Quick furlough and holiday question
Discussion
Say an employee normally works mon-fri but for now is flexibly furloughed on mon and tue.
If they want to take annual leave which includes mon and tue (when they’d be furloughed anyway), does the furlough have to be replaced with holiday allowance?
Can’t find exact guidance on this, my head says no because the gov would effectively be paying for the emp not working due to holiday, rather than not working because of covid?
If they want to take annual leave which includes mon and tue (when they’d be furloughed anyway), does the furlough have to be replaced with holiday allowance?
Can’t find exact guidance on this, my head says no because the gov would effectively be paying for the emp not working due to holiday, rather than not working because of covid?
AF07 said:
Say an employee normally works mon-fri but for now is flexibly furloughed on mon and tue.
If they want to take annual leave which includes mon and tue (when they’d be furloughed anyway), does the furlough have to be replaced with holiday allowance?
Can’t find exact guidance on this, my head says no because the gov would effectively be paying for the emp not working due to holiday, rather than not working because of covid?
Our UK employees were told that if they were on "holiday" while on furlough it came out of their annual vacation entitlement & was not furlough pay. If they want to take annual leave which includes mon and tue (when they’d be furloughed anyway), does the furlough have to be replaced with holiday allowance?
Can’t find exact guidance on this, my head says no because the gov would effectively be paying for the emp not working due to holiday, rather than not working because of covid?
Thanks for the quick replies.
Is there any official guidance this? Specifically stating that if an employee takes holiday on a day they are furloughed anyway, then furlough can still be claimed and they don't need to use their holiday allowance instead?
Also with regards to topping up to 100%, how would this be reflected in their holiday allowance? I assume whatever the 20% equates to in terms of hours, you would deduct that from their allowance?
Is there any official guidance this? Specifically stating that if an employee takes holiday on a day they are furloughed anyway, then furlough can still be claimed and they don't need to use their holiday allowance instead?
Also with regards to topping up to 100%, how would this be reflected in their holiday allowance? I assume whatever the 20% equates to in terms of hours, you would deduct that from their allowance?
GT03ROB said:
Our UK employees were told that if they were on "holiday" while on furlough it came out of their annual vacation entitlement & was not furlough pay.
This is what I was thinking and it made sense, but the counter is if they are not working anyway due to being furloughed, why would they need to book time off using holiday allowance? Edited by AF07 on Thursday 21st January 12:32
Edited by AF07 on Thursday 21st January 12:33
Done some further research:
"The prevailing view of ACAS and the government is that workers will be able to take annual leave during the furlough leave period without it interrupting the furlough period."
"Employers are able to claim 80% of salary paid on holiday days."
So that clears that part up.
Still leaves confusion about the holiday allowance though. If they work 9hrs a day for example, would employer only deduct 20% of that from holiday allowance to reflect the portion they covered to top up to 100%?
"The prevailing view of ACAS and the government is that workers will be able to take annual leave during the furlough leave period without it interrupting the furlough period."
"Employers are able to claim 80% of salary paid on holiday days."
So that clears that part up.
Still leaves confusion about the holiday allowance though. If they work 9hrs a day for example, would employer only deduct 20% of that from holiday allowance to reflect the portion they covered to top up to 100%?
Edited by AF07 on Thursday 21st January 13:13
Matt_E_Mulsion said:
Right at this minute in time I am using up a final day of holiday entitlement from last year, (hence why I'm on PistonHeads). What my employer does is claims the day as Flexible Furlough - 80% covered by the government and the tops the 20% up so my days holiday pay remains the same.
But what happens to that remaining 1 days holiday allowance though? Does your employer use it to cover your day off? If yes then surely that only benefits the employer, because that is 1 less holiday day they need to pay for like they would if you took it any other time, and you lose a days holiday despite not needing to use it (because you were off on furlough anyway).
AF07 said:
But what happens to that remaining 1 days holiday allowance though? Does your employer use it to cover your day off?
