Lockdown Jan 2021 - can I do this?
Discussion
Hi all. I'm hoping this thread will be about "what CAN I do" under the rules, not "is it safe" or about whether lockdown is valid or not.
So here's my current set of questions. I've read the guidance, and "essential" is in the eye of the beholder.
My lease car is being collected this morning. I expect this will still happen, so I need another car. It won't be a new one, so I need to go and look at vehicles. Garages in my area are wise to distance selling so have only been offering delivery or click & collect once the customer has viewed the vehicle - which is just as well given some of the damage I've seen in person that's not in photos. So:
Next one: my garage was flooded recently and my classic car got pretty wet. Insurance is covering taking it to a restorer to wash out, check brakes, new leaf springs, change fluids, new door panels etc. I have lots of parts I'll need to take there. Is that OK?
I'd also like his mechanic to work on it, but he won't know all the detail of how it goes together, so we'd agreed that I'd work with him on reassembling the engine bay. Is that OK now? It's kind of work, I don't know...
I'm hoping the flood repair work continues. I know it can, but I wonder if it will or if we'll get the same over-compliance we had last year.
Interested in your dilemmas and questions too!
So here's my current set of questions. I've read the guidance, and "essential" is in the eye of the beholder.
My lease car is being collected this morning. I expect this will still happen, so I need another car. It won't be a new one, so I need to go and look at vehicles. Garages in my area are wise to distance selling so have only been offering delivery or click & collect once the customer has viewed the vehicle - which is just as well given some of the damage I've seen in person that's not in photos. So:
- Can I go to a used car dealer to view, test and buy a car?
- Since I have no car, can my daughter take me there?
Next one: my garage was flooded recently and my classic car got pretty wet. Insurance is covering taking it to a restorer to wash out, check brakes, new leaf springs, change fluids, new door panels etc. I have lots of parts I'll need to take there. Is that OK?
I'd also like his mechanic to work on it, but he won't know all the detail of how it goes together, so we'd agreed that I'd work with him on reassembling the engine bay. Is that OK now? It's kind of work, I don't know...
I'm hoping the flood repair work continues. I know it can, but I wonder if it will or if we'll get the same over-compliance we had last year.
Interested in your dilemmas and questions too!
I’d have said no. It’s not an essential service. Servicing probably will still be allowed. Potentially buying over the phone and delivery or collection will be allowed but you’ll have to skip a test drive. The first lockdown it wasn’t allowed and this is supposed to be at basically the same level.
With regards to the classic car - that isn’t essential and certainly not working alongside someone like that.
These are the the sort of actions as to why the virus is spreading and then the majority are having to suffer a lockdown.
With regards to the classic car - that isn’t essential and certainly not working alongside someone like that.
These are the the sort of actions as to why the virus is spreading and then the majority are having to suffer a lockdown.
Edited by W12GT on Tuesday 5th January 08:17
mr_spock said:
Hi all. I'm hoping this thread will be about "what CAN I do" under the rules, not "is it safe" or about whether lockdown is valid or not.
So here's my current set of questions. I've read the guidance, and "essential" is in the eye of the beholder.
My lease car is being collected this morning. I expect this will still happen, so I need another car. It won't be a new one, so I need to go and look at vehicles. Garages in my area are wise to distance selling so have only been offering delivery or click & collect once the customer has viewed the vehicle - which is just as well given some of the damage I've seen in person that's not in photos. So:
Next one: my garage was flooded recently and my classic car got pretty wet. Insurance is covering taking it to a restorer to wash out, check brakes, new leaf springs, change fluids, new door panels etc. I have lots of parts I'll need to take there. Is that OK?
I'd also like his mechanic to work on it, but he won't know all the detail of how it goes together, so we'd agreed that I'd work with him on reassembling the engine bay. Is that OK now? It's kind of work, I don't know...
I'm hoping the flood repair work continues. I know it can, but I wonder if it will or if we'll get the same over-compliance we had last year.
Interested in your dilemmas and questions too!
Viewing and test driving a car if you don't have one (given the collection) and its necessary to fulfill an essential purpose (e.g. shopping) sounds like an essential activity to me (or at least I'm sure it could be more than argued that way). May be worth trying to buy privately (unless your looking at OEM white goods) - some dealers aren't allowing test drives and some of the driving faults on second hand cars.....So here's my current set of questions. I've read the guidance, and "essential" is in the eye of the beholder.
