Share registrars
Discussion
For historical reasons I hold a particular stock in two different places, Equiniti and my bank shareholding account (about 20:80 respectively).
Is there any reason not to amalgamate them all with the bank for ease of admin? Equiniti say they can do this with a form and £10. Or I suppose they could all go to Equiniti if that has any advantage.
Thought I'd check first as I'm not a share expert so there maybe something I've missed.
Is there any reason not to amalgamate them all with the bank for ease of admin? Equiniti say they can do this with a form and £10. Or I suppose they could all go to Equiniti if that has any advantage.
Thought I'd check first as I'm not a share expert so there maybe something I've missed.
Bit unclear whether you're saying you have a physical certificate in your name for a company Equiniti are the registrars for, or whether both holdings are electronic and in their respective nominees, but to be honest it doesn't really matter - I can't think of any downside to merging the holdings - and it will simplify corporate actions, receipt of dividends/reports/circulars, because you must be getting two of everything currently.
DavidJJ said:
Bit unclear whether you're saying you have a physical certificate in your name for a company Equiniti are the registrars for, or whether both holdings are electronic and in their respective nominees, but to be honest it doesn't really matter - I can't think of any downside to merging the holdings - and it will simplify corporate actions, receipt of dividends/reports/circulars, because you must be getting two of everything currently.
Thanks. They're Shell - started by my mother in the 1960s so whilst I do have some old certificates, they sort of went to Equiniti at some time before I had them. I assume the physical certificates are just 'wall art' now.The ones at the bank I bought on-line - so you can assume both kinds are with nominees. Or are they registrars, if there's a difference?
Why do companies have them anyway? Is it that they just can't be bothered to deal direct with shareholders? They don't seem to charge me anything.
Well - companies have a lot of obligations when it comes to their shareholders, ultimately boiling down to a legal duty of needing to keep an accurate record of who actually holds all their shares.
From that stems a huge range of other activities - from the basic admin stuff like handling lost certificates, issuing new ones, dealing with address changes, probate etc, then the bread & butter stuff of being linked in with the stock exchange to accurately reflect the share trading activity electronically taking place during the day, all the way through to handling corporate actions (rights issues, share splits, dividends, take-overs, etc) that flow from and impact those shareholdings.
So if you're Shell, you want to be focusing on being Shell rather than than worrying about all of that so it gets outsourced to registrars.
Regarding nominees, you can look on a register and see how Mr Bob Smith has 100 shares - that's one account on the register. If you then look at say Barclays Nominees you'll see 50,000,000 shares in there - that's still one account. But Barclays will separately be keeping their own record of all the holders that make up that 50,000,000 figure. Those holders are dealing with (and paying) Barclays rather than the registrar.
(Nominees have actually hurt registrars quite badly as traditionally they've charged companies on a per register account basis - it's why they've broaden their remit to get involved in things like running Employee Share Plans, offering their own Nominee services, and so on).
From that stems a huge range of other activities - from the basic admin stuff like handling lost certificates, issuing new ones, dealing with address changes, probate etc, then the bread & butter stuff of being linked in with the stock exchange to accurately reflect the share trading activity electronically taking place during the day, all the way through to handling corporate actions (rights issues, share splits, dividends, take-overs, etc) that flow from and impact those shareholdings.
So if you're Shell, you want to be focusing on being Shell rather than than worrying about all of that so it gets outsourced to registrars.
Regarding nominees, you can look on a register and see how Mr Bob Smith has 100 shares - that's one account on the register. If you then look at say Barclays Nominees you'll see 50,000,000 shares in there - that's still one account. But Barclays will separately be keeping their own record of all the holders that make up that 50,000,000 figure. Those holders are dealing with (and paying) Barclays rather than the registrar.
(Nominees have actually hurt registrars quite badly as traditionally they've charged companies on a per register account basis - it's why they've broaden their remit to get involved in things like running Employee Share Plans, offering their own Nominee services, and so on).
Edited by DavidJJ on Wednesday 13th January 22:47
Yes on the first question, although just to keep it fun Equiniti offer their own nominee service as well (Equiniti Shareview I think). So if you were in that, you wouldn't hold physical share certificates anymore; the holding would just sit within their nominee pot of shareholdings. Which is what I presume First Direct is giving you now.
Sorry, don't really understand your second question; there's not a relationship between Equiniti and First Direct as far as I know, other than First Direct's own nominee is ultimately part of the share register Equiniti are maintaining for Shell.