If yes then surely that only benefits the employer, because that is 1 less holiday day they need to pay for like they would if you took it any other time, and you lose a days holiday despite not needing to use it (because you were off on furlough anyway).
If you are on flexible furlough you should be available to work. If you can't work for whatever reason you need to book a day off.If yes then surely that only benefits the employer, because that is 1 less holiday day they need to pay for like they would if you took it any other time, and you lose a days holiday despite not needing to use it (because you were off on furlough anyway).
RicksAlfas said:
If you are on flexible furlough you should be available to work. If you can't work for whatever reason you need to book a day off.
That is exactly what I thought hence starting this thread, but above posters have said otherwise and guidance seems to back that up: "workers will be able to take annual leave during the furlough leave period without it interrupting the furlough period. Employers are able to claim 80% of salary paid on holiday days."
And this from FCSA:
"Principally, where an employee is flexibly furloughed, any holiday taken during the relevant claim period should be counted as furloughed hours rather than working hours."
So that makes it pretty clear that if you have a holiday on a day when you are furloughed, you do not need to use holiday allowance.
This thread seems to be mixing two different things up.
1) If you want a day's holiday it will need to be taken from your holiday entitlement and it is paid to the employee at the full 100% rate.
2) The payment for it comes from your employer and if you are furloughed at the time they can claim 80% back from the government.
Any other method would, as already pointed out, mean everyone coming back from furlough would then have a couple of months holiday to use up, a quite absurd situation in comparison to the poor sods who have worked every day all the way through...
1) If you want a day's holiday it will need to be taken from your holiday entitlement and it is paid to the employee at the full 100% rate.
2) The payment for it comes from your employer and if you are furloughed at the time they can claim 80% back from the government.
Any other method would, as already pointed out, mean everyone coming back from furlough would then have a couple of months holiday to use up, a quite absurd situation in comparison to the poor sods who have worked every day all the way through...
chrispmartha said:
Why would they want to waste holiday allowance when they are on Furlough?
That was my thinking, I was on furlough for several months then ultimately got made redundant. I kept my annual leave which was paid in leu. Pointless taking leave if you can carry it over or expect redundancy might be on the cards. Possibly worth taking it if you're going to lose the entitlement as you might as well get the additional 20%RicksAlfas said:
At some point the world is going to get going again, but everyone will be on holiday as they have two years allowance built up!!
Not quite as simple as that. The changes says "Where it is not reasonably practicable for a worker to take some, or all, of the holiday to which they are entitled due to the coronavirus, they have a right to carry the 4 weeks under regulation 13 into the next 2 leave years."Just because an employee can't actually go anywhere does not mean it is not practicable for an employee to take holiday.
Ean218 said:
This thread seems to be mixing two different things up.
1) If you want a day's holiday it will need to be taken from your holiday entitlement and it is paid to the employee at the full 100% rate.
2) The payment for it comes from your employer and if you are furloughed at the time they can claim 80% back from the government.
Any other method would, as already pointed out, mean everyone coming back from furlough would then have a couple of months holiday to use up, a quite absurd situation in comparison to the poor sods who have worked every day all the way through...
This ^^^, holiday and furlough are 2 separate things. The Governments Furlough payment calculator doesn't request details of holiday days taken because it's not relevant.1) If you want a day's holiday it will need to be taken from your holiday entitlement and it is paid to the employee at the full 100% rate.
2) The payment for it comes from your employer and if you are furloughed at the time they can claim 80% back from the government.
Any other method would, as already pointed out, mean everyone coming back from furlough would then have a couple of months holiday to use up, a quite absurd situation in comparison to the poor sods who have worked every day all the way through...
Making it simple. If someone has been on furlough for a full year (assuming the scheme ran for a full year with no changes in terms) then that person would get 100% or 80% (depending on company policy, we're paying 100%) of their annual pay from their employer, the employer would get 80% of the annual salary from the scheme.
In that year the employee still uses up their holiday allowance as normal. It's irrelevant that they can't go anywhere, they could spend 4 weeks doing DIY or whatever.
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