Adult social services - care contributions
Discussion
Hi, need some help here!
My 90 year old father has had self funded care for the last 18 months. He now has a live in carer which is costing him over £4K a month.
He just about has enough money left to cover his own funeral costs. We have been advised that social services will not fund a live in carer. The most they have agreed to pay is about £200 a week for home help. (14 hours a week)
So, it looks like the council will have to put a charge on his house, which is fair enough.
How does this work, then? Do we get his house valued first and that figure is used, or do they value it after his death? Can they take the whole lot?
By the way, I don’t want an argument about the rights, wrongs, morals, etc (there has been more than enough threads on that)
Just facts please.
My 90 year old father has had self funded care for the last 18 months. He now has a live in carer which is costing him over £4K a month.
He just about has enough money left to cover his own funeral costs. We have been advised that social services will not fund a live in carer. The most they have agreed to pay is about £200 a week for home help. (14 hours a week)
So, it looks like the council will have to put a charge on his house, which is fair enough.
How does this work, then? Do we get his house valued first and that figure is used, or do they value it after his death? Can they take the whole lot?
By the way, I don’t want an argument about the rights, wrongs, morals, etc (there has been more than enough threads on that)
Just facts please.
When I was in your position and was in dispute with the Council over care costs, they just helped themselves to a charge on the house. I didn't find out about it until afterwards, even as Attorney. That's the power they have.
If your father actually needs a live-in carer and his savings are less than £x (I can't recall the figure) then my understanding is that the Council has a duty of care to see that he is safe and adequately looked after. Whether that's at his home or in a care home is a moot point. It seems they've assessed him and decided 14 hours a week is enough.
The disconnect for me is that you say a live-in carer costs over £48K a year. I'm quite sure the carer doesn't get £48K - where is the rest going? Can you find an alternative?
In answer to your question, I've no doubt they can. My Council was utterly ruthless and singularly unpleasant about it. I think you should seek advice from AgeUK or similar to find out where you stand. Are you claiming Attendance Allowance? https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance
I can only wish you good luck.
If your father actually needs a live-in carer and his savings are less than £x (I can't recall the figure) then my understanding is that the Council has a duty of care to see that he is safe and adequately looked after. Whether that's at his home or in a care home is a moot point. It seems they've assessed him and decided 14 hours a week is enough.
The disconnect for me is that you say a live-in carer costs over £48K a year. I'm quite sure the carer doesn't get £48K - where is the rest going? Can you find an alternative?
In answer to your question, I've no doubt they can. My Council was utterly ruthless and singularly unpleasant about it. I think you should seek advice from AgeUK or similar to find out where you stand. Are you claiming Attendance Allowance? https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance
I can only wish you good luck.
Thanks John.
Yes, it seems the council are totally ruthless. Also incompetent! We have been trying to get this sorted since last September. We just get pushed from pillar to post. They promise to ring back but never do.
You are right about live in care costs. We have a company organising this. It would be cheaper to arrange our own but that would mean finding cover for holidays etc. Also, we wouldn’t know how to choose one.
He does need live in care now. He was having so many falls, it was unsafe for him to be alone in the house.
Thanks again for the help. Hopefully catch up with you later in the year
Yes, it seems the council are totally ruthless. Also incompetent! We have been trying to get this sorted since last September. We just get pushed from pillar to post. They promise to ring back but never do.
You are right about live in care costs. We have a company organising this. It would be cheaper to arrange our own but that would mean finding cover for holidays etc. Also, we wouldn’t know how to choose one.
He does need live in care now. He was having so many falls, it was unsafe for him to be alone in the house.
Thanks again for the help. Hopefully catch up with you later in the year
Op, I'm not an expert but both my parents have needed and continue to receive some type of care service.
The cost of your dad's live in carer seems very high but maybe this is the premium you pay as a private firm obviously wants some margin in the charges. My dad was in a very good nursing home till he passed last year and the costs were circa £40k per year hence why I feel £48k is a lot for a live in carer but I know it's not cheap.
I can't remember the exact figure but if a person's total assets value are more than £23k (ballpark figure) then I think the local authority are allowed to include those assets when they assess financial contributions.
Was the care agency organised via the local authority or independently by yourself? If you organised the care independently then I can't see how the LA can put a charge on the property however if it was via the LA then understand why it might be included in their assessment.
Edit: ignore my question at top of last paragraph, I see the care was organised via LA.
Hope you get it sorted, I know it's a minefield as I went through it with both parents but as the appointee or deputy if you have questions the LA should be answering them so keep pressing them till they provide some responses and good luck.
