his mind the next day...
I have a wanted add on 911 forum, somehow I missed the Hartech rebuilt car that sold earlier this month.
It seems those that wanted to sell there car after the summer have done so and those who now want to sell are waiting for a few months, certainly not many around.
Frustratingly someone contacted me following my wanted add on Facebook with a hartech car, then changed his mind the next day...
I wouldn’t worry too much finding a rebuilt engine car, I’m sure the vast majority will be fine.
I was initially horrified to find out that my C4S had over revs in every range. The Indy who told me could not believe the engine was still alive (nor that OPC put a warranty on it!). I discovered that the previous owner was 18 years old and had part exed it for new 911 Turbo S, and likely abused the s
t out of it! Nevertheless I put an additional 15k miles on it, track days, road trips etc. Used very little oil, never missed a beat. I sold the car 7 years ago. I still know the current owner, it’s still fine! Yes it’s been through tyres, discs, a few rads etc, but nothing more. I had a weaping RMS, had it changed twice under warranty. Still weaps a bit now apparently.
Try and find a nice one, well looked after, serviced and recent consumables replaced. Maybe suspension refreshed as well by now. Bore scope in each cylinder for peace of mind. Enjoy the hunt!
I was initially horrified to find out that my C4S had over revs in every range. The Indy who told me could not believe the engine was still alive (nor that OPC put a warranty on it!). I discovered that the previous owner was 18 years old and had part exed it for new 911 Turbo S, and likely abused the s
t out of it! Nevertheless I put an additional 15k miles on it, track days, road trips etc. Used very little oil, never missed a beat. I sold the car 7 years ago. I still know the current owner, it’s still fine! Yes it’s been through tyres, discs, a few rads etc, but nothing more. I had a weaping RMS, had it changed twice under warranty. Still weaps a bit now apparently.Try and find a nice one, well looked after, serviced and recent consumables replaced. Maybe suspension refreshed as well by now. Bore scope in each cylinder for peace of mind. Enjoy the hunt!
I’ve just bought a C4S (Dec 30th) after watching the market since last summer.
I considered a 997.1 or save up a few more ££ for a 996 turbo, but neither really did it for me like a C4S with a PSE!
Like you I was concerned about some of the mechanical horror stories you hear - I tend to think they’re a bit overhyped but my approach was to value a history of mechanical investment ahead of either small cosmetic issues or the presence of ‘desirable’ options.
My only non-negotiables were it had to be manual and have PSE.
I’d intended to buy from a dealer but ended up buying privately after speaking with the Indi specialist who knew the car.
Had a borescope done too for peace of mind.
Mine’s had all the obvious stuff done (IMS/RMS/clutch/brakes/rads/suspension refresh) but I’m under no illusion it still has the potential to chuck a big bill at me so I’ll be keeping a bit of a war chest (not enough to cover a Hartech rebuild though!)
Good luck with the search!
I considered a 997.1 or save up a few more ££ for a 996 turbo, but neither really did it for me like a C4S with a PSE!
Like you I was concerned about some of the mechanical horror stories you hear - I tend to think they’re a bit overhyped but my approach was to value a history of mechanical investment ahead of either small cosmetic issues or the presence of ‘desirable’ options.
My only non-negotiables were it had to be manual and have PSE.
I’d intended to buy from a dealer but ended up buying privately after speaking with the Indi specialist who knew the car.
Had a borescope done too for peace of mind.
Mine’s had all the obvious stuff done (IMS/RMS/clutch/brakes/rads/suspension refresh) but I’m under no illusion it still has the potential to chuck a big bill at me so I’ll be keeping a bit of a war chest (not enough to cover a Hartech rebuild though!)
Good luck with the search!
JMC Stratford have a nice looking blue one, one owner
https://jmcstratford.co.uk/vehicle/name/porsche-91...
I have no tie to this or the dealer it just popped up on Twitter so I though I would share it.
Good luck
https://jmcstratford.co.uk/vehicle/name/porsche-91...
I have no tie to this or the dealer it just popped up on Twitter so I though I would share it.
Good luck
LemonTart said:
JMC Stratford have a nice looking blue one, one owner
https://jmcstratford.co.uk/vehicle/name/porsche-91...
I have no tie to this or the dealer it just popped up on Twitter so I though I would share it.
Good luck
Blue is OK, but that interior! https://jmcstratford.co.uk/vehicle/name/porsche-91...
I have no tie to this or the dealer it just popped up on Twitter so I though I would share it.
Good luck
This one looks nice, although I do think Seal Grey with black leather is the best combination on the 996 C4S.
Edited by g7jhp on Monday 4th January 20:45
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