My lease car is being collected this morning. I expect this will still happen, so I need another car. It won't be a new one, so I need to go and look at vehicles. Garages in my area are wise to distance selling so have only been offering delivery or click & collect once the customer has viewed the vehicle - which is just as well given some of the damage I've seen in person that's not in photos. So:
- Can I go to a used car dealer to view, test and buy a car?
- Since I have no car, can my daughter take me there?
Next one: my garage was flooded recently and my classic car got pretty wet. Insurance is covering taking it to a restorer to wash out, check brakes, new leaf springs, change fluids, new door panels etc. I have lots of parts I'll need to take there. Is that OK?
I'd also like his mechanic to work on it, but he won't know all the detail of how it goes together, so we'd agreed that I'd work with him on reassembling the engine bay. Is that OK now? It's kind of work, I don't know...
I'm hoping the flood repair work continues. I know it can, but I wonder if it will or if we'll get the same over-compliance we had last year.
Interested in your dilemmas and questions too!
Passengering in a car is fine - the guidance published last night said along the lines of "should avoid travelling with someone from outside the household unless absolutely necessary" - the should is enough of a get out there
The flood repair stuff (inc. taking the parts) should be classed as work - you being there is essential to allow the work to happen - there is no "essential worker" definition as far as i can see (although regulation hasn't come yet) - it just says "if unable to work from home" - the garage isn't at home....
The whole reason this virus has spread is because f
kwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...
“You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible”
Source
It’s not rocket science, yes you need a car. Look online for one, call the dealer, go buy it. Normal trading rules still apply, a test drive shouldn’t be necessary.
Your classic car restoration will have to wait. Stop trying to bend the rules.
kwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...“You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible”
Source
It’s not rocket science, yes you need a car. Look online for one, call the dealer, go buy it. Normal trading rules still apply, a test drive shouldn’t be necessary.
Your classic car restoration will have to wait. Stop trying to bend the rules.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 5th January 08:20
IMHO - buying a car, fine. Arguably getting your daughter to take you there, fine.
Working on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
Working on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
pablo said:
The whole reason this virus has spread is because fkwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...
“You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay...
That's guidance, not the law (which still hasn't been published). In addition, even in the guidance, the examples of reasons given to leave the home are non-exhaustive.......kwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...“You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay...
wiliferus said:
Working on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
The guidance also permits voluntary work....if the OP isn't being paid and he's assisting somebody working.....wiliferus said:
IMHO - buying a car, fine. Arguably getting your daughter to take you there, fine.
Working on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
indeedWorking on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
Thanks for the constructive comments, I was somewhat concerned about getting flamed...
I'm also looking privately, and hoping the dealers will do a vide viewing and abide by distance selling regs now instead of closing. But there's so much trash out there!
W12GT said:
I’d have said no. It’s not an essential service. Servicing probably will still be allowed. Potentially buying over the phone and delivery or collection will be allowed but you’ll have to skip a test drive. The first lockdown it wasn’t allowed and this is supposed to be at basically the same level. E
kiethton said:
Viewing and test driving a car if you don't have one (given the collection) and its necessary to fulfill an essential purpose (e.g. shopping) sounds like an essential activity to me (or at least I'm sure it could be more than argued that way). May be worth trying to buy privately (unless your looking at OEM white goods) - some dealers aren't allowing test drives and some of the driving faults on second hand cars.....
Right, that's the dilemma. It is essential for me to have a car, I live in a small village so need a car for shopping and I may need to provide food deliveries for my elderly parents, which I believe is within the rules. I'm also looking privately, and hoping the dealers will do a vide viewing and abide by distance selling regs now instead of closing. But there's so much trash out there!
kiethton said:
Passengering in a car is fine - the guidance published last night said along the lines of "should avoid travelling with someone from outside the household unless absolutely necessary" - the should is enough of a get out there
My daughter lives with me, so that part is OK, I guess her driving me to look at a car is as essential as me buying a car?kiethton said:
The flood repair stuff (inc. taking the parts) should be classed as work - you being there is essential to allow the work to happen - there is no "essential worker" definition as far as i can see (although regulation hasn't come yet) - it just says "if unable to work from home" - the garage isn't at home....
Yes, I'm hoping it continues. My home office was also flooded so it's affected my ability to work from home. Interesting point about taking the parts, sounds sensible. I don't need to get my hands on the engine, just be able to find the relevant parts in my stash of bits. If I could (for example) build the carb and home and take it, that would be fine, but everything below knee level is covered in mud and unpleasant stuff.wiliferus said:
IMHO - buying a car, fine. Arguably getting your daughter to take you there, fine.
