Approach to buying/valuing old specialist cars
Discussion
I wondered what approach you lot take when buying more specialist vehicles. The types of cars that I'm thinking about (as its what I'm looking at) are 90s/00s sports cars in the 10 to 20k range, but I suppose the question is broader than that.
Specifically:
- Do you prefer private or dealer? If dealer, what sort of premium would you pay?
- If it is a rare car, would you compromise on spec for a better price or pay more for the spec you want even if it seems expensive?
- Do you watch the market for a long time to find the exact spec you want in great condition at a good price? Do you compromise on one or more to get the car on your drive more quickly?
- Do you pay over the odds for an immaculate car or try to find a bargain for a car that you can improve?
For rarer cars, pricing seems a real challenge. The spread of prices between cars that look quite similar can be large, and there can be cars that sit for a long time that don't sell, but if you look at prices as a snapshot in time suggest they are sold at a fair price. Very tidy cars may not be much more expensive than much less tidy cars, but obviously sell much more quickly and come to market much less often. Private enthusiasts can often ask what appear inflated prices.
I know the answer is a car is worth what someone will pay, and maybe one just needs to take a relaxed approach to "value" and whether or not you can sell the car for what you paid easily. Missing out on the right car over a few grand might be a bit silly...
Specifically:
- Do you prefer private or dealer? If dealer, what sort of premium would you pay?
- If it is a rare car, would you compromise on spec for a better price or pay more for the spec you want even if it seems expensive?
- Do you watch the market for a long time to find the exact spec you want in great condition at a good price? Do you compromise on one or more to get the car on your drive more quickly?
- Do you pay over the odds for an immaculate car or try to find a bargain for a car that you can improve?
For rarer cars, pricing seems a real challenge. The spread of prices between cars that look quite similar can be large, and there can be cars that sit for a long time that don't sell, but if you look at prices as a snapshot in time suggest they are sold at a fair price. Very tidy cars may not be much more expensive than much less tidy cars, but obviously sell much more quickly and come to market much less often. Private enthusiasts can often ask what appear inflated prices.
I know the answer is a car is worth what someone will pay, and maybe one just needs to take a relaxed approach to "value" and whether or not you can sell the car for what you paid easily. Missing out on the right car over a few grand might be a bit silly...
PrinceRupert said:
- Do you prefer private or dealer? If dealer, what sort of premium would you pay?
Private; with a rare/special car I'd rather deal with a fellow enthusiast than a professional seller. On something like this I take the view that I'm immediately responsible for any and all problems the car may develop anyway, so I don't feel that a "warranty" would be worth the paper it's written on.PrinceRupert said:
- If it is a rare car, would you compromise on spec for a better price or pay more for the spec you want even if it seems expensive?
- Do you watch the market for a long time to find the exact spec you want in great condition at a good price? Do you compromise on one or more to get the car on your drive more quickly?
I tend to get obsessed and want to buy a car ASAP, so I tend to buy based on what's available. Condition more important than spec or price. I'm prepared to compromise on spec on a rare car in order to get a car in good condition and without waiting too long. Spec is only vital if it really compromises the core thing I want from the car.- Do you watch the market for a long time to find the exact spec you want in great condition at a good price? Do you compromise on one or more to get the car on your drive more quickly?
PrinceRupert said:
- Do you pay over the odds for an immaculate car or try to find a bargain for a car that you can improve?
I know I'll be paying someone for any work needed so I wouldn't be inclined to buy a car cheap that I knew needed work, as it would work out more expensive and more of a hassle. I have recently paid top whack for a car based on a extensive (and expensive) recent maintenance history.PrinceRupert said:
maybe one just needs to take a relaxed approach to "value" and whether or not you can sell the car for what you paid easily. Missing out on the right car over a few grand might be a bit silly...