The cost of your dad's live in carer seems very high but maybe this is the premium you pay as a private firm obviously wants some margin in the charges. My dad was in a very good nursing home till he passed last year and the costs were circa £40k per year hence why I feel £48k is a lot for a live in carer but I know it's not cheap.
I can't remember the exact figure but if a person's total assets value are more than £23k (ballpark figure) then I think the local authority are allowed to include those assets when they assess financial contributions.
Was the care agency organised via the local authority or independently by yourself? If you organised the care independently then I can't see how the LA can put a charge on the property however if it was via the LA then understand why it might be included in their assessment.
Edit: ignore my question at top of last paragraph, I see the care was organised via LA.
Hope you get it sorted, I know it's a minefield as I went through it with both parents but as the appointee or deputy if you have questions the LA should be answering them so keep pressing them till they provide some responses and good luck.
Edited by VR99 on Saturday 23 January 10:59
Grandad Gaz said:
Yes, it seems the council are totally ruthless. Also incompetent!We have been trying to get this sorted since last September. We just get pushed from pillar to post. They promise to ring back but never do.
Keep everything in writing. The frontline of social services (carers) are OK but underpaid and overworked; the higher up you go the nastier and more arrogant they get. I was very fortunate to get the support of a Councillor who was able to attack the director from the rear, as it were. They really do treat you like s
t - I attended a meeting at the care home with three young women from social services; the cows effectively ignored me and refused even to shake my hand.Grandad Gaz said:
He does need live in care now. He was having so many falls, it was unsafe for him to be alone in the house.
You may find that a care home is an option to consider. If he's exhausted savings the Council should either place him in a council care home, or pay a proportion of the cost of a private one. If he's deemed to need nursing care as opposed to social care then there's a thing called 'continuous care' where the Council have it pay it all - but it's hard to qualify for. At least, that's how it was in my county 10 years ago. Some counties are better than others; mine have a reputation as bds.Sadly you need to be ready for a fight and to defend the best interests of your father. Find out the rules.
Grandad Gaz said:
Thanks again for the help. Hopefully catch up with you later in the year
Looking forward to it If your father is to move to a care home then he (you if you have POA) should sell the house** and fund his care directly.
That way you can choose the care home and make sure that he has the best. Otherwise I *think* that the council can choose.
When/if the house-sale money runs out, the council is obligated to continue funding your father's care, usually in the same facility.
That way you can choose the care home and make sure that he has the best. Otherwise I *think* that the council can choose.
When/if the house-sale money runs out, the council is obligated to continue funding your father's care, usually in the same facility.
- - you don't say whether anyone else lives with your father so this suggestion may be invalid.
Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it
As daimlerv8 says, live in care is not as cheap as you would think!
We have had no help from the LA at all. They only became involved last September when we realised he was running out of money and we have been hounding them ever since.
A care home is the last resort. He wants to stay at home for as long as possible.
If he does need to go into care, then the house would have to be sold or left empty until he dies. Renting it out would not be possible without doing a lot of work to bring it up to standard, something I wouldn’t want to do go through if it’s only the council that benefit from it!
No one else lives in the house, apart from the carer. My mum has been in a home with severe dementia for two years. The social services have been footing the bill for about a year, after she used up all her savings (except what she was allowed to keep)
Thanks again for your thoughts
As daimlerv8 says, live in care is not as cheap as you would think!
We have had no help from the LA at all. They only became involved last September when we realised he was running out of money and we have been hounding them ever since.
A care home is the last resort. He wants to stay at home for as long as possible.
If he does need to go into care, then the house would have to be sold or left empty until he dies. Renting it out would not be possible without doing a lot of work to bring it up to standard, something I wouldn’t want to do go through if it’s only the council that benefit from it!
No one else lives in the house, apart from the carer. My mum has been in a home with severe dementia for two years. The social services have been footing the bill for about a year, after she used up all her savings (except what she was allowed to keep)
Thanks again for your thoughts
The local authority should supply you with some papers so you can do a 'financial assessment' of your relative.
As has been said, if the cash/savings/premium bonds, come to under 23K then they should chip in for some of the costs.
It's quite detailed and they want the last six months of bank statements to check if you've sidelined a load of cash elsewhere.
As has been said, if the cash/savings/premium bonds, come to under 23K then they should chip in for some of the costs.
It's quite detailed and they want the last six months of bank statements to check if you've sidelined a load of cash elsewhere.
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