Mercedes 7G transmission woes
Discussion
Recently purchased 2010 E350 CDI has a gearbox problem and the trader is fobbing me off.
It mostly behaves round town, though it does have an intermittent fault - will sometimes completely fail to accelerate while the revs slowly rise. I can usually provoke it to do it, constant speed until it’s changed up and settled at low revs for a bit and then smoothly apply throttle. Once triggered I can push the throttle right through to kickdown and it won’t accelerate.
On the motorway, fuel consumption @70 is mid 30’s - my old E320 did mid 40’s. Revs are inconsistent. After a while it shows a CEL. Stored code is P0741 - torque converter clutch circuit performance/stuck off.
Trader is clearly giving me the runaround (after standing me up 3 times and suggesting on the phone that it was wear and tear or the battery was low he’s now been shown the problem and suggested I clear the codes and drive it on the paddles for a week to see if it goes away... erm ) so I’ve booked it in at a Mercedes independent next week for a diagnosis at my expense - will see what they say and consider what to do next.
I expect that the conclusion will be “change fluid and filter and see it that fixes it”.
Anyone know how likely that is? Does it ever work?
I fear that it’s going to be something worse than that.
It mostly behaves round town, though it does have an intermittent fault - will sometimes completely fail to accelerate while the revs slowly rise. I can usually provoke it to do it, constant speed until it’s changed up and settled at low revs for a bit and then smoothly apply throttle. Once triggered I can push the throttle right through to kickdown and it won’t accelerate.
On the motorway, fuel consumption @70 is mid 30’s - my old E320 did mid 40’s. Revs are inconsistent. After a while it shows a CEL. Stored code is P0741 - torque converter clutch circuit performance/stuck off.
Trader is clearly giving me the runaround (after standing me up 3 times and suggesting on the phone that it was wear and tear or the battery was low he’s now been shown the problem and suggested I clear the codes and drive it on the paddles for a week to see if it goes away... erm ) so I’ve booked it in at a Mercedes independent next week for a diagnosis at my expense - will see what they say and consider what to do next.
I expect that the conclusion will be “change fluid and filter and see it that fixes it”.
Anyone know how likely that is? Does it ever work?
I fear that it’s going to be something worse than that.
I have no idea specifically however with the Error code and message you typed I went go a popular search engine and copied it it
I got this link.
https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-tech-talk/7068...
It appears to be a Torque Converter issue however would need proper diagnostics and testing / logging to confirm. Lots of other sites and also some videos explaining the issue.
Fluid change may help but unlikely.
Amazing this Google eh :-)
I would suggest the Trader deals with it or you simply return the car if he refuses.
I got this link.
https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-tech-talk/7068...
It appears to be a Torque Converter issue however would need proper diagnostics and testing / logging to confirm. Lots of other sites and also some videos explaining the issue.
Fluid change may help but unlikely.
Amazing this Google eh :-)
I would suggest the Trader deals with it or you simply return the car if he refuses.
Oh yes, I’ve given it a thorough googling, though you have to keep in mind that’s a standard OBD code - the specialist will get more information from Star. The clutch isn’t locking up is the high level diagnosis.
Question really is - all these issues tend to recommend trying a fluid and filter change first, I wondered whether people had experience of it being as simple as that.
Don’t want to think about how much of a pain in the arse the garage is going to be if I have to reject it or get them to fix anything serious.
Question really is - all these issues tend to recommend trying a fluid and filter change first, I wondered whether people had experience of it being as simple as that.
Don’t want to think about how much of a pain in the arse the garage is going to be if I have to reject it or get them to fix anything serious.
It couldn't be something simple like needing to recalibrate the throttle position sensor could it? I was messing about with my GL via the OBDII and messed that up unknowingly and it ran like a dog, not changing gear and not accelerating.
I eventually realised what I'd done and performed the recalibration correctly since when it's been tip top.
I eventually realised what I'd done and performed the recalibration correctly since when it's been tip top.
Mars said:
It couldn't be something simple like needing to recalibrate the throttle position sensor could it? I was messing about with my GL via the OBDII and messed that up unknowingly and it ran like a dog, not changing gear and not accelerating.
I eventually realised what I'd done and performed the recalibration correctly since when it's been tip top.
The code is a likely torque converter fault. As above.I eventually realised what I'd done and performed the recalibration correctly since when it's been tip top.
OP
How many miles old is the car? If it's well over 100,000, I would ask you be reasonable with the trader and perhaps meet in the middle on price.
Online it seemed the torque converter was not that expensive, but the labour will the problem. I reckon £800 to £1000 all in.
2010, 105k miles, £7250, 3 month “warranty”. Morally and legally it’s their problem. Quote from the Mercedes indy is £750/£550 for an exchange torque converter depending which version it is, couple of hundred quid in oil/filter/gasket/seals and 6.6 hours of labour. Total including VAT is £1500 / £1750.