Working on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
if there's a reasonable case that the OP requires the car for any of the listed permissable actions then can't see an issueWorking on the classic car with a mechanic, not fine. That’s not work. The exemption applies to paid employment which you can’t do from home. Working on your classic car is a hobby, and I would guess it can wait a few months.
If the mechanic working on the classic car, well its his livelihood, so long as he can show he's doing the social distance dance while doing his work then thats okay no?
kiethton said:
That's guidance, not the law (which still hasn't been published). In addition, even in the guidance, the examples of reasons given to leave the home are non-exhaustive.......
Yes it’s guidance, it’s pretty bloody clear guidance though, and it’s pretty clear that once again people will justify their actions as essential just to suit personal circumstances and ignore the consequences... knowing what we do about transfer of the virus, leaning over an engine bay with a stranger, sharing tools and personal space is just dumb.pablo said:
The whole reason this virus has spread is because fkwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...
“You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay...
Cracking post, but I can only imagine the number of imbeciles who will work around it or ignore it. Personally I’d like to see bigger fines and prison sentences for those working around them. In fact I’d be quite happy to see them in stocks getting a bit of a stoning and publicised on TV, but then again I’m a bit militant....kwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...“You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:
shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
attend education or childcare - for those eligible”
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay...
mr_spock said:
Hi all. I'm hoping this thread will be about "what CAN I do" under the rules, not "is it safe" or about whether lockdown is valid or not.
So here's my current set of questions. I've read the guidance, and "essential" is in the eye of the beholder.
My lease car is being collected this morning. I expect this will still happen, so I need another car. It won't be a new one, so I need to go and look at vehicles. Garages in my area are wise to distance selling so have only been offering delivery or click & collect once the customer has viewed the vehicle - which is just as well given some of the damage I've seen in person that's not in photos. So:
Next one: my garage was flooded recently and my classic car got pretty wet. Insurance is covering taking it to a restorer to wash out, check brakes, new leaf springs, change fluids, new door panels etc. I have lots of parts I'll need to take there. Is that OK?
I'd also like his mechanic to work on it, but he won't know all the detail of how it goes together, so we'd agreed that I'd work with him on reassembling the engine bay. Is that OK now? It's kind of work, I don't know...
I'm hoping the flood repair work continues. I know it can, but I wonder if it will or if we'll get the same over-compliance we had last year.
Interested in your dilemmas and questions too!
I would say the purchase of the car is essential retail, assuming the car dealer is actually open.So here's my current set of questions. I've read the guidance, and "essential" is in the eye of the beholder.
My lease car is being collected this morning. I expect this will still happen, so I need another car. It won't be a new one, so I need to go and look at vehicles. Garages in my area are wise to distance selling so have only been offering delivery or click & collect once the customer has viewed the vehicle - which is just as well given some of the damage I've seen in person that's not in photos. So:
- Can I go to a used car dealer to view, test and buy a car?
- Since I have no car, can my daughter take me there?
Next one: my garage was flooded recently and my classic car got pretty wet. Insurance is covering taking it to a restorer to wash out, check brakes, new leaf springs, change fluids, new door panels etc. I have lots of parts I'll need to take there. Is that OK?
I'd also like his mechanic to work on it, but he won't know all the detail of how it goes together, so we'd agreed that I'd work with him on reassembling the engine bay. Is that OK now? It's kind of work, I don't know...
I'm hoping the flood repair work continues. I know it can, but I wonder if it will or if we'll get the same over-compliance we had last year.
Interested in your dilemmas and questions too!
If they are open, and you have reasonable excuse to require to buy a car - like you do then I don't see the issue.
As for working on your car with a mechanic - I cant see any way thats ok under the current rules.
pablo said:
kiethton said:
That's guidance, not the law (which still hasn't been published). In addition, even in the guidance, the examples of reasons given to leave the home are non-exhaustive.......
Yes it’s guidance, it’s pretty bloody clear guidance though, and it’s pretty clear that once again people will justify their actions as essential just to suit personal circumstances and ignore the consequences... knowing what we do about transfer of the virus, leaning over an engine bay with a stranger, sharing tools and personal space is just dumb.I'll continue using every single reason to carry on with life as close to normal as possible - I'll just have to take a can of paint and a dust cloth to drinks with friends, now having to take place inside homes as they've closed the pubs/restaurants....at least its cheaper!
pablo said:
The whole reason this virus has spread is because fkwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...
<snip>
It’s not rocket science, yes you need a car. Look online for one, call the dealer, go buy it. Normal trading rules still apply, a test drive shouldn’t be necessary.