Sorry, don't really understand your second question; there's not a relationship between Equiniti and First Direct as far as I know, other than First Direct's own nominee is ultimately part of the share register Equiniti are maintaining for Shell.
DavidJJ said:
Sorry, don't really understand your second question; there's not a relationship between Equiniti and First Direct as far as I know, other than First Direct's own nominee is ultimately part of the share register Equiniti are maintaining for Shell.
I thought the order might be Shell > Equiniti > Bank > Me... but now you mention 'First Direct's own nominee' (who are they?) so maybe there are more links...Anyway, it seems that as far as I'm concerned Equiniti and bank are doing the same job.
NB The post arrived, in which are the transfer forms. Seems that Equiniti is a Corporate Nominee Service.
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 14th January 15:19
Yep - that's sounds right. The transfer form along with the share certificates would be sent back to them, they will move the paper certificated holding into their nominee, you'd then have an electronic holding within that nominee.
I sense I might still not be fully understanding your overall position (my bad - sorry) and don't want to confuse so will probably step out here, but the original point stands - there isn't a reason to have your holding spread across two nominees i.e. both Equiniti and First Direct. So definitely worth transferring it in totality to one or the other.
I sense I might still not be fully understanding your overall position (my bad - sorry) and don't want to confuse so will probably step out here, but the original point stands - there isn't a reason to have your holding spread across two nominees i.e. both Equiniti and First Direct. So definitely worth transferring it in totality to one or the other.
Just building on what's already been said above,
Registrar is, for practical purposes, an outsourced department of the company itself whose job is to maintain the company's register of shareholders.
Nominees are people who help you hold shares electronically as opposed to you hanging on to old-fashioned paper share certificates.
It makes no sense for one shareholder to hold shares in one company via two different nominees. Similarly it makes no sense for one shareholder to hold some paper shares and some electronic shares in the same company.
Why electronic shareholdings? Transfers and settlement (payment) are much faster than with paper shares which used to take up to 10 days to complete.
Registrar is, for practical purposes, an outsourced department of the company itself whose job is to maintain the company's register of shareholders.
Nominees are people who help you hold shares electronically as opposed to you hanging on to old-fashioned paper share certificates.
It makes no sense for one shareholder to hold shares in one company via two different nominees. Similarly it makes no sense for one shareholder to hold some paper shares and some electronic shares in the same company.
Why electronic shareholdings? Transfers and settlement (payment) are much faster than with paper shares which used to take up to 10 days to complete.
DavidJJ said:
Yep - that's sounds right. The transfer form along with the share certificates would be sent back to them, they will move the paper certificated holding into their nominee
I'm afraid you're dealing with an idiot here. I thought Equiniti was the nominee. Who is Equiniti's nominee?DavidJJ said:
- there isn't a reason to have your holding spread across two nominees i.e. both Equiniti and First Direct. So definitely worth transferring it in totality to one or the other.
Thanks David. I inherited some of the shares originally. I know how to buy them and sell them, and do something with the dividends, but as to how the machinery works behind the scenes I have no idea. Still don't know the difference between a registrar and a nominee but it doesn't seem to matter!rockin said:
Registrar is, for practical purposes, an outsourced department of the company itself whose job is to maintain the company's register of shareholders.
Yep, got that.rockin said:
Nominees are people who help you hold shares electronically as opposed to you hanging on to old-fashioned paper share certificates.
That I think is the missing link. Perhaps Equiniti are both registrar and nominee, and First Direct are just a nominee? rockin said:
It makes no sense for one shareholder to hold shares in one company via two different nominees. Similarly it makes no sense for one shareholder to hold some paper shares and some electronic shares in the same company.
Agreed. The paper shares that my mother owned seem to have been taken over by Equiniti before I had them.We won't get into A and B shares, suffice it to say that I once got a cheque for 99 cents!
Simpo - that's one of the points which was made by DavidJJ above. The likes of Equiniti may sometimes offer both services side-by-side at the same time.
It's a bit like the situation where,
Some MOT stations carry out MOTs on behalf of the governments but don't service or repair cars.
Some garages will service/repair your car but don't do MOTs.
And some garages do both - but the two activities remain completely separate.
It's a bit like the situation where,
Some MOT stations carry out MOTs on behalf of the governments but don't service or repair cars.
Some garages will service/repair your car but don't do MOTs.
And some garages do both - but the two activities remain completely separate.
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