Trader would no doubt get it done somewhere cheaper - to be honest I would rather they gave me what it will cost them towards getting it done properly, but it’s their call. I suspect they’re just going to deny there’s a problem and be hard to get hold of.
Trader would no doubt get it done somewhere cheaper - to be honest I would rather they gave me what it will cost them towards getting it done properly, but it’s their call. I suspect they’re just going to deny there’s a problem and be hard to get hold of.
catman said:
Can you not take it back to the Dealer and tell them to either repair it, or give you your money back? While you are still driving it, you can't really say that it's not fit for purpose.
We're talking a forecourt with a portacabin on it, which is currently locked up because of Covid. I've had the salesman over to look at it, and demonstrated the problem to him. His opinion was that it was because the battery had got low on charge before sale and I should clear the codes, drive it for a week on the paddles and that if the CEL came back on call him back and they would fix it. The CEL does not come on in normal urban use, it comes on during long motorway drives.
Hence why I took it to a specialist and got the problem diagnosed. Now I need to speak to them again about either repairing it or giving me my money back. I suspect that this is going to be a pain in the arse.
If they've said to follow a procedure and they'll sort it, then I'd just do that. Make it easy for them to see you've done as asked and try and be gentle with them.
Don't forget that they've probably taken this one in on good faith - either through BCA or from another customer, and it'll eat their margin totally on the sale.
Don't forget that they've probably taken this one in on good faith - either through BCA or from another customer, and it'll eat their margin totally on the sale.
Krikkit said:
If they've said to follow a procedure and they'll sort it, then I'd just do that. Make it easy for them to see you've done as asked and try and be gentle with them.
Don't forget that they've probably taken this one in on good faith - either through BCA or from another customer, and it'll eat their margin totally on the sale.
They wanted me to erase the fault codes which would allow the diagnosis of the problem, so I wasn't going to do that. I now know that the fault is not going to go away. And yes, it probably will eat their margin, but that's their cost of doing business, no?Don't forget that they've probably taken this one in on good faith - either through BCA or from another customer, and it'll eat their margin totally on the sale.
otolith said:
2010, 105k miles, £7250, 3 month “warranty”. Morally and legally it’s their problem. Quote from the Mercedes indy is £750/£550 for an exchange torque converter depending which version it is, couple of hundred quid in oil/filter/gasket/seals and 6.6 hours of labour. Total including VAT is £1500 / £1750.
Trader would no doubt get it done somewhere cheaper - to be honest I would rather they gave me what it will cost them towards getting it done properly, but it’s their call. I suspect they’re just going to deny there’s a problem and be hard to get hold of.
As I said I think you have to be reasonably realistic when buying a 11 year old car with over 100k miles. There will / can be some issues. Trader would no doubt get it done somewhere cheaper - to be honest I would rather they gave me what it will cost them towards getting it done properly, but it’s their call. I suspect they’re just going to deny there’s a problem and be hard to get hold of.
If it were me I'd probably be asking for half of the cost covered, but "legally", yes, they have to resolve it and it's not within 3 months, it's within 6 months, under the CRA 2015.
.
Morally is different from legally. A 100k car is going to have some problems, unfortunately it is very well possible it drove absolutely fine when under the ownership of the dealer / previous owner.
If you bought a £1200 car from a dealer/trader that had 150k on it, and then the gearbox broke on that, would you be expecting them to fully refund you or repair too? I mean, legally they have to but morally, I don't think they should.
If you look online you can probably find exchange gearboxes which already have the Torque Convertor replaced/upgraded etc for less than your Mercedes specialist is charging.
If you look on Ebay / google you may find some ? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392905763588?mkevt=1&am...
la-1140298850773&abcId=1145983&merchantid=6995734&gclid=CjwKCAiA6aSABhApEiwA6Cbm_zBd6YUt_BIs2ycKpYKnP_Ixo9vPpteYtBx9cQq-R7F5Eao373LHqBoC9FgQAvD_BwEhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_t...
You can buy whole gearboxes with 30 day warranties for 250? I guess you need to confirm your part number / model to see if that is an option.
I wouldn't be expecting genuine / OEM parts either.
320d is all you need said:
You can buy whole gearboxes with 30 day warranties for 250? I guess you need to confirm your part number / model to see if that is an option.
I wouldn't be expecting genuine / OEM parts either.
They won't know the part number for the torque converter until they get it out.I wouldn't be expecting genuine / OEM parts either.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect something from a scrap yard with a 30 day warranty, to be honest. The price quoted is for a professionally refurbished part, a new OEM part from Mercedes would be considerably more.
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