If you're sure it's a keeper and sure it's truly good condition, for a rare car yes it may be worth paying a bit over market value, I agree. I'd rather overpay than buy a lemon, the pain of paying is a one-time thing but the pain of owning a bad car is ongoing. OTOH if you may want to sell it in a year or two, waiting for a bargain makes proportionately more difference.Thanks, interesting input. On the point around you would rather overpay than buy a lemon - I agree, but my concern is that all cars of this age will have warts and not sure it is necessarily the case that paying more means you are less likely to have problems. My other problem is history shows if I go look at a car I'll end up buying it there and then regardless of any flaws ... and online adverts / pictures are very good at making average/rough cars look excellent!
PrinceRupert said:
On the point around you would rather overpay than buy a lemon - I agree, but my concern is that all cars of this age will have warts and not sure it is necessarily the case that paying more means you are less likely to have problems.
Agree, I'm aware that perfection and decade-plus-old cars don't go together, and that a car presenting well isn't the same as being genuinely excellent condition. It would be quite easy to pay top money and then end up with expensive repairs on top. I guess typically when looking at a particular model I'll have a 'worry list' of key issues that are both relatively common and relatively expensive to fix. If I get specific evidence that each item on my list is definitely good, whether by inspection, receipt for replacement or whatever, then each of those adds a chunk of 'value' in my mind, which can then add up to convince me to pay more for that car. In a sense even if that car has other issues, I feel ok about paying to cover off the specific concerns I had about that model.PrinceRupert said:
My other problem is history shows if I go look at a car I'll end up buying it there and then regardless of any flaws ... and online adverts / pictures are very good at making average/rough cars look excellent!
Yes... I've done that too.In a 'hot' market you may need to make a decision there and then; it can also be logistically convenient. Otherwise there can be a lot to be said for the phrase 'I'll sleep on it'.
Either way, the more info you can obtain before going to look at a car the better. Online MoT history, google image search the registration number, any forum posts by the seller, ask them to send scans of the service history documents so you can review in advance, ask questions on the phone / by email. All this you can then consider without the pressure of being stood in front of the car. So then if you do decide to buy the car on the spot, at least you've considered this info in advance.
A specialist inspection is another tool for driving a considered decision, obviously costs money in itself and you need to find someone to do it and persuade the seller to co-operate. At the same time, spending money inspecting their car shows a seller you're seriously interested in buying.
I've not bought that many cars, but I tend to get a gut feeling by the time I've seen the car and so far (touch wood) I've not regretted any of my purchases.
Keep an eye on car auction sites. I’m watching a few at the moment and generally prices are down compared to the reserve and classified adverts for similar condition cars.
Also, are there owners clubs for the cars you are interested in? Usually they have a classifieds and cars are (in general) are honestly described and well looked after.
Also, are there owners clubs for the cars you are interested in? Usually they have a classifieds and cars are (in general) are honestly described and well looked after.
Paynewright said:
Keep an eye on car auction sites. I’m watching a few at the moment and generally prices are down compared to the reserve and classified adverts for similar condition cars.
Also, are there owners clubs for the cars you are interested in? Usually they have a classifieds and cars are (in general) are honestly described and well looked after.
Any suggestions of auction sites to watch?Also, are there owners clubs for the cars you are interested in? Usually they have a classifieds and cars are (in general) are honestly described and well looked after.
I'm specifically looking at Corvette C5s, I am a member of CCUK, but since November only one C5 come up for sale and although it is nice it is up for way more than what I am willing to spend on a C5 (as seller argues its concourse).
PrinceRupert said:
I wondered what approach you lot take when buying more specialist vehicles. The types of cars that I'm thinking about (as its what I'm looking at) are 90s/00s sports cars in the 10 to 20k range, but I suppose the question is broader than that.
Specifically:
- Do you prefer private or dealer? If dealer, what sort of premium would you pay?
- If it is a rare car, would you compromise on spec for a better price or pay more for the spec you want even if it seems expensive?
- Do you watch the market for a long time to find the exact spec you want in great condition at a good price? Do you compromise on one or more to get the car on your drive more quickly?
- Do you pay over the odds for an immaculate car or try to find a bargain for a car that you can improve?
For rarer cars, pricing seems a real challenge. The spread of prices between cars that look quite similar can be large, and there can be cars that sit for a long time that don't sell, but if you look at prices as a snapshot in time suggest they are sold at a fair price. Very tidy cars may not be much more expensive than much less tidy cars, but obviously sell much more quickly and come to market much less often. Private enthusiasts can often ask what appear inflated prices.