Your classic car restoration will have to wait. Stop trying to bend the rules.
Well I suppose there had to be one. Firstly, my question is NOT about what's sensible or safe. I'm not trying to bend rules, I just want to know how YOU interpret them.kwits have bend to bend the rules to make themselves feel special, or simply ignore them completely to suit personal circumstances. Which part of the following applies to the OPs scenario...<snip>
It’s not rocket science, yes you need a car. Look online for one, call the dealer, go buy it. Normal trading rules still apply, a test drive shouldn’t be necessary.
Your classic car restoration will have to wait. Stop trying to bend the rules.
Edited by pablo on Tuesday 5th January 08:20
I've looked at three cars now. All looked good in photos, and had reasonable MOT history. All had noticeable body damage or mechanical issues which were not revealed on the ad. OK, that's how it is, but I'm not buying junk that will let me down when I need it.
If it wasn't a classic car, would it be ok then? I could take my daily for repair and that would be within the rules, so what's the difference?
Remember. I'm only talking about the rules, not whether it's a good idea or not.
Used (& New) car lots must close
On gov.uk list of businesses which must close
"car and other vehicle showrooms and other premises, including outdoor areas, used for the sale or hire of caravans, boats or any vehicle which can be propelled by mechanical means. However taxi or vehicle hire businesses can continue. For example a customer could order a rental vehicle online and collect it in person."
On gov.uk list of businesses which must close
"car and other vehicle showrooms and other premises, including outdoor areas, used for the sale or hire of caravans, boats or any vehicle which can be propelled by mechanical means. However taxi or vehicle hire businesses can continue. For example a customer could order a rental vehicle online and collect it in person."
mr_spock said:
Thanks for the constructive comments, I was somewhat concerned about getting flamed...
I'm also looking privately, and hoping the dealers will do a vide viewing and abide by distance selling regs now instead of closing. But there's so much trash out there!
So if your daughter lives with you then of course you can go together. However that’s for local travel only I believe.W12GT said:
I’d have said no. It’s not an essential service. Servicing probably will still be allowed. Potentially buying over the phone and delivery or collection will be allowed but you’ll have to skip a test drive. The first lockdown it wasn’t allowed and this is supposed to be at basically the same level. E
kiethton said:
Viewing and test driving a car if you don't have one (given the collection) and its necessary to fulfill an essential purpose (e.g. shopping) sounds like an essential activity to me (or at least I'm sure it could be more than argued that way). May be worth trying to buy privately (unless your looking at OEM white goods) - some dealers aren't allowing test drives and some of the driving faults on second hand cars.....
Right, that's the dilemma. It is essential for me to have a car, I live in a small village so need a car for shopping and I may need to provide food deliveries for my elderly parents, which I believe is within the rules. I'm also looking privately, and hoping the dealers will do a vide viewing and abide by distance selling regs now instead of closing. But there's so much trash out there!
kiethton said:
Passengering in a car is fine - the guidance published last night said along the lines of "should avoid travelling with someone from outside the household unless absolutely necessary" - the should is enough of a get out there
My daughter lives with me, so that part is OK, I guess her driving me to look at a car is as essential as me buying a car?kiethton said:
The flood repair stuff (inc. taking the parts) should be classed as work - you being there is essential to allow the work to happen - there is no "essential worker" definition as far as i can see (although regulation hasn't come yet) - it just says "if unable to work from home" - the garage isn't at home....
Yes, I'm hoping it continues. My home office was also flooded so it's affected my ability to work from home. Interesting point about taking the parts, sounds sensible. I don't need to get my hands on the engine, just be able to find the relevant parts in my stash of bits. If I could (for example) build the carb and home and take it, that would be fine, but everything below knee level is covered in mud and unpleasant stuff.I’m more alarmed at other responses than your questions to be honest, especially seeing your statements above which seem mostly reasonable and fair!
The hobby activity is not work for you, it isn’t paid work and isn’t voluntary work so if you do this then it’s wrong. Also, if the mechanic doesn’t know how to put it together then they shouldn’t be working on it - if you do know how to re-assemble then you should be doing it at home!
Troubleatmill said:
I guess for some folks to be able to exercise a bit of common sense - it needs someone close to them dying of this wretched thing.
I've lost 3 people close to me from Covid, and a couple of acquaintances. I didn't say I'm planning to do this, just whether it's within your interpretation of the rules or not.I think in practice I'll take the larger parts, courier the smaller ones, and help him over video.
If I was also a mechanic would it be ok then? Two mechanics can work together in a garage workplace, right? Just curious.
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