I know the answer is a car is worth what someone will pay, and maybe one just needs to take a relaxed approach to "value" and whether or not you can sell the car for what you paid easily. Missing out on the right car over a few grand might be a bit silly...
Private - to get a feel for how well the car has been maintained rather than how well the dealer has polished it. Specifically:
- Do you prefer private or dealer? If dealer, what sort of premium would you pay?
- If it is a rare car, would you compromise on spec for a better price or pay more for the spec you want even if it seems expensive?
- Do you watch the market for a long time to find the exact spec you want in great condition at a good price? Do you compromise on one or more to get the car on your drive more quickly?
- Do you pay over the odds for an immaculate car or try to find a bargain for a car that you can improve?
For rarer cars, pricing seems a real challenge. The spread of prices between cars that look quite similar can be large, and there can be cars that sit for a long time that don't sell, but if you look at prices as a snapshot in time suggest they are sold at a fair price. Very tidy cars may not be much more expensive than much less tidy cars, but obviously sell much more quickly and come to market much less often. Private enthusiasts can often ask what appear inflated prices.
I know the answer is a car is worth what someone will pay, and maybe one just needs to take a relaxed approach to "value" and whether or not you can sell the car for what you paid easily. Missing out on the right car over a few grand might be a bit silly...
As to spec - can only buy what is available. I got lucky with a poorly described Porsche 996 with the desirable M030 pack. It had a sunroof which I hate - it’s simply something to go wrong! Bought it all the same.
Had been watching the market for a while, almost a year. Many cars on the Porsche enthusiast sites were overpriced and hung around for a long time. Spotted this one on car and classic.
Decided on a cheaper car as many that could look great would just as likely have the same inherent issues not yet dealt with.
My best advice is to find a seller whose wife has over spent on the kitchen refurb budget who needs the cash to pay his tax bill in 2 weeks time! This weekend is the time to buy a car.
Id rather buy private but if there are no other cars around then your only choice may be a dealer, value is hard its worth what its worth to someone, values go up too so i find it hard to buy something that i know i could have had say 5k cheaper a year ago!
Also its worth noting i consider myself fairly savvy when buying cars but dont overlook the rose tinted film that comes over your eyes when you arrive to look at something you want
I went to go see a VW beetle that my mrs wanted, roller shutter went up and i knew as soon as i saw it i was buying it regardless and managed to overlook the fact it was about 3 differnt shades of paint, leaked oil like you wouldnt belive.
Roll on 5 years its been repainted and a built a new motor for it and its now worth double what we paid and its perfect.
I will also say that perfect cars are out there too and worth paying a little more for, this beetle was restored and done properly and solid(apart from the paint), same with my dads TR6 that came from Vegas again it was expensive vs some uk cars but stilil has the factory primer underneath and something like that is rare and worth extra IMO to know its original and solid.
Enjoy your hunt!
Also its worth noting i consider myself fairly savvy when buying cars but dont overlook the rose tinted film that comes over your eyes when you arrive to look at something you want
I went to go see a VW beetle that my mrs wanted, roller shutter went up and i knew as soon as i saw it i was buying it regardless and managed to overlook the fact it was about 3 differnt shades of paint, leaked oil like you wouldnt belive.
Roll on 5 years its been repainted and a built a new motor for it and its now worth double what we paid and its perfect.
I will also say that perfect cars are out there too and worth paying a little more for, this beetle was restored and done properly and solid(apart from the paint), same with my dads TR6 that came from Vegas again it was expensive vs some uk cars but stilil has the factory primer underneath and something like that is rare and worth extra IMO to know its original and solid.
Enjoy your hunt!
It looks like a bit of a consensus is forming in favour of private sales, which I agree with.
My main thought process at the moment is whether I buy the best (or best value) car I can right now, or whether I wait for the right car to come along at the right price however long that might take.
My main thought process at the moment is whether I buy the best (or best value) car I can right now, or whether I wait for the right car to come along at the right price however long that might